Port Vale (A)

[Ani]

19 minutes ago, bwfc4ife said:

I find it mental that everyones only just waking up to Johnston being shit. I've been saying this for months and getting pelters. The problem is he's good enough as a bench warmer not a starter. He wins a lot of headers to be fair to him but its just a case of getting anything on it and lacks any composure whatsoever. When he's against someone with pace he's fucked. 

Toal often looks like a deer in the headlights, gets bullied to easily. The centre halves we have need to be big lads that are happy having a scrap and setting the tone. Especially away at places like last saturday and mansfield et all. No nonsense, win the battle.

Our defence is weak as piss and has been all season. Both full back options aren't good enough and that should've been addressed in January. Once we realised how shite Taylor was, we should've brought in another full back. At least one would've been enough.

For all the Conway love, i think he's wank. Forever out of position, not quick enough to get back and doesn't add an awful lot going forward despite being out of position constantly. 2 assists in 35 appearances? Same on the other side with Tutu, 1 assist and 1 goal. They can both beat a man but it rarely comes to anything and their defending is just comical at times. Is conway really that much better than Murphy from last season (he was shite)?

I'd much rather have a solid back line that can defend first and foremost. Don't concede and are a threat on set plays.

 

 

Not sure anyone has ever said GJ is a great player, but he is definitely the only option we have to play at Left centre back. Toal and Forino look totally lost playing there. 
 

The one area where we have been consistent this season has been our ability to concede after virtually no pressure. Going back to Stockport first game, nothing in it, if anything we were on top then they scored. Blackpool away scored with first shot, Orient away scored with only shot on target, Barnsley first shot on target, the list goes on. Even now Rotherham first goal nothing ball in defenders let it bobble 1-0, long ball forward 2-0, Vale long ball from our corner 1-0. We just concede from nothing ! It happens that often no one is surprised 
 

 

[Farnywhite]

5 hours ago, Whitesince63 said:

Will Forrester’s not doing too bad at Orient, Captain now and leading them on a run away from the lower reaches. Bad decision for me letting Will go, the best all round defender we had by a mile and certainly better than the likes of Toal and could have fitted in at full back instead of the useless Tutu.

Yes definitely a better defender but he spent most of the time injured he will break is toe again on the stairs or something else and be out for 6 months 

[Rizlar]

He’s had 2 spells injured already at Orient .

[wakey]

1 hour ago, bwfc4ife said:

Is conway really that much better than Murphy from last season (he was shite)?

yes

[Zog1]

Conway and Tutu are both Wing backs, basically wingers who can do a little tacking and marking , the fact our record with them at left and right back is so good is a miracle. They're doing their best outside their natural positions.

 

[RUREADY2ROLL]

4 hours ago, gonzo said:

A bit dramatic.

Being realistic; Last two games have been shocking and it’s down to SS

[Stig]

2 hours ago, bwfc4ife said:

I find it mental that everyones only just waking up to Johnston being shit. I've been saying this for months and getting pelters. The problem is he's good enough as a bench warmer not a starter. He wins a lot of headers to be fair to him but its just a case of getting anything on it and lacks any composure whatsoever. When he's against someone with pace he's fucked. 

Toal often looks like a deer in the headlights, gets bullied to easily. The centre halves we have need to be big lads that are happy having a scrap and setting the tone. Especially away at places like last saturday and mansfield et all. No nonsense, win the battle.

Our defence is weak as piss and has been all season. Both full back options aren't good enough and that should've been addressed in January. Once we realised how shite Taylor was, we should've brought in another full back. At least one would've been enough.

For all the Conway love, i think he's wank. Forever out of position, not quick enough to get back and doesn't add an awful lot going forward despite being out of position constantly. 2 assists in 35 appearances? Same on the other side with Tutu, 1 assist and 1 goal. They can both beat a man but it rarely comes to anything and their defending is just comical at times. Is conway really that much better than Murphy from last season (he was shite)?

I'd much rather have a solid back line that can defend first and foremost. Don't concede and are a threat on set plays.

 

 

That's overly negative. Johnston isn't playing well now and I'm not his biggest fan but he had a purple patch earlier in the season (Oct/Nov time) when he was excellent. And Toal also seems to be panicking now, but as Ani says they're having way to much of the ball. The midfield needs to give them options midfield.

As for Conway, I'll agree to completely disagree. He's following tactics to get forward and then the CB not covering is the CBs fault. Look at Rotherham away, he's in a good advanced position giving an option on the left, midfielder gives it away and Johnston can't cover a player he had a significant head start on.

Tutu shouldn't be in a back 4 I agree.

For me we have Forino and Conway who are our best defensive players and more than good enough for this level, but they're lower down the pecking order for some reason.

[Rizlar]

Santos made Toal and GJ look good he was forever pulling them out the shit.

[gonzo]

10 minutes ago, Rizlar said:

Santos made Toal and GJ look good he was forever pulling them out the shit.

100%. Santos took a lot of the brunt for some calamities when Toal was equally a liability.

[ianofcleveleys]

Teams have sussed Toal, Johnston and, to a degree Forino out when on the ball, letting them have it in our third and inviting them to try and do something with it.

An answer? Miss them out a bit. TSL was good at that and Bonham also in his first few games, when we were playing 3 at the back, chipping balls directly out to Conway or Tutu or going long towards Dalby. 

[bwfc4ife]

I have nothing against Conway or Tutu btw, just think we’re weaker with them in the side. For me and given our current injury plight, I’d stick Tutu on the right of the front three. That leaves us with Christie only but surely he’d be alright if told to stay deeper and give him that extra yard of time to get back. Only 1 assist for tutu so far but at least he’s got the pace to get by the full back and in behind. 

I like conway too but he always looked fucked by the 70th minute and the comparison to Murphy was simply that we don’t really look anymore solid down the left than we did last year instruction or not. Still easily brushed off the ball, doesn’t win headers and is beaten by pace easily. 

If we’re gonna play like we did Saturday, you need willing runners from midfield pressing higher up the pitch hunting the second ball, just watch Lincoln. They’re excellent at it. Erhahon, Sheehan and Simons are always way too deep. 

[Traf]

Back line wasn't good enough last season and we didn't strengthen it this time around.
Instead we handed the captaincy/vice-captaincy to the three centre backs who have no leadership skills between them.

[Leyther_Matt]

I’d much rather have 11 captains in a similar vein to 96/97, but bloody hell when was the last time we had an actual ‘leader’?

[Eddie]

53 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

I’d much rather have 11 captains in a similar vein to 96/97, but bloody hell when was the last time we had an actual ‘leader’?

Gilks 

[Leyther_Matt]

14 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Gilks 

Fair. Though I would always like to think that a goalkeeper should naturally be commanding and talkative.

[Eddie]

7 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Fair. Though I would always like to think that a goalkeeper should naturally be commanding and talkative.

So would I, but I’m not sure it’s been the case much since.

Outfield - could you say Sarce? Gary O’Neil and Karl Henry are the two that come to mind first but I’m sure there are some post that. Lowe, MJ Williams possibly

[Johnnyrotten]

7 minutes ago, Eddie said:

So would I, but I’m not sure it’s been the case much since.

Outfield - could you say Sarce? Gary O’Neil and Karl Henry are the two that come to mind first but I’m sure there are some post that. Lowe, MJ Williams possibly

Agree with all of those especially O'Neil and Henry.  Very different characters, Henry probably led by being a bit scary in a Roy Keane type of way.  O'Neil more in the Gary Speed/Jordan Henderson mould of leading by example and being a role model.

Lowe a good shout too, a bit underrated due to maybe not being the best at championship level but was a proper leader in the season we played the kids and got relegated.  

Same season, we had Liam Bridcutt, another decent leader.

Jason Lowe has to be one of the few players that have been at the club for two seasons and been a big part of the team that got relegated twice. 

[Leyther_Matt]

Yeah Lowe is a good shout for being one of the few who stuck around through the worst of it (and bonus points for being a Leigh lad, obviously)