No Henderson in the provisional squad 

I'll just leave this here quietly but kane will end up with the golden boot on Sunday!

8 minutes ago, W.cramp said:

I'll just leave this here quietly but kane will end up with the golden boot on Sunday!

It would be one of those lovely twists of fate if he did.

Much maligned and criticised for his performances and mocked for not winning anything.

If he does and that contributes to our trophy win, then like Southgate, he should go down in history as one of the best.

19 minutes ago, W.cramp said:

I'll just leave this here quietly but kane will end up with the golden boot on Sunday!

aye, him and olmo both on 3, does that show how bad this tournament has been?

must be one of the lowest golden boot?

Will be in a bar in Stockholm with a couple of Scotchers, a few Swedes and a couple of Spaniards.

Same group I was with when we lost to Iceland in 2016.

10 hours ago, Ruba Mustafa said:

All these moron pundits really piss me off

now we’ve got to the final they should be forced to apologise for all the crap they spouted earlier in the tourny 

we’ve done the business and that’s all that matters

as footballers they should know that.

they’ve all had their chance to win it n fucked it up

they won’t apologise tho

rant over 😩

It's their job. Discuss the game before them, and point out the good and bad points.

We've been pish in the earlier stages, and everyone could see that.

Yes, we're through, and everyone is happy, doesn't mean no one can offer criticism. 

10 hours ago, gonzo said:

If they'd have all said it was all rainbows and reachrounds they'd have been castigated by the viewing public.

I've not seen anything that's been unfair by any of em.

This.

A spade is a spade- they were full of praise last night, and rightly so. 

 

51 minutes ago, DazBob said:

First half, last night was our best 45 mins of the tournament. Southgate then brought on Shaw and I thought it'd mean we'd be even better due to having a left foot on that side... but we seemed to revert back to how we've played for most of the tournament.

Couldn't work out if that was down to us or if we have to give credit to the Dutch for making that happen.

Felt like we were hanging on a bit towards the end and that eventually they'd score from a cross or corner.

Enter Palmer and Watkins! My dad and I nearly jumped through the ceiling when Watkins slammed that goal in. What a finish.

Would really love to see either Watkins or Toney start in the final as Kane is a passenger at the moment. Not gonna happen though.

Regardless, we're in another final. Let's hope we play at our best and Spain have a bit of an off-day. Come on England!

 

Koeman made a tactical change at half-time which stopped us playing as freely as we had in the first half

7 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Koeman made a tactical change at half-time which stopped us playing as freely as we had in the first half

Bellingham spent a lot of time in an unnatural position of wide on the left.

It seemed to inhibit Shaw from overlapping, but perhaps it also stopped the Dutch from having any significant attacking threat down that side.

JB did say afterwards that "I couldn't manage another 30 minues"- obviously a hit tongue in cheek, but he's clearly a bit knackered. 

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Bellingham spent a lot of time in an unnatural position of wide on the left.

It seemed to inhibit Shaw from overlapping, but perhaps it also stopped the Dutch from having any significant attacking threat down that side.

JB did say afterwards that "I couldn't manage another 30 minues"- obviously a hit tongue in cheek, but he's clearly a bit knackered. 

He's had a very long season

Thankfully, he only needs to do it once more

1 hour ago, desperado said:

Magical night. 

There’s a feel it’s just written in the stars this year, last minute goals, penalty shoot out wins, winning playing poorly, slow burners coming good at the right time, criticised manager coming good, game changing subs doing the business.

I said yesterday great managers are lucky managers too at times. It’s what you do with those opportunities when they arise.

The Palmer/Watkins moment is great reward for Southgate.

I also love how so many players feel part of this big squad and how they have contributed. 

They talked on the analysis about how he’s prepped them to be ready when called upon and how valuable everybody’s contribution is.

A tricky and brilliant bit of man-management.

Neville said, when you take into account his playing and management days, there has never been a more experienced Englishman in tournament football.

And he’s using that experience, intelligently, wisely and effectively to get the results.

If ever there was a case for giving time to judge a manager, then there is no better example than Southgate for England. That’s not to say the criticism this tournament is unwarranted, I’ve given it myself.

But That tournament record is fantastic. Yes I’d probably swap with Italy, just to get a tournament win, but whether it’s a R/U or W going into 2024, I think it’s time to say what a fantastic manager he has been.

He wins, probably the best.

Come on Sir Gareth, lead these troops to victory! 👏🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

Whoa brother! There's a massive gap in gravitas between winning a World Cup and a Euros. We will see if he can even win the inferior Euros on Sunday when he comes up against the standout team.

If he manages it, he then only has to win a World Cup to be the greatest ever. According to his disciples, should be a piece of piss.

10 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

Whoa brother! There's a massive gap in gravitas between winning a World Cup and a Euros. We will see if he can even win the inferior Euros on Sunday when he comes up against the standout team.

If he manages it, he then only has to win a World Cup to be the greatest ever. According to his disciples, should be a piece of piss.

I agree, if you didn’t experience our win in 66 it’s impossible to explain the feeling but from World Cup Willie to “They think it’s all over” it was absolutely magical and however good this is it doesn’t anywhere near compare for me but that’s not to take anything away from where we are so let’s finish the job on Sunday and finally bring it home? 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🥳🏆

5 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

Whoa brother! There's a massive gap in gravitas between winning a World Cup and a Euros. We will see if he can even win the inferior Euros on Sunday when he comes up against the standout team.

If he manages it, he then only has to win a World Cup to be the greatest ever. According to his disciples, should be a piece of piss.

If I’m rational about it you’re probably right pal. World Cup more gravitas, can’t argue there.

And we all know we’re massive underdogs Sunday, Spain been by far the best team.

So the best England manager claims are very previous at this stage.

However….. being rational and a Football fan isn’t much fun 🤩 

Spain are clearly the better team but I think it will suit us being underdogs. 

Might just be our time.

12 hours ago, Ruba Mustafa said:

All these moron pundits really piss me off

now we’ve got to the final they should be forced to apologise for all the crap they spouted earlier in the tourny 

we’ve done the business and that’s all that matters

as footballers they should know that.

they’ve all had their chance to win it n fucked it up

they won’t apologise tho

rant over 😩

The pundits were right though and at the end of the day that is their job.

Neville, on many occasions throughout the tournament has been very honest in saying many England teams before have “fucked it up”.

Apart from the first half yesterday they have been awful and unbelievably lucky. Nobody can deny that. 

I guess they were told to rein it in after their criticism of the group games. It definately lessened yet the performances barely improved. 

It’s typical of this piss weak society we live in.

Previous Managers and players, have quite rightly got some right stick and they don’t know they’re born these days.

Anyway somehow they are in the Final and on the verge of becoming national heroes.

They will have to play much better though to beat the Spanish.

Fingers crossed anyway. 
 

Edited July 11, 20241 yr by captainmed

I’ve always been of the belief that players sometimes struggle against perceived weaker teams where expectation is greatest but bring on the better teams and the good players raise their game and I believe that’s what our players did last night and will do again on Sunday. It’s coming home this time, no question the boys can do it.

5 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

I’ve always been of the belief that players sometimes struggle against perceived weaker teams where expectation is greatest but bring on the better teams and the good players raise their game and I believe that’s what our players did last night and will do again on Sunday. It’s coming home this time, no question the boys can do it.

Make no mistake we have big game players with big game mentalities.

4-5 champions league winners in ranks, premier league and FA Cup winners.

This lot shouldn't be phased, a lot have played at the biggest of stage including euro finals.

 

A lot of the anti Southgate mob are saying we should be pissing it with this squad. Personally I think the squads around 2004 were better. 

6 minutes ago, royal white said:

A lot of the anti Southgate mob are saying we should be pissing it with this squad. Personally I think the squads around 2004 were better. 

he'll never be able to win

lose his fault, win it's to be expected 

 

3 hours ago, W.cramp said:

I'll just leave this here quietly but kane will end up with the golden boot on Sunday!

The clamour for him being dropped is quite startling, I must say. 1 goal away from top scorer. Still our best chance of a goal. 

Fans of other countries don't have the same demands to drop their best players. Do France drop Mbappe when he's had a couple of quiet games (but still scored)?

Plus, you need energy, pace and willing off the bench. If Shaw can do 90, he's the only change for me.

Would make one change for Sunday with Shaw coming in for Trippier 

Foden had his best game last night and really shouldn't drop Kane 

But we know we've got the players on the bench to change things up when required 

2 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Bellingham spent a lot of time in an unnatural position of wide on the left.

It seemed to inhibit Shaw from overlapping, but perhaps it also stopped the Dutch from having any significant attacking threat down that side.

JB did say afterwards that "I couldn't manage another 30 minues"- obviously a hit tongue in cheek, but he's clearly a bit knackered. 

Jude did a great job last night. Protected Trippier from Dumfries (who offered nothing in open play, except for being lucky not to be sent off in the first half) and provided some width when Tripper was pinned.

Worked his socks off, retained the ball brilliantly and helped us control the tempo when he needed to.

Nowadays, we're so fixated on headline stats like G/A, we don't look at the bigger picture. He is a wonderful player and did his team a proper solid last night

2 minutes ago, Zico said:

Would make one change for Sunday with Shaw coming in for Trippier 

Foden had his best game last night and really shouldn't drop Kane 

But we know we've got the players on the bench to change things up when required 

with Shaw coming on at HT, i'd fully expect him to start now 

 

2 minutes ago, boltonboris said:

Jude did a great job last night. Protected Trippier from Dumfries (who offered nothing in open play, except for being lucky not to be sent off in the first half) and provided some width when Tripper was pinned.

Worked his socks off, retained the ball brilliantly and helped us control the tempo when he needed to.

Nowadays, we're so fixated on headline stats like G/A, we don't look at the bigger picture. He is a wonderful player and did his team a proper solid last night

Was a captains performance for me. No headlines or wonder strikes. Just box to box, wing to wing adding cover and just being a big fuck off presence.

Like you allude to, folk see his headlines for Real and expect him bowling about like Ronaldo every time he plays.

 

2 hours ago, Whitesince63 said:

I agree, if you didn’t experience our win in 66 it’s impossible to explain the feeling but from World Cup Willie to “They think it’s all over” it was absolutely magical and however good this is it doesn’t anywhere near compare for me but that’s not to take anything away from where we are so let’s finish the job on Sunday and finally bring it home? 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🥳🏆

OK - I'll bite.

What is never mentioned these days is how lucky England were in 1966 on top of everything being in our favour and how controversial the win actually was throughout the world, if not in England with our media - and I'm not just talking about the Russian linesman in the final.

First of all, there were only 16 teams in the finals - which was boycotted by the African nations due to the group winners being told by FIFA they had to play an extra pre-finals qualification round, so that let in North Korea and Portugal (their first finals)

All 6 England matches were played at Wembley - massive advantage.

Our win against Argentina in the quarter final is still referred to in South America as "the robbery of the century". Captain Rattin (slaughtered in the English press) was sent off for approaching the German referee (who didn't speak Spanish) about a foul given against a team mate and pointing to his captain's armband and gesticulating to ask for a translator. The ref - and this was before the days of yellow/red cards - sent him off and was reported to later say that it was because he didn't like Rattin's demeanour. WTF??? Imagine that these days! Only after this happened that that Rattin refused to leave and it got nasty. Argentinian press claimed collusion between the Europeans (of the 26 officials in the 66 WC, 20 were European) and the British press claimed the Argentinians were animals (Ramsey). Our winning goal against their 10 men was offside but allowed to stand - embarassing but we were happy to take it. Ramsey's comments on the Argies was reported throughout South America and was the catalyst for the ill-feeling against England that we felt 4 years later in Mexico and still persists. Never an issue before Ramsey.

We were  lucky against Portugal with golden boot winner Eusabio (9 goals BTW) coming very close on several occasions.

The final itself wasn't without controversy.

England's total of eleven goals scored in six games set a new record low for average goals per game scored by a World Cup winning team.

All in all, Ramsey benefited from the 66 WC being a smaller tournament, some big slices of luck, playing all the games at home in front of very partisan crowds and some "favourable" refereeing - not that I'm complaining because it was wonderful - but these are factors that should be brought into play if you want to make an objective, rather than rose-tinted comparison with what Southgate has (consistently) achieved.

I know Ramsey is deified and any criticism is vilified, but they are the facts rather than criticism.

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 20241 yr by Wanderlust

5 minutes ago, L/H White said:

I'd forgotten about Campbell in 04, I always think about the one he had disallowed in 98 instead.

No wonder he's bitter!