Ratwhite Posted January 2 Posted January 2 Yesterday's performance was "late period Evatt-eaque" Dog shit. Quote
ianofcleveleys Posted January 2 Posted January 2 8 hours ago, Tombwfc said: There's no club of our size and expectation that wouldn't have had a disgruntled away end on a day like today. Luton have already sacked a manager this season and Huddersfield fans have been all over Grant. If you put a poll up on here tonight 90+% of people would still be backing SS, which is remarkable considering how mediocre his results have been and the fact we've spent years in this interminable division. I think 99% of managers would scoff at the idea we are a difficult club to manage - just win games with better players, massively increased resources and a fanbase selling out away ends up and down the country cheering the team on (apparently a big factor when teams play us at the Reebok). No issue with those there yesterday giving some stick out, it was awful and I'd have joined in (I felt like booing at the telly for what good it'd have done). I don't buy though the 'big club, big expectation = entitlement to ratchet up the stick' argument. Fleetwood's 2500 fans pay what they see as good money, just as ours do, they're no more or less entitled to dish it out if they see what they think is shite. Bradford's fans, 15000+ of them had to suck up over a decade of dark days in an interminable L2, a prime example of big numbers, ground, resources being no guarantee of success. Yes, the vast majority of managers would want a go at managing us, no doubt about it, and yes, our atmosphere (at its best) would be an intimidating factor for some away sides. Conversely though, when it was turning ugly last season, managers were using it as a motivation for their team, start well, score first, watch it turn nasty. What I was getting at, is there's a fine line. If, collectively, the team has been shite and / or we think SS has lost the plot, let it be known at the end or afterwards, to them as a collective or him as the figurehead (again eithin acceptable boundaries), but in-game don't get on individual player's cases, boo them on or off etc. It really doesn't help. Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 2 Posted January 2 Christie probably isn't up to so many games in a short period. He's no Spring chicken. Quote
L/H White Posted January 2 Posted January 2 10 hours ago, Cheese said: We've played well away from home all season - despite the results. Today was probably the first time we've played shit, and we came away with a draw. Fucking hell Quote
Popular Post Zico Posted January 2 Popular Post Posted January 2 8 hours ago, RONNIE PHILLIPS said: Statistics can be deceptive..... The stats tell me we're not good enough at taking our chances or defending them We need to improve massively from the last 4 games Because the table tells me if we're not careful we'll struggle to make the play offs Quote
Eddie Posted January 2 Posted January 2 10 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said: I'm sure time is a great healer, but when was that? (away from home). No keeper has had to have a good game against us have they? I was thinking of the very early away games in the season, probably the first 4 where we got very little points wise from Stockport, Barnsley, Blackpool and Orient but from memory (you’re right, time might be a healer) we were the far better team in each and had a good argument for why we should have won them all with a bit of luck. Now we just look shit Quote
RUREADY2ROLL Posted January 2 Posted January 2 49 minutes ago, Eddie said: I was thinking of the very early away games in the season, probably the first 4 where we got very little points wise from Stockport, Barnsley, Blackpool and Orient but from memory (you’re right, time might be a healer) we were the far better team in each and had a good argument for why we should have won them all with a bit of luck. Now we just look shit We don’t just look shit; we are shit. We have been absolute crap since the first four away games of the season Quote
RUREADY2ROLL Posted January 2 Posted January 2 1 hour ago, only1swanny said: He puts in a cracking slide tackle once a game though and so people love it. He also gets knocked off the ball by a slight breeze. Assuming Cogley is injured, and Christie has been having a mare, who else do you plonk back there? We get a proper full back in this window Quote
Wanderlust Posted January 2 Posted January 2 1 hour ago, ianofcleveleys said: No issue with those there yesterday giving some stick out, it was awful and I'd have joined in (I felt like booing at the telly for what good it'd have done). I don't buy though the 'big club, big expectation = entitlement to ratchet up the stick' argument. Fleetwood's 2500 fans pay what they see as good money, just as ours do, they're no more or less entitled to dish it out if they see what they think is shite. Bradford's fans, 15000+ of them had to suck up over a decade of dark days in an interminable L2, a prime example of big numbers, ground, resources being no guarantee of success. Yes, the vast majority of managers would want a go at managing us, no doubt about it, and yes, our atmosphere (at its best) would be an intimidating factor for some away sides. Conversely though, when it was turning ugly last season, managers were using it as a motivation for their team, start well, score first, watch it turn nasty. What I was getting at, is there's a fine line. If, collectively, the team has been shite and / or we think SS has lost the plot, let it be known at the end or afterwards, to them as a collective or him as the figurehead (again eithin acceptable boundaries), but in-game don't get on individual player's cases, boo them on or off etc. It really doesn't help. Totally agree with the sentiment of this. We have no entitlement - what is past has passed and we shouldn’t boo our own players etc - all good - but I’d add the following circular observation: Recently, opinion about our manager has polarised with some on here calling for his head, others saying he needs several windows to sort it out. There is a rough correlation between these posters and the pro/anti Evatt camps. Bear with me…. Evatt inherited little but hit the ground running, however years later when he walked he stated that he was wasting his time as he couldn’t get us promoted with that squad of players - many of whom are still around today and play regularly despite SS having made 11 new signings. I don’t think many would say they haven’t got any talent, so I’m just wondering if Evatt was talking about mentality and attitude when he made his parting comment? Maybe it’s just me but I feel as if I’ve detected a bit of arrogance and a sense of entitlement amongst some of our players at times this season. As a fan, I just want our players to respect the opposition, work hard to earn the right to play and focus 100% throughout the game - I guess I’m from the school that thinks they should be honoured to wear the shirt and give everything for the privilege. But if Evatt was right and some players do have attitude problems, then I’d be more inclined to give SS time to sort it out - providing he recognises and acknowledges the issue and acts quickly starting this window. His last window was definitely a mixed bag so he’s going to have to up his game. Quote
Johnnyrotten Posted January 2 Posted January 2 11 hours ago, Cheese said: We've played well away from home all season - despite the results. Today was probably the first time we've played shit, and we came away with a draw. I'll agree to disagree. And I'm not being negative, I always acknowledge how well we play at home, whatever the result, I think we've only played badly once at home (Bradford) and deserve to be unbeaten. I haven't seen every away game so can only go off reports of those I missed (Blackpool, Orient, Luton). We played well at Huddersfield, deserved win. 2nd best at Barnsley (sending off turned a defeat into a draw), awful at Burton and Northampton (not sure where you get yesterday being our first bad one?). If we played well at Stockport, Orient, Blackpool, Wycombe, scoring 2 goals and getting 2 points from 4 games and hardly any shots on target when playing well is concerning. Seemed to do OK at Luton until retreating 2nd half and a draw a fair result probably. Mansfield v 10 men, not judging that one way or the other, but awful to watch. Quote
Cheese Posted January 2 Posted January 2 4 minutes ago, Wanderlust said: Totally agree with the sentiment of this. We have no entitlement - what is past has passed and we shouldn’t boo our own players etc - all good - but I’d add the following circular observation: Recently, opinion about our manager has polarised with some on here calling for his head, others saying he needs several windows to sort it out. There is a rough correlation between these posters and the pro/anti Evatt camps. Bear with me…. Evatt inherited little but hit the ground running, however years later when he walked he stated that he was wasting his time as he couldn’t get us promoted with that squad of players - many of whom are still around today and play regularly despite SS having made 11 new signings. I don’t think many would say they haven’t got any talent, so I’m just wondering if Evatt was talking about mentality and attitude when he made his parting comment? Maybe it’s just me but I feel as if I’ve detected a bit of arrogance and a sense of entitlement amongst some of our players at times this season. As a fan, I just want our players to respect the opposition, work hard to earn the right to play and focus 100% throughout the game - I guess I’m from the school that thinks they should be honoured to wear the shirt and give everything for the privilege. But if Evatt was right and some players do have attitude problems, then I’d be more inclined to give SS time to sort it out - providing he recognises and acknowledges the issue and acts quickly starting this window. His last window was definitely a mixed bag so he’s going to have to up his game. Schumacher got rid of the dead wood and bad apples in the summer. I'm not having that Toal, Johnston, Morley and Sheehan are responsible for our recent bad form due to mindset issues that have carried over from the Evatt-era. It's simply the League we're in. Anyone can beat anyone on any given day as League One players tend to be decent, but not quite good enough to get to the next level - otherwise they'd be playing higher up. There's smash-and-grab results every week, and fans of every team in the top half of the table probably think they're shit every other week. It's got to be one of the most difficult Leagues to escape, unless you've got a massive war chest to splurge on players who should be playing higher up - which we clearly haven't. Quote
desperado Posted January 2 Posted January 2 (edited) Because yesterday is fresh in mind and because our away results have been so much poorer than our home ones I understand why the stock response is we are crap away and we have played shit in every away game. I don’t think it’s as stark as that extreme. Burton and Doncaster stand out for me. We looked rubbish for the large part and our tactics of going longer to the forwards just didn’t work, it’s a poor tactic that I don’t want to see again. (Swindon too, worst of the lot! Poor side selection to blame there) Northampton was nearly there. But that game, like many of the other away games had bright starts that just didn’t get capitalised upon. In all our other away games, the trend for me hasn’t been playing shit, it’s been this horrible combination of not putting chances away/needing to create better chances/not turning off at the back (To be honest we’ve seen this at home too on occasions). In lots of those away games, (Stockport, Blackpool, Barnsley, Huddersfield, Luton, Wycombe spring to mind) we’ve mirrored the good fast attacking football we’ve seen at home but been punished for not being ruthless or robust enough. Of course we’re in a concerning period of form and resolving the above is easier said than done. But through a combination of a more settled side, getting our better players back in/on form and a sprinkling of transfer business, we can, IMO, still force a promotion challenge. Edited January 2 by desperado Can’t forget Swindon 😩 Quote
Johnnyrotten Posted January 2 Posted January 2 11 hours ago, ianofcleveleys said: The easy option for Vic would be to be happy to go out on loan till May and quietly restore his fitness and form. It'd show strength of character to say 'no thanks, I'll fight for my place and show what I can do for my club', especially how things went for him just before his injury. Going back to a previous post, he was struggling for sure, as many others were too, but he was subjected to some horrendous treatment from our fans, of the sort that crept in with Randall last week. If he does come back we could do with giving him a chance. I know he's got his limitations but he's scored more L1 goals in half a season than any of our other forwards currently look like getting in a full one. He can also play in a two or out wide in a 3. He could have some use. I will give anyone a chance for the 90 minutes they pull on a white shirt. And while I don't rate him, if he was starting the next game I wouldn't think we were weakened, because the competition is such a low bar. But if he plays, its got to be as a CF, we've got countless options on the wings or wide midfield and for me Vic is as much a fish out of water as Forss is out there. Round pegs in round holes for me, none of this supposedly "doing a job" - it just weakens us further. Quote
Johnnyrotten Posted January 2 Posted January 2 11 hours ago, Cheese said: No need to apologise for opinions. Although mine is also backed up by statistics. Today was the worst away performance I've seen so far, and we got a point. 🤷♂️ Today was probably the worst in the context of it being the first time we've played a bottom 4 side away and one so out of form, and we still deserved to lose but scrambled a point. But we were absolutely 2nd best at Burton, not in question, if we'd managed a late goal there we'd have still been thoroughly beaten. Quote
Cheese Posted January 2 Posted January 2 Just now, Johnnyrotten said: Today was probably the worst in the context of it being the first time we've played a bottom 4 side away and one so out of form, and we still deserved to lose but scrambled a point. But we were absolutely 2nd best at Burton, not in question, if we'd managed a late goal there we'd have still been thoroughly beaten. You're probably right about that game. I'm just generalising really. We usually create shit loads of chances, but fail to capitalise, then concede a stupid goal. Yesterday was probably the first time I thought we properly deserved to lose - but we got a point. Quote
Rizlar Posted January 2 Posted January 2 Our away form is poor and as been since SS took over! We have to score first to have a chance of a win something just not right is it a mental thing or is it the tactics but whatever it is if it’s not sorted we are not going up . Quote
burnden Posted January 2 Posted January 2 For those who traveled how did the fans react yesterday ? Did SS get any stick? Quote
desperado Posted January 2 Posted January 2 Just now, burnden said: For those who traveled how did the fans react yesterday ? Did SS get any stick? I’m not seeing this overreaction some are talking about (although I guess it can range based on where/who you are surrounded by) “Schuey sort it out” and a bit of booing seemed about the extent of it from where I was sat. Hardly toxic or abusive. Quote
Whitesince63 Posted January 2 Posted January 2 13 hours ago, RONNIE PHILLIPS said: I honestly think that Vic is the best CF we have at the moment, at least defenders know they will have a physical battle. So do I but where is he, we’ve heard nothing of him for ages and since he reportedly returned from injury? Quote
boogs Posted January 2 Posted January 2 4 minutes ago, desperado said: I’m not seeing this overreaction some are talking about (although I guess it can range based on where/who you are surrounded by) “Schuey sort it out” and a bit of booing seemed about the extent of it from where I was sat. Hardly toxic or abusive. Same from where I was stood as well. Nothing particularly untoward. Everyone around us just fairly quietly telling/agreeing with whoever they were with that "we're fuckin shit" and similar comments. Hard to disagree yesterday. Quote
Whitesince63 Posted January 2 Posted January 2 2 hours ago, only1swanny said: He puts in a cracking slide tackle once a game though and so people love it. He also gets knocked off the ball by a slight breeze. Assuming Cogley is injured, and Christie has been having a mare, who else do you plonk back there? Forrester? Quote
masi 51 Posted January 2 Posted January 2 58 minutes ago, Wanderlust said: Totally agree with the sentiment of this. We have no entitlement - what is past has passed and we shouldn’t boo our own players etc - all good - but I’d add the following circular observation: Recently, opinion about our manager has polarised with some on here calling for his head, others saying he needs several windows to sort it out. There is a rough correlation between these posters and the pro/anti Evatt camps. Bear with me…. Evatt inherited little but hit the ground running, however years later when he walked he stated that he was wasting his time as he couldn’t get us promoted with that squad of players - many of whom are still around today and play regularly despite SS having made 11 new signings. I don’t think many would say they haven’t got any talent, so I’m just wondering if Evatt was talking about mentality and attitude when he made his parting comment? Maybe it’s just me but I feel as if I’ve detected a bit of arrogance and a sense of entitlement amongst some of our players at times this season. As a fan, I just want our players to respect the opposition, work hard to earn the right to play and focus 100% throughout the game - I guess I’m from the school that thinks they should be honoured to wear the shirt and give everything for the privilege. But if Evatt was right and some players do have attitude problems, then I’d be more inclined to give SS time to sort it out - providing he recognises and acknowledges the issue and acts quickly starting this window. His last window was definitely a mixed bag so he’s going to have to up his game. But did Evatt not bring every player in his squad bar Thomason......He used to say all the time that he vetted many things in a player apart from his ability As for his initial recruitment after Administration it was woeful......He then had the pick of any players willing to drop to lge2 in the January transfer window. Quote
desperado Posted January 2 Posted January 2 7 minutes ago, boogs said: Same from where I was stood as well. Nothing particularly untoward. Everyone around us just fairly quietly telling/agreeing with whoever they were with that "we're fuckin shit" and similar comments. Hard to disagree yesterday. Absolutely. Saw lots of familiar faces. A few comments in my direction along the lines of surely even you can’t see anything positive here! 😂 And they were right! Fucking shit was spot on yesterday! Coming away with a point is the only molecule of positivity you can take from yesterday. Quote
Zico Posted January 2 Posted January 2 19 minutes ago, burnden said: For those who traveled how did the fans react yesterday ? Did SS get any stick? 17 minutes ago, desperado said: I’m not seeing this overreaction some are talking about (although I guess it can range based on where/who you are surrounded by) “Schuey sort it out” and a bit of booing seemed about the extent of it from where I was sat. Hardly toxic or abusive. aye just a voicing of frustration nowhere near toxic or abusive or anything like that Quote
masi 51 Posted January 2 Posted January 2 53 minutes ago, Cheese said: Schumacher got rid of the dead wood and bad apples in the summer. I'm not having that Toal, Johnston, Morley and Sheehan are responsible for our recent bad form due to mindset issues that have carried over from the Evatt-era. It's simply the League we're in. Anyone can beat anyone on any given day as League One players tend to be decent, but not quite good enough to get to the next level - otherwise they'd be playing higher up. There's smash-and-grab results every week, and fans of every team in the top half of the table probably think they're shit every other week. It's got to be one of the most difficult Leagues to escape, unless you've got a massive war chest to splurge on players who should be playing higher up - which we clearly haven't. You do not normally talk sense but nothing wrong in all of that Quote
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