Rotherham United (A)

[Zico]

On 12/01/2025 at 05:36, tomski said:

From my small understanding the shares aren’t the issue. It’s the born again Christian relationship that is

They can still be friends and stay in touch

[desperado]

9 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Your "negativity" is my "just being realistic".  I'm genuinely just looking at what's in front of me, I'm not being negative.  You've heard me singing the praises of Matete, Santos, Baxter and others regularly, and sticking up for performances against a few teams when others have gone down the "everyone was shit" route.  I just comment on what I see.  I'm not going back 2 years to the win v 10 men Barnsley - JDB and Kachunga our main strikers with Charles, times have changed.   

Last season were 2 decent performances at Barnsley (strangely they aren't one of our bogey teams recently and historically, we do hold our own against them for whatever reason, unlike their neighbours Rotherham), but IE has weakened us physically since - eg Jerome's influence in the 2-2 draw, otherwise that's a defeat.  We've lost our best player IMO - Maghoma.  So I stand by that we can't get close to winning big games or even a score draw with these players - I'm not sure what you're basing your confidence on this season, its clear as day from where I'm looking, I'd absolutely love to be wrong.

Been thinking a little more about this debate. 

I said in an earlier post it’s tricky trying fathom out whether this is an attitude, application, competency, mentality or confidence issue with the players.

I know it’s more than this, I agree with you that the balance and  type of player we have in this squad isn’t right as well.

But out of all those factors, the majority are changeable. I’m not having that they are all incompetent and incapable to help us achieve our ambitions.

A new approach and manager would address a lot of those restrictive issues that these players are facing; attitude, application, mentality and  crucially confidence. 

It’s a debate which is subjective at the end of the day. It’s whether you feel this squad has enough quality, experience and potential to win big games or even just more games to get us challenging.

I can accept you still might say, I disagree I don’t think it is. But I maintain it’s not as black and white as you’re making out, there’s good reason to believe there’s a chance. 

 

[victor meldrew]

3 minutes ago, desperado said:

Been thinking a little more about this debate. 

I said in an earlier post it’s tricky trying fathom out whether this is an attitude, application, competency, mentality or confidence issue with the players.

I know it’s more than this, I agree with you that the balance and  type of player we have in this squad isn’t right as well.

But out of all those factors, the majority are changeable. I’m not having that they are all incompetent and incapable to help us achieve our ambitions.

A new approach and manager would address a lot of those restrictive issues that these players are facing; attitude, application, mentality and  crucially confidence. 

It’s a debate which is subjective at the end of the day. It’s whether you feel this squad has enough quality, experience and potential to win big games or even just more games to get us challenging.

I can accept you still might say, I disagree I don’t think it is. But I maintain it’s not as black and white as you’re making out, there’s good reason to believe there’s a chance. 

 

Sit on the fence then

[ianofcleveleys]

4 minutes ago, desperado said:

there’s good reason to believe there’s a chance. 

The reason for that, in my eyes, is more down to the maths than anything else, but is also the reason behind Board inaction around Evatt. Autos have long gone, we're a mile behind the top 4 even, but the bottom play off places will remain in sight for a good while yet, even with our current stumbling, shambling form. 

The other, on the field reason to believe there's a chance is that those players showed they could keep a clean sheet away at Wycombe. That night there was some graft, discipline and will to block, head and tackle. They can do it now and again, but nowhere near enough.

A new man, with a new voice and some straightforward ideas, allowed to bring in a couple of the right sorts to help those we have, could turn a team out that could beat the weaker sides and at least get a few draws against the better ones. If it's left too late to make such a change though, after the end of the window, I see that improvement being much less likely

[Whitestar]

Said this 4-5 times already since September but today is one of them days when Mr Evatt doesn't take any dinner to work with him.

We've all done it.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

1 hour ago, Whitestar said:

Said this 4-5 times already since September but today is one of them days when Mr Evatt doesn't take any dinner to work with him.

We've all done it.

It's not

[Tonge moor green jacket]

I certainly can't see a good reason to believe there's a chance. 

A mathematical one, yes, but observations suggest no.

[Johnnyrotten]

3 hours ago, desperado said:

Been thinking a little more about this debate. 

I said in an earlier post it’s tricky trying fathom out whether this is an attitude, application, competency, mentality or confidence issue with the players.

I know it’s more than this, I agree with you that the balance and  type of player we have in this squad isn’t right as well.

But out of all those factors, the majority are changeable. I’m not having that they are all incompetent and incapable to help us achieve our ambitions.

A new approach and manager would address a lot of those restrictive issues that these players are facing; attitude, application, mentality and  crucially confidence. 

It’s a debate which is subjective at the end of the day. It’s whether you feel this squad has enough quality, experience and potential to win big games or even just more games to get us challenging.

I can accept you still might say, I disagree I don’t think it is. But I maintain it’s not as black and white as you’re making out, there’s good reason to believe there’s a chance. 

 

I accept all that - a new manager would (presumably) improve mentality, application, confidence at least in the short/medium term.  That will probably be enough - with the talent we have like Collins, Randall, Tutu, Sheehan/Morley - to get some good results eg turning the defeat at Mansfield into a draw, making us good enough to have drawn with Barnsley instead of losing, make us more confident of going to for eg Reading and giving them a game instead of folding as we did at Rotherham.

I repeat the majority of the players are far from incompetent and incapable, individually a good number of them could slot into another promotion chasing team, as shown by Morley.  But all those other promotion challengers will have a bit of everything - pace, strength, height, heading ability. 

Its just my opinion and if a new manager can come in and make up the current shortfall in the bigger games I'll be delighted to be proved wrong, I just find it very difficult to visualise such an improvement with the same players.  I would think differently if we could have a minimum two new signings (that stay fit!) that provide us with the most obvious of the missing ingredients. 

[gonzo]

Double edged sword innit. If the players aren't good enough, it's on him, as he bought them in.

If they are good enough he's not getting the best out of them. Or they aren't playing for him.

Either way the buck stops with him.

I'd say it's a mixture of all 3 tbf.

Proper shitshow.

[desperado]

4 hours ago, victor meldrew said:

Sit on the fence then

In any debate, sitting on the fence is a perfectly valid option 😊

TBH I still am with these players, although I do feel they have a hell of a lot more to offer than what they are doing at the moment 

[boltonboris]

9 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Double edged sword innit. If the players aren't good enough, it's on him, as he bought them in.

If they are good enough he's not getting the best out of them. Or they aren't playing for him.

Either way the buck stops with him.

I'd say it's a mixture of all 3 tbf.

Proper shitshow.

Whichever way he tries to spin it, he's still accountable. He says he's ok with that, but he isn't. 

The players are unprofessional - You mean "YOUR" players? And if their standards are low, who is around to sort that? Where;s the presence? 

If Evatt and his staff can't be present in the gym, on the grass, or in the canteen (not that it gets used - Five Guys and Nando's is the usual daily go-to instead), then you clearly lack leadership in the playing department. Why is that? Why wasn't that a priority?

[FrancisFogarty]

18 hours ago, bwfc4ife said:

Surely Sharon must see it and feel it though?

He lost the majority of the fan base weeks ago. There’s no coming back from that no matter how much you spin it. 

Aside from all the great things she and FV have done so far, if they cannot see the obvious with Evatt then I begin to seriously question their suitability to take us forward. 

I think the current situation is based purely on hope, same with the backing in the window so far.

It’s nothing short of naivety and not what you’d come to expect from experienced business people. It’s a major worry.

Or it's a massive show of loyalty and a good advert for potential managers to see a stable owner and board.  And I know we're struggling on all fronts at the moment but as a club we're still moving forward.

Aren't we ?

[Ani]

13 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Double edged sword innit. If the players aren't good enough, it's on him, as he bought them in.

If they are good enough he's not getting the best out of them. Or they aren't playing for him.

Either way the buck stops with him.

I'd say it's a mixture of all 3 tbf.

Proper shitshow.

Let’s add in 4 and 5. Not having a balanced squad and then not utilising what we have in sensible formation. 
 

Matete is IMO a limited player but he is better midfielder than anyone the short sock brigade. Start Saturday with Tomo and left of midfield, Morley on right and Matete central and we are balanced. Instead we bring in new lad on the back of one days training and we were shit. 
 

The Williams experiment at right back was a disaster but tbf had some logic to it based on last couple of games. 
 

Tomo was equally bad and was rightly subbed so we end up with one genuine midfielder on the pitch, the one IE loaned out till 2 weeks ago. We were so disorganised it was embarrassing. 
 

IE is a fucking joke . 

[Stig]

42 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I accept all that - a new manager would (presumably) improve mentality, application, confidence at least in the short/medium term.  That will probably be enough - with the talent we have like Collins, Randall, Tutu, Sheehan/Morley - to get some good results eg turning the defeat at Mansfield into a draw, making us good enough to have drawn with Barnsley instead of losing, make us more confident of going to for eg Reading and giving them a game instead of folding as we did at Rotherham.

I repeat the majority of the players are far from incompetent and incapable, individually a good number of them could slot into another promotion chasing team, as shown by Morley.  But all those other promotion challengers will have a bit of everything - pace, strength, height, heading ability. 

Its just my opinion and if a new manager can come in and make up the current shortfall in the bigger games I'll be delighted to be proved wrong, I just find it very difficult to visualise such an improvement with the same players.  I would think differently if we could have a minimum two new signings (that stay fit!) that provide us with the most obvious of the missing ingredients. 

The key for me would be getting a new manager in with enough time to add the powerful midfielder and big hold up striker needed. 

So only 2 additions but absolutely crucial ones if we want to make a real go of it.

[Johnnyrotten]

12 minutes ago, FrancisFogarty said:

Or it's a massive show of loyalty and a good advert for potential managers to see a stable owner and board.  And I know we're struggling on all fronts at the moment but as a club we're still moving forward.

Aren't we ?

That loyalty and stability does also bring into sharper focus how vital the choosing of our next manager is.  We aren't going to do a Stoke, Oxford or Plymouth and give him half a season are we?  He's here for the long term and has to be the right appointment (not saying that's easy).  I'd be lieing if I said I had a load of confidence in them to get it right, given how they've let this slide for so long.  A problem for another day anyway.

[kent_white]

8 hours ago, Zico said:

They can still be friends and stay in touch

I think Sharon needs to take a leaf out of Old Testament fire and brimstone God who destroyed the people that didn't shape up and ignore the New Testament forgiving of sins, namby pamby type god. 

Come of Sharon. Release your inner Yahweh. 

[Greg_BWFC]

25 minutes ago, Stig said:

The key for me would be getting a new manager in with enough time to add the powerful midfielder and big hold up striker needed. 

So only 2 additions but absolutely crucial ones if we want to make a real go of it.

There you go 👍.

Maybe a left back too.

 

[bwfc4ife]

Evatt in the B.E.N, sounds like he's lost the plot to me.

Evatt defended himself against the vocal criticism aired at the New York Stadium and insisted that his players must shoulder some of the blame for the inconsistency shown so far. But asked by The Bolton News if he feels he can ‘win the battle’ and meet targets set by the club at the start of the season, he added: “The minute I don’t think I can win it, I’ll walk away.

“That is how I feel. I am a proud man.

“I am not deluded. And delusion is rife in football.

“I am not delusional and the minute I don’t think I can get any more out of these players then I will have that conversation with the board. They know that and I know that.”

Evatt’s view after the Rotherham defeat was that some or all of his players were not living up to their end of the bargain, with the manager making mention of a “fragile mentality” within the group.

And though all but one of the current first team squad were signed under his watch, the manager insists the team’s ills are not squarely his own doing.

“I am taking responsibility – when have you ever not seen me take responsibility?” he said.

“I am one man who stands in the technical area and takes it all and takes responsibility. I am the first person who takes it for myself, my team selection and for everything else.

“But if anyone thinks this is just me, they are wrong. It isn’t just me. This is a collective thing and collectively we need to do better and get better. And until everyone starts taking responsibility and not just me, then we will be OK.”

Fans have voiced their disapproval for Evatt before this season and unfurled banners home and away in the last tew months. The show of dissention at Rotherham was different, however, and Evatt admits the criticism cuts deep.

“Absolutely it is personal, and I take it personally. I should,” he said. “I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am saying I do take it personally. But let me tell you, when the fans are singing that the football is X, Y and Z, and this and that, it isn’t me playing the football, the players should take that personally as well. And this is what I am saying about taking responsibility as a collective, it is not OK, we need to be better than that and the only way we will be better is if the truth is told.

“It is no good me coming out here and supporting all the time, I have been there and done that, we are on the same cycle all the time and they need to hear it, publicly.

“If everyone thinks it is just me, they are wrong, it is not. It is everybody and everything.”

Asked if the negativity from the terraces was making this a no-win situation for his side, Evatt added: “All I hear is excuses and not one reason. The excuse is that it’s the fans this, or negativity this, manager this – all I hear is excuses, there are no reasons. There is no way that I have set my team up to go and play like that, and I haven’t for four-and-a-half years, I haven’t. This isn’t me taking over as a manager this season and just delivering this, I have been here for four-and-a-half years, everyone has seen what I can deliver. Make of that what you will.

“It is not just about me. It is not just my fault, my problems. Yes, I will take responsibility, of course, but it is about time that these lot hear the truth and they need to hear the truth.”

Edited January 13 by bwfc4ife

[Casino]

On 12/01/2025 at 09:36, desperado said:

I think he is the weakest link in that back line.

No surprise to me that our best defensive performance in the last month was without him. 

and santos

just for balance

 

not advocating we play forrester as hes weak as shit

[Stig]

19 minutes ago, bwfc4ife said:

Evatt in the B.E.N, sounds like he's lost the plot to me.

Evatt defended himself against the vocal criticism aired at the New York Stadium and insisted that his players must shoulder some of the blame for the inconsistency shown so far. But asked by The Bolton News if he feels he can ‘win the battle’ and meet targets set by the club at the start of the season, he added: “The minute I don’t think I can win it, I’ll walk away.

 

“That is how I feel. I am a proud man.

“I am not deluded. And delusion is rife in football.

“I am not delusional and the minute I don’t think I can get any more out of these players then I will have that conversation with the board. They know that and I know that.”

Evatt’s view after the Rotherham defeat was that some or all of his players were not living up to their end of the bargain, with the manager making mention of a “fragile mentality” within the group.

And though all but one of the current first team squad were signed under his watch, the manager insists the team’s ills are not squarely his own doing.

“I am taking responsibility – when have you ever not seen me take responsibility?” he said.

“I am one man who stands in the technical area and takes it all and takes responsibility. I am the first person who takes it for myself, my team selection and for everything else.

“But if anyone thinks this is just me, they are wrong. It isn’t just me. This is a collective thing and collectively we need to do better and get better. And until everyone starts taking responsibility and not just me, then we will be OK.”

Fans have voiced their disapproval for Evatt before this season and unfurled banners home and away in the last tew months. The show of dissention at Rotherham was different, however, and Evatt admits the criticism cuts deep.

“Absolutely it is personal, and I take it personally. I should,” he said. “I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am saying I do take it personally. But let me tell you, when the fans are singing that the football is X, Y and Z, and this and that, it isn’t me playing the football, the players should take that personally as well. And this is what I am saying about taking responsibility as a collective, it is not OK, we need to be better than that and the only way we will be better is if the truth is told.

“It is no good me coming out here and supporting all the time, I have been there and done that, we are on the same cycle all the time and they need to hear it, publicly.

“If everyone thinks it is just me, they are wrong, it is not. It is everybody and everything.”

Asked if the negativity from the terraces was making this a no-win situation for his side, Evatt added: “All I hear is excuses and not one reason. The excuse is that it’s the fans this, or negativity this, manager this – all I hear is excuses, there are no reasons. There is no way that I have set my team up to go and play like that, and I haven’t for four-and-a-half years, I haven’t. This isn’t me taking over as a manager this season and just delivering this, I have been here for four-and-a-half years, everyone has seen what I can deliver. Make of that what you will.

“It is not just about me. It is not just my fault, my problems. Yes, I will take responsibility, of course, but it is about time that these lot hear the truth and they need to hear the truth.”

"And to make it absolutely clear I'm not delusional!"

[HR]

4 minutes ago, Stig said:

"And to make it absolutely clear I'm not delusional!"

Making out it's his decision whether he stays or not fits the definition of delusional.

[thebells]

1 hour ago, FrancisFogarty said:

Or it's a massive show of loyalty and a good advert for potential managers to see a stable owner and board.  And I know we're struggling on all fronts at the moment but as a club we're still moving forward.

Aren't we ?

Great point!!!

[thebells]

1 hour ago, kent_white said:

I think Sharon needs to take a leaf out of Old Testament fire and brimstone God who destroyed the people that didn't shape up and ignore the New Testament forgiving of sins, namby pamby type god. 

Come of Sharon. Release your inner Yahweh. 

TheologyWays. Isn't it about 40 days and nights since Sharon made her statement?

[wakey]

Really don't see how anyone thinks there's a way back for Evatt now.

There's a chunk of the fan base will be against him now no matter what, and a bigger chunk that could only change their mind if we went on an amazing run.

A team that is mentally fragile, struggled with the post Wembley "black cloud", and couldn't cope with Cambridge's fans (all in his own words) is never putting a good enough run together to change minds.

No idea what Sharon's seeing differently.

[mickbrown]

47 minutes ago, bwfc4ife said:

Evatt in the B.E.N, sounds like he's lost the plot to me.

Evatt defended himself against the vocal criticism aired at the New York Stadium and insisted that his players must shoulder some of the blame for the inconsistency shown so far. But asked by The Bolton News if he feels he can ‘win the battle’ and meet targets set by the club at the start of the season, he added: “The minute I don’t think I can win it, I’ll walk away.

 

“That is how I feel. I am a proud man.

“I am not deluded. And delusion is rife in football.

“I am not delusional and the minute I don’t think I can get any more out of these players then I will have that conversation with the board. They know that and I know that.”

Evatt’s view after the Rotherham defeat was that some or all of his players were not living up to their end of the bargain, with the manager making mention of a “fragile mentality” within the group.

And though all but one of the current first team squad were signed under his watch, the manager insists the team’s ills are not squarely his own doing.

“I am taking responsibility – when have you ever not seen me take responsibility?” he said.

“I am one man who stands in the technical area and takes it all and takes responsibility. I am the first person who takes it for myself, my team selection and for everything else.

“But if anyone thinks this is just me, they are wrong. It isn’t just me. This is a collective thing and collectively we need to do better and get better. And until everyone starts taking responsibility and not just me, then we will be OK.”

Fans have voiced their disapproval for Evatt before this season and unfurled banners home and away in the last tew months. The show of dissention at Rotherham was different, however, and Evatt admits the criticism cuts deep.

“Absolutely it is personal, and I take it personally. I should,” he said. “I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am saying I do take it personally. But let me tell you, when the fans are singing that the football is X, Y and Z, and this and that, it isn’t me playing the football, the players should take that personally as well. And this is what I am saying about taking responsibility as a collective, it is not OK, we need to be better than that and the only way we will be better is if the truth is told.

“It is no good me coming out here and supporting all the time, I have been there and done that, we are on the same cycle all the time and they need to hear it, publicly.

“If everyone thinks it is just me, they are wrong, it is not. It is everybody and everything.”

Asked if the negativity from the terraces was making this a no-win situation for his side, Evatt added: “All I hear is excuses and not one reason. The excuse is that it’s the fans this, or negativity this, manager this – all I hear is excuses, there are no reasons. There is no way that I have set my team up to go and play like that, and I haven’t for four-and-a-half years, I haven’t. This isn’t me taking over as a manager this season and just delivering this, I have been here for four-and-a-half years, everyone has seen what I can deliver. Make of that what you will.

“It is not just about me. It is not just my fault, my problems. Yes, I will take responsibility, of course, but it is about time that these lot hear the truth and they need to hear the truth.”

 

"Yes, I will take responsibility, of course" as he sacks coaches chucks players under the bus.

Eejit