Euro 24

[Cheese]

4 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said:

So you think that because we won it's carry on regardless

You can learn things from achieving a goal and still think things could have been done better

No. I'm just saying we won.

Are you suggesting we change the manager mid-tournament because our performance in the first game wasn't up to your liking, even though we won?

[DirtySanchez]

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

No. I'm just saying we won.

Are you suggesting we change the manager mid-tournament because our performance in the first game wasn't up to your liking, even though we won?

No 

Where have I even suggested that? 

That's some leap from criticising tactics to wanting to change manager 

I'm saying whilst we won, we could have tactically done things better as you can learn things from a win 

[L/H White]

54 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

100% when it comes to fine detail & in game management I expect Southgate to come second best.. like he did last night after a decent first 30 minutes the game changed completely and he had no answer. 

Remind you of anyone?

[Wanderlust]

1 minute ago, L/H White said:

Remind you of anyone?

Yup - a man who frequently says "stick with the process" i.e. keep doing the same stuff only do it better.

And TBF a lot of England players got sloppy after we'd taken the lead instead of fighting even harder and reasserting their control. Which reminds me of another team......

[kent_white]

In days gone by - we'd have lost or at least drawn that game. 

Whilst we didn't play well - we pretty much limited them to shots from outside the box. 

Plenty of room for improvement - but that's fine. I do worry about Trent in CM mind. Be very surprised if Southgate plays him there if we get through the group and come up against stronger opposition. 

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said:

No 

Where have I even suggested that? 

That's some leap from criticising tactics to wanting to change manager 

I'm saying whilst we won, we could have tactically done things better as you can learn things from a win 

What do you mean by "carry on regardless" then? How else can we carry on?

If Southgate had made your preferred hind-sight subs last night and we'd conceded from a counter attack, you'd be criticising him even more than you are today. Any team can play sublime football and lose a game, or play like shite and win. We can speculate on what might've happened or what might happen in the future all we want, but all that matters is - we won.

[DirtySanchez]

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

What do you mean by "carry on regardless" then? How else can we carry on?

If Southgate had made your preferred hind-sight subs last night and we'd conceded from a counter attack, you'd be criticising him even more than you are today. Any team can play sublime football and lose a game, or play like shite and win. We can speculate on what might've happened or what might happen in the future all we want, but all that matters is - we won.

Carry on regardless as in keep making the same or lack of tactical decisions depending on how the game is going 

They weren't hindsight suggestions as I was watching the game. You'll probably say because I didn't post it online here I didn't think it though 

Yes we won, in your happy clapper world that's fine, I'd just prefer we make changes to reflect how the game is going 

[ZiggyStardust]

3 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said:

Carry on regardless as in keep making the same or lack of tactical decisions depending on how the game is going 

They weren't hindsight suggestions as I was watching the game. You'll probably say because I didn't post it online here I didn't think it though 

Yes we won, in your happy clapper world that's fine, I'd just prefer we make changes to reflect how the game is going 

You are midding the quite obvious point here.

We won.

Therefore there can be no critisism at all. Because we won.

Its almost as if the next game doesn't exist.

 

[Cheese]

Incredible. Wonder if any other country's fans spit their dummies out after a win at a major tournament? Mind boggling.

[1969]

4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Incredible. Wonder if any other country's fans spit their dummies out after a win at a major tournament? Mind boggling.

Not mind boggling we were fortunate to see the game out and most fans could see that we underperformed.

Improvement is a must if we have any chance of winning it

[Mounts Kipper]

8 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Incredible. Wonder if any other country's fans spit their dummies out after a win at a major tournament? Mind boggling.

No one spitting dummies out just pointing out we were shit, lucky to win and second best for long period after 35 minutes. 

[Wanderlust]

Not sure if I misheard the commentary or not but I though I heard someone say that England's recent record in first games of tournament finals was one win in the last ten prior to last night. If that's right we are showing improvement and the win is meaningful.

But Sanchez has the right to suggest how we might improve - and hopefully the manager is also thinking along those lines.

As regards further improvement I'm undecided. On the one hand it makes some sense to play Bellingham deeper, move Foden to his natural 10 and try to sort out the left side attack - where Grealish would have been perfect for the job IMO but...

Last night's poor performance by some players muddied the waters as regards the system - and I'm inclined to agree with Fabregas to some extent i.e. it's not the system, it's the players losing focus that's the problem. Surely Phil Foden is a good enough player to be able to impact the game wherever he plays across the front? Can Bowen find a role for himself - because he was excellent again when he came on even if most of his work was defensive? And can someone give a Trent a kick up the ass for strolling around making lazy passes which were either genius or dogshit?

Like the Wanderers, we have the players to do the particular job in hand but they have to perform for 90 minutes for it to work

[tomski]

See I sit on complete different sides on the Southgate and Evatt debate.

I think in game tactics, yes there will be similarities.

I think Southgate has them proud to be there and playing for England which is half the battle in a national team role.

I also think he says all the right things and is quite humble and likeable.

Hes shown he can adapt and drop his tried and tested. A Criticism that’s been volleyed at him numerous times.

He’s the best England manager outside Sir Alf (and Big Sam) statistically. If he wins the Euros then he will be the best. It was interesting that the pool of managers he sits in with England are now all Sirs. 
 

I don’t think we have the best squad as others believe. I will say these lot are all committed to wearing the badge though and that comes from Southgate and his people
 

[DirtySanchez]

42 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Incredible. Wonder if any other country's fans spit their dummies out after a win at a major tournament? Mind boggling.

Nobody is spitting their dummy out, that's just another of your over reactions to try a labour a point 

As I've said you can achieve a goal, in whatever walk of life, and if you just think I did it when you know it could have been done better then how are you expected to progress? 

[DirtySanchez]

50 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Incredible. Wonder if any other country's fans spit their dummies out after a win at a major tournament? Mind boggling.

Ok say we play San Marino and win 1-0 with a 90th minute own goal, would you just think we won? 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, kent_white said:

In days gone by - we'd have lost or at least drawn that game. 

Whilst we didn't play well - we pretty much limited them to shots from outside the box. 

Plenty of room for improvement - but that's fine. I do worry about Trent in CM mind. Be very surprised if Southgate plays him there if we get through the group and come up against stronger opposition. 

Trent was a bit off it, though the packed defence initially made it hard to get passes through. 

We just became increasingly ponderous, lacked any significant press, and let them have possession. 

Like the final last time, all over again.

Fortunately, we got away with it.

I think the defence looked generally solid which was good.

[Mantra]

The win was underwhelming and boring which is my main gripe. Other teams have had big wins and we are just as capable as them.

We should’ve really had the game out of sight with that Walker cross and the Kane header.

I can only think we sat off them by design after going 1-0 up either to:

- prevent playing into their hands by letting them counter us with a sucker punch,

- or just not to tire everyone out by pressing for 90 mins.

It would’ve been nice if we had maintained the energy we showed in  the first 15 minutes  and gone in for the kill, just to get the confidence flowing.
 

But I guess it gave our makeshift defence some good match experience of working together to defend the box.

Southgate's cautious approach has taken us far before so have to trust he can do it again, it’s perhaps more important this time with the state of the defence. Excited to see the lads who didn’t get a chance last night have a go in the team. Gordon, Palmer, Eze, Wharton in particular.

I think Watkins’ pace would’ve been far more useful last night in the second half so it was a shame he didn’t get a look in. 

 

[gonzo]

Surely there's a shout for bringing on Watkins late on like you say if Kane insists on playing so deep.

[Cheese]

20 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said:

Ok say we play San Marino and win 1-0 with a 90th minute own goal, would you just think we won? 

Yes. During last night's game I thought "this is shite" - but I've thought that many times watching Bolton and England over the past few decades and still been delighted at the final whistle. What would have been an acceptable scoreline for you last night? 2-0? 6-0?

Edited June 17, 2024 by Cheese

[DirtySanchez]

Just now, Cheese said:

Yes. During last night's game I thought "this is shite" - but I've thought that many times watching Bolton over the past few decades and still been delighted at the final whistle. What would have been an acceptable scoreline for you last night? 2-0? 6-0?

Do you ever in your life think I could have done better? 

[Cheese]

4 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said:

Do you ever in your life think I could have done better? 

Of course. But I don't rely on 11 other people to achieve my goals for me.

Edited June 17, 2024 by Cheese

[DirtySanchez]

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

Of course. But I don't rely on 11 other people to achieve my goals for me.

So you agree things could be done better, not just a case of i got there

Thanks for agreeing with me 

[DazBob]

1 hour ago, 1969 said:

Not mind boggling we were fortunate to see the game out

How were we fortunate?  What luck went our way?

[Cheese]

10 minutes ago, DirtySanchez said:

So you agree things could be done better, not just a case of i got there

Thanks for agreeing with me 

If we'd won 6-0, I'm sure there'd still be things that could have been done better. It's football, not engineering or medical science. All that matters is winning. It's amazing to me that you think you know better than the actual manager. After a win. Blows my mind.

Edited June 17, 2024 by Cheese

[Zico]

yeah "we won"

but the side lacked balance and important players like Foden and Kane were pretty anonymous and TAA didn't look like a midfielder, so I'm not sure it went to plan based on the starting line up

so it will be interesting to see if

a) GS tweaks the line up for the next game to look to get those who didn't play well more involved

b) he sticks with the same line up and makes it absolutely clear to the players this is how are playing and training focuses on getting these players to perform better in that system

c) he thinks "we won" so doesn't change anything and approaches the next game in the same way he approached last night

C is not going to get us far in the tournament