Rotherham United (A)

[jeep]

44 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Dorking away

Very good.....👋

[desperado]

4 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Just when will our board do the blatantly obvious. Thank him and wish him the best, most of us will do the same. 

With each passing failure, more and more people are becoming disengaged. Like you, I’d like to thank him and move on

[thebells]

1 hour ago, Greg_BWFC said:

Good points and I'm going to pick out a bit of point 5.

You're right to suggest that we are a great draw for a potential manager.

Stadium, some real talent in the squad - as unbalanced as I think it is.

And the support has been fantastic. 20K plus crowds with what, over 16K season tickets ?

The last bit is what I think might make the board sit up and think.

Honestly think come renewal time we might see numbers drop as much as 50%.

Reading posts since yesterday, it seems we're all pretty much aligned on here.

Think the fanbase may be at a tipping point with regard to the manager.

Fair point.
 

They usually use Feb 1st as the announcement date for these tickets. Wouldn’t be surprised this time if they delay it to avoid your scenario.

[victor meldrew]

4 minutes ago, thebells said:

Fair point.
 

They usually use Feb 1st as the announcement date for these tickets. Wouldn’t be surprised this time if they delay it to avoid your scenario.

I believe there is also a new option, the no show season ticket , which still count as super fan status 

[bwfc4ife]

Surely Sharon must see it and feel it though?

He lost the majority of the fan base weeks ago. There’s no coming back from that no matter how much you spin it. 

Aside from all the great things she and FV have done so far, if they cannot see the obvious with Evatt then I begin to seriously question their suitability to take us forward. 

I think the current situation is based purely on hope, same with the backing in the window so far.

It’s nothing short of naivety and not what you’d come to expect from experienced business people. It’s a major worry.

[Cheese]

12 minutes ago, bwfc4ife said:

Surely Sharon must see it and feel it though?

He lost the majority of the fan base weeks ago. There’s no coming back from that no matter how much you spin it. 

Aside from all the great things she and FV have done so far, if they cannot see the obvious with Evatt then I begin to seriously question their suitability to take us forward. 

I think the current situation is based purely on hope, same with the backing in the window so far.

It’s nothing short of naivety and not what you’d come to expect from experienced business people. It’s a major worry.

A manager can be sacked and replaced within days/weeks. Owners... not so much. Anyone calling for Sharon/FV to go is thick as fuck.

Edited January 12 by Cheese

[bwfc4ife]

11 minutes ago, Cheese said:

A manager can be sacked and replaced within days/weeks. Owners... not so much. Anyone calling for Sharon/FV to go is thick as fuck.

I don’t think anyone’s calling for that and I’m not either. I just think it’s worth noting that their naivety is starting to shine through hugely and it’s got to be a worry given the current climate. 

[Cheese]

7 minutes ago, bwfc4ife said:

I don’t think anyone’s calling for that and I’m not either. I just think it’s worth noting that their naivety is starting to shine through hugely and it’s got to be a worry given the current climate. 

Wasn't suggesting you were. If poor results were a reason to get 'worried' about owners who haven't really put a foot wrong, the vast majority of fans in the football league would be permanently singing "sack the board".

Edited January 12 by Cheese

[JimmyRiddle]

Had a nice drive to Exeter today to drop the lad back of at Uni. Got more frustrated thinking about things while he was kipping on the M5 than I did watching it yesterday.

With regards to mental fragility thing, in any normal organisation as a senior manager you would be dragged in eventually if all you staff were failing to deliver their objectives because of your strategy, and getting work related stress because of you!! 

How the idiot can say nothing would change with a different manager beggars belief. They are fragile because of the formation and style of football he insists on, it makes them that way. 

If he tightened up at the back, got a few boring 0-0s if needed, generate a resilience then move back on to the attacking bit, I'm certain the players would respond. BSA did this several times in the Prem when we were in the middle of a bad run.

Not Evatt, just throws a strop and insists he's right! He is thin skinned, not half as intelligent as he thinks he is, and has an ego clearly too big for his receipts!!

How a high achieving experienced busines exec like Sharon can't see through his utter bluff and bollocks just staggers me tbh.

Sack the prick now.

PS. The sideways and backwards chant probably proper riles him. More of this plz.

Edited January 12 by JimmyRiddle

[Johnnyrotten]

3 hours ago, desperado said:

 

Now that we’ve all agreed it’s time for a new manager, it’s good to find a topic that we are poles apart on 😂

I suspect it will be the new order of debate before and eventually after we get a change of manager.

Just how good are these players? 

For the record, the players aren't woefully short IMO as in they are all bottom half L1 players (although some undoubtedly are).  But as a collective, my genuine opinion is that whoever the manager is, he won't get them close to winning those "big" games we all talk about that we never win. 

I could see this squad, with the right manager, beating Cambridge 6-0 and winning 4-0 at Shrewsbury.  I don't see how we go to Huddersfield, Wrexham, Barnsley, Wigan with these players and get a really positive performance, a scoring draw minimum - they will just brush us aside physically and have more pace and direct play than us.  We'll play the nice football, hardly shoot because they don't have that skillset, and the opposition will put a proper cross in and a big striker will rise at the back post to nod one in, or outpace us down the middle.  Its what wins the bigger games in this league, and this squad doesn't possess it IMO, thanks to IE.

[Dr. Feelgood]

1 hour ago, JimmyRiddle said:

How the idiot can say nothing would change with a different manager beggars belief.

I've gone out of my way NOT to read or hear any of his shite from yesterday.

Did he ACTUALLY say this ?

[Alf Hartigan]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

I've gone out of my way NOT to read or hear any of his shite from yesterday.

Did he ACTUALLY say this ?

Yes he did. Awful interview 

[desperado]

18 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

For the record, the players aren't woefully short IMO as in they are all bottom half L1 players (although some undoubtedly are).  But as a collective, my genuine opinion is that whoever the manager is, he won't get them close to winning those "big" games we all talk about that we never win. 

I could see this squad, with the right manager, beating Cambridge 6-0 and winning 4-0 at Shrewsbury.  I don't see how we go to Huddersfield, Wrexham, Barnsley, Wigan with these players and get a really positive performance, a scoring draw minimum - they will just brush us aside physically and have more pace and direct play than us.  We'll play the nice football, hardly shoot because they don't have that skillset, and the opposition will put a proper cross in and a big striker will rise at the back post to nod one in, or outpace us down the middle.  Its what wins the bigger games in this league, and this squad doesn't possess it IMO, thanks to IE.

I think your negativity has got you blinkered here pal.

We’ve gone to Barnsley for the last two seasons with the core of the squad we’ve still got and won twice and drawn one!

I’m not having that they have regressed so much as players that we can’t even “get close to winning big games or even a score draw”!! (obviously this is with the assumption that a new manager comes in and gets the best out of this squad!)

 

Edited January 12 by desperado

[gonzo]

6 hours ago, thebells said:

Been trying to make sense of yesterday and the season, so here’s my two penneth.

1. Yesterday was, in my opinion, worse than Stockport, Huddersfield and Wigan. It’s the first time I’ve seen players going rogue and doing their own thing. I’m not saying this to pass blame to the players, though as professional people they need to shoulder some responsibility, but it’s a clear sign that the structure within the squad has broken.

2. Evatt clearly doesn’t know how to change it. He admitted this himself when he passed blame on to the players. He may be right that they didn’t follow instructions (tend to agree with him here), but the big question is why. He is responsible ultimately for the culture in that squad and across the training ground, and it’s failing. It’s on him and he needs to accept that.   

3. I don’t actually think the players know how to fix it either. I highly doubt they’ve clubbed together and decided to down tools. I do think it’s a combination of issues. Players out of contract (who may have moves lined up - Santos / Baxter) are probably falling 5% short of the required standard. Players who put everything into last season pushing for promotion haven’t found their mojo (Jones, Sheehan, Thomason, Charles, JDC, Etc) and there are new or newish players who are luxuries that we can’t afford to carry in such numbers (Collins / McAtee / Lolos / CMG - and seemingly Randall). On top of that, players like Dempsey, Toal and Forino, who i think were seen as key players, have largely been injured. It’s just a bad mix.

4. The one thing Evatt has always pushed is the process and the structure. His teams, whether some have liked it or not, have had a clear identity. That has gone. I no longer know what our identity is. We used to look to dominate teams and, at times, tear them apart. We now play a system that leaves huge gaps in midfield, doesn’t allow us to dominate games, and simply leaves every game we play as a 50/50 shootout. I can say for almost certain that we wont win both of our upcoming home games. If i had to predict, we will win one and lose one.

5. Looking for positives, i see similarities with us now and where Ipswich were 3 years ago when McKenna came in mid season and where Portsmouth were when Mousinho came in mid season. The squad has a huge amount of talent in it (whether people chose to believe it or not) and is capable of pushing for promotion next season with some changes. Santos and Baxter will go, players like Jones and Arfield need moving out, but theres the core of a very good squad. A lot of managers would love to come and work with this squad, at this stadium in front of 20,000 fans (give or take a few thousand). I think we’re about 5 or 6 games away from writing the season off (I’ll await the dramatic replies of ‘I’ve already written the season off), and then Sharon et al need to decide what they want. I admire her dedication to him, but it’s hard to see anyway this gets turned around. Never really taken to Evatt myself, and i think many feel the same. He’s done a great job taking the club from where it was to where it is, and deserves a lot of credit. Sadly for him, i think these final days are tainting that.

 

Apologies if you’re still reading. More of a blog than a post that 🙂 

That's a belting evaluation.

[thebells]

8 minutes ago, gonzo said:

That's a belting evaluation.

Ah stop it you’ll make me blush ☺️ 

[gonzo]

[Cheese]

7 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Never be able to get my head around that behaviour.

[Big E]

1 hour ago, thebells said:

Ah stop it you’ll make me blush ☺️ 

You are gonna end up locked in a van 

[gonzo]

7 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Never be able to get my head around that behaviour.

Buckle in.

Some have been waiting a long time for this.

[Stig]

8 hours ago, thebells said:

Been trying to make sense of yesterday and the season, so here’s my two penneth.

1. Yesterday was, in my opinion, worse than Stockport, Huddersfield and Wigan. It’s the first time I’ve seen players going rogue and doing their own thing. I’m not saying this to pass blame to the players, though as professional people they need to shoulder some responsibility, but it’s a clear sign that the structure within the squad has broken.

2. Evatt clearly doesn’t know how to change it. He admitted this himself when he passed blame on to the players. He may be right that they didn’t follow instructions (tend to agree with him here), but the big question is why. He is responsible ultimately for the culture in that squad and across the training ground, and it’s failing. It’s on him and he needs to accept that.   

3. I don’t actually think the players know how to fix it either. I highly doubt they’ve clubbed together and decided to down tools. I do think it’s a combination of issues. Players out of contract (who may have moves lined up - Santos / Baxter) are probably falling 5% short of the required standard. Players who put everything into last season pushing for promotion haven’t found their mojo (Jones, Sheehan, Thomason, Charles, JDC, Etc) and there are new or newish players who are luxuries that we can’t afford to carry in such numbers (Collins / McAtee / Lolos / CMG - and seemingly Randall). On top of that, players like Dempsey, Toal and Forino, who i think were seen as key players, have largely been injured. It’s just a bad mix.

4. The one thing Evatt has always pushed is the process and the structure. His teams, whether some have liked it or not, have had a clear identity. That has gone. I no longer know what our identity is. We used to look to dominate teams and, at times, tear them apart. We now play a system that leaves huge gaps in midfield, doesn’t allow us to dominate games, and simply leaves every game we play as a 50/50 shootout. I can say for almost certain that we wont win both of our upcoming home games. If i had to predict, we will win one and lose one.

5. Looking for positives, i see similarities with us now and where Ipswich were 3 years ago when McKenna came in mid season and where Portsmouth were when Mousinho came in mid season. The squad has a huge amount of talent in it (whether people chose to believe it or not) and is capable of pushing for promotion next season with some changes. Santos and Baxter will go, players like Jones and Arfield need moving out, but theres the core of a very good squad. A lot of managers would love to come and work with this squad, at this stadium in front of 20,000 fans (give or take a few thousand). I think we’re about 5 or 6 games away from writing the season off (I’ll await the dramatic replies of ‘I’ve already written the season off), and then Sharon et al need to decide what they want. I admire her dedication to him, but it’s hard to see anyway this gets turned around. Never really taken to Evatt myself, and i think many feel the same. He’s done a great job taking the club from where it was to where it is, and deserves a lot of credit. Sadly for him, i think these final days are tainting that.

 

Apologies if you’re still reading. More of a blog than a post that 🙂 

What do you mean by "the players going rogue and doing their own thing"? 

If anything I'd say the FIFA style 5-1-4 formation Evatt led to no structure so I'd be interested to know what you think the players did that was out of the ordinary.

I just saw them stay on message and keep the ball in terrible areas of the pitch.

[Traf]

5 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Dorking away

I don't know what to say.

[Kane57]

I laughed my tits off at the post about Santos and Baxter having moves lined up. To where? They'd do well to stay in L1 never mind anything more attractive than fuckin Bolton 

[thebells]

1 minute ago, Stig said:

What do you mean by "the players going rogue and doing their own thing"? 

If anything I'd say the FIFA style 5-1-4 formation Evatt led to no structure so I'd be interested to know what you think the players did that was out of the ordinary.

I just saw them stay on message and keep the ball in terrible areas of the pitch.

Fair question. Not so much the formation. I completely agree Evatts 5-1-4 tactical change was downright bizarre. 
 

In the second half, players were dribbling the ball in areas they shouldn’t be, attempting passes that just weren’t on, and simply not doing the basics. The one thing we know Evatt insists on is doing the basics correctly. It seemed to me that players had decided to pretty much ignore instructions and do what they thought was right, as opposed to what they’d been directed to do by their manager. Maybe I’m wrong, but it was my interpretation of what I saw. 
 

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, desperado said:

I think your negativity has got you blinkered here pal.

We’ve gone to Barnsley for the last two seasons with the core of the squad we’ve still got and won twice and drawn one!

I’m not having that they have regressed so much as players that we can’t even “get close to winning big games or even a score draw”!! (obviously this is with the assumption that a new manager comes in and gets the best out of this squad!)

 

Your "negativity" is my "just being realistic".  I'm genuinely just looking at what's in front of me, I'm not being negative.  You've heard me singing the praises of Matete, Santos, Baxter and others regularly, and sticking up for performances against a few teams when others have gone down the "everyone was shit" route.  I just comment on what I see.  I'm not going back 2 years to the win v 10 men Barnsley - JDB and Kachunga our main strikers with Charles, times have changed.   

Last season were 2 decent performances at Barnsley (strangely they aren't one of our bogey teams recently and historically, we do hold our own against them for whatever reason, unlike their neighbours Rotherham), but IE has weakened us physically since - eg Jerome's influence in the 2-2 draw, otherwise that's a defeat.  We've lost our best player IMO - Maghoma.  So I stand by that we can't get close to winning big games or even a score draw with these players - I'm not sure what you're basing your confidence on this season, its clear as day from where I'm looking, I'd absolutely love to be wrong.

[desperado]

1 hour ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Your "negativity" is my "just being realistic".  I'm genuinely just looking at what's in front of me, I'm not being negative.  You've heard me singing the praises of Matete, Santos, Baxter and others regularly, and sticking up for performances against a few teams when others have gone down the "everyone was shit" route.  I just comment on what I see.  I'm not going back 2 years to the win v 10 men Barnsley - JDB and Kachunga our main strikers with Charles, times have changed.   

Last season were 2 decent performances at Barnsley (strangely they aren't one of our bogey teams recently and historically, we do hold our own against them for whatever reason, unlike their neighbours Rotherham), but IE has weakened us physically since - eg Jerome's influence in the 2-2 draw, otherwise that's a defeat.  We've lost our best player IMO - Maghoma.  So I stand by that we can't get close to winning big games or even a score draw with these players - I'm not sure what you're basing your confidence on this season, its clear as day from where I'm looking, I'd absolutely love to be wrong.

It’s the fact that you are so categoric, as if it’s black and white, when it’s clearly subjective and there’s a wide difference of opinion.

You don’t say “I don’t think we can win  big games” you make it quite clear “we can’t” in the future

When there’s lots of people, not just me, who thinks a new manager can get these players to turn the tide and win big games, it’s fair to be balanced and consider that might just be a possibility.

Why?

- Because some of these players have won big games for us

- Because some of these players have done it with other clubs

- Because there’s some young, skilful potential

- Potential which hasn’t been fulfilled because they have been restricted under the current regime.

- Unlock this potential and see what confidence and belief can do to this group of players. 

There’ll be lots more too.

Unlike you I’m not making it black and white. I’m not saying a new manager will definitely get us to improve and make the play-offs and ambitiously get us up. But there’s good reasons to believe it’s possible.  

Edited January 13 by desperado