Cardiff City (A)

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I'm not dreading the play offs, the only thing I'll dread is that feeling in the 2nd half at Wembley if you're losing and you're facing the desolation of the sombre journey home.  But losing in the semis is only slightly worse than cocking up the league season, its just another failure that we've become accustomed to.  I'd be home in half an hour and in the Algarve within 24 hours!  (with a slight relief that it would be the last time I'd have to watch some of these players).

But just questioning your "nobody will fancy getting us".  If I was any of the other challengers, we're exactly the team I'd want to be playing.  We're out of form.  And as for getting players back, fair enough we might, but I think we've got enough experience of the last few years to know its a temporary thing.  Players come back, then they get injured or suspended or dropped, its normal and it happens all the time.  It feels like we're in a permanent state of "jam tomorrow" without ever really owning the team we put out every week, like there's always a fantastic team just around the corner if we're patient.  There's an element of avoiding the real truth, that whichever 11 start, we're just a bit short of what's required and that our final league position will be a true reflection.

A lot of that is our own perception of ourselves though - which is always overly critical and more negative. Bradford and Stockport will be saying exactly the same thing.

Outside in. Nobody wants to be coming to our place with a full house behind us and a fresh ACD running at them. Are we perfect, no, but whoever is in the play offs would rather play the other 2 than us.

[Krimzon]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

In which case, you’re all too old and need to let go of things that happened when half our fanbase weren’t even born 😂.

25 year anniversary of the Preston win this year - sounds like a good time to win one again.

Cant argue with that . 

And Damn where does the time go ? 

[ianofcleveleys]

2 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I'd be amazed if we finish 3rd or 4th now, I think holding onto 5th would be an achievement.

But we could still finish 7th if either Plymouth or Luton put some wins together.  Hard to see where Luton will drop points before they come to us, I don't fancy them being within 3 points at that stage.  A couple of wins would secure it for us and at least 1 of them has to be this week.

Even 4 points this week will settle everything down a bit, though 6 should rightly be the aim. Ideally Bradford and Luton will be dead rubbers and we can keep one or two under wraps for those play off legs 

[Johnnyrotten]

17 minutes ago, ianofcleveleys said:

Even 4 points this week will settle everything down a bit, though 6 should rightly be the aim. Ideally Bradford and Luton will be dead rubbers and we can keep one or two under wraps for those play off legs 

That ship has sailed for me.  Even in the unlikely event we get 2 wins this week and we're definitely in the play offs, we'd then need to avoid finishing outside the top 4 (so not losing at Bradford).  

I feel like the general concensus has gone from wanting 2nd place a month ago, to assuming we'd finish 3rd upto the Vale defeat, to assuming we'd be at home in the 2nd leg before the last 2 games and now there seems to be an acceptance that 5th or 6th would be OK.

An away 2nd leg at Stockport or Bradford gives them a huge advantage.  For a start, if it goes to E-T, and maybe pens, its like getting a home draw for the 2nd half compared to an away tie in front of a packed vociferous crowd.  We'd get what we deserved if we fail to finish top 4.

[desperado]

3 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I'd be amazed if we finish 3rd or 4th now, I think holding onto 5th would be an achievement.

But we could still finish 7th if either Plymouth or Luton put some wins together.  Hard to see where Luton will drop points before they come to us, I don't fancy them being within 3 points at that stage.  A couple of wins would secure it for us and at least 1 of them has to be this week.

 

3 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I'm not dreading the play offs, the only thing I'll dread is that feeling in the 2nd half at Wembley if you're losing and you're facing the desolation of the sombre journey home.  But losing in the semis is only slightly worse than cocking up the league season, its just another failure that we've become accustomed to.  I'd be home in half an hour and in the Algarve within 24 hours!  (with a slight relief that it would be the last time I'd have to watch some of these players).

But just questioning your "nobody will fancy getting us".  If I was any of the other challengers, we're exactly the team I'd want to be playing.  We're out of form.  And as for getting players back, fair enough we might, but I think we've got enough experience of the last few years to know its a temporary thing.  Players come back, then they get injured or suspended or dropped, its normal and it happens all the time.  It feels like we're in a permanent state of "jam tomorrow" without ever really owning the team we put out every week, like there's always a fantastic team just around the corner if we're patient.  There's an element of avoiding the real truth, that whichever 11 start, we're just a bit short of what's required and that our final league position will be a true reflection.

 

1 hour ago, Johnnyrotten said:

That ship has sailed for me.  Even in the unlikely event we get 2 wins this week and we're definitely in the play offs, we'd then need to avoid finishing outside the top 4 (so not losing at Bradford).  

I feel like the general concensus has gone from wanting 2nd place a month ago, to assuming we'd finish 3rd upto the Vale defeat, to assuming we'd be at home in the 2nd leg before the last 2 games and now there seems to be an acceptance that 5th or 6th would be OK.

An away 2nd leg at Stockport or Bradford gives them a huge advantage.  For a start, if it goes to E-T, and maybe pens, its like getting a home draw for the 2nd half compared to an away tie in front of a packed vociferous crowd.  We'd get what we deserved if we fail to finish top 4.

 

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

A lot of that is our own perception of ourselves though - which is always overly critical and more negative. Bradford and Stockport will be saying exactly the same thing.

Outside in. Nobody wants to be coming to our place with a full house behind us and a fresh ACD running at them. Are we perfect, no, but whoever is in the play offs would rather play the other 2 than us.

I can tell our form is hitting you hard @Johnnyrotten 

But I’ve grown to enjoy our weekly debates and as always your opinion is detailed and well-reasoned.

Its a bit of a gloomy outlook which has some substance…

..but I do think @Eddie makes a very good point which you shouldn’t overlook and may make you reconsider your gloomy prediction for the season end.

It’s an insular way of looking at our position without considering our competitors. 

Our competitors for those play-off places are as (arguably more) inconsistent as us. Stockport (losing at Wembley and having to play Wootton at CB), Bradford & Huddersfield & Plymouth messing up yesterday and a good opportunity to turnover Stevenage on Tuesday - none of them make me think at the moment that they are better than us.

Folk seem to change their opinion from week to week. No doubt it’s Luton’s turn at the moment - but they’ve a lot to do to get there and they’ve had some really dodgy games and spells throughout the season.

So I don’t know how anyone can call a team out for being play off favourites.

Who’s your prediction to win the play-offs and why? 

 

[Eddie]

3 minutes ago, desperado said:

 

 

 

I can tell our form is hitting you hard @Johnnyrotten 

But I’ve grown to enjoy our weekly debates and as always your opinion is detailed and well-reasoned.

Its a bit of a gloomy outlook which has some substance…

..but I do think @Eddie makes a very good point which you shouldn’t overlook and may make you reconsider your gloomy prediction for the season end.

It’s an insular way of looking at our position without considering our competitors. 

Our competitors for those play-off places are as (arguably more) inconsistent as us. Stockport (losing at Wembley and having to play Wootton at CB), Bradford & Huddersfield & Plymouth messing up yesterday and a good opportunity to turnover Stevenage on Tuesday - none of them make me think at the moment that they are better than us.

Folk seem to change their opinion from week to week. No doubt it’s Luton’s turn at the moment - but they’ve a lot to do to get there and they’ve had some really dodgy games and spells throughout the season.

So I don’t know how anyone can call a team out for being play off favourites.

Who’s your prediction to win the play-offs and why? 

 

Us - because we’re by far the greatest team the world has ever seen (and because ACD is back and will be absolutely flying by then, which means anything is possible)

[gonzo]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

A lot of that is our own perception of ourselves though - which is always overly critical and more negative. Bradford and Stockport will be saying exactly the same thing.

Outside in. Nobody wants to be coming to our place with a full house behind us and a fresh ACD running at them. Are we perfect, no, but whoever is in the play offs would rather play the other 2 than us.

Correctamundo.

[Eddie]

Also, just whilst I’m on a positivity streak

Anyone playing us knows that you have to play for the full 95-100 mins, every game, because of the amount of late goals we score. Think it’s 17 points gained post 90 minutes - that makes any opposition fan nervy unless they’ve got a 3 goal lead and it will be even more so in a play off game.

[desperado]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Us - because we’re by far the greatest team the world has ever seen (and because ACD is back and will be absolutely flying by then, which means anything is possible)

Of course I agree 😂.

But other than the tub-thumping one-eyed fan prediction, there’s a reasonable footballing case to make for us to, especially compared to our competitors.

Lets get the shit stuff out of the way.

Off the top of my head, purely going off my opinion, there’s the Peterborough and Cardiff games where we were completely outplayed.

There’s also been some other games where we’ve been appalling too - Port Vale, Northampton, Burton. 

Then plenty of games where our “Achilles Heel” of not converting and giving up a goal out of nothing has been our undoing.

That could happen in the play-offs.

But when I think back to our games against Luton, Huddersfield, Bradford, Stockport, Stevenage, Reading, Luton - there’s only Stockport that have beaten us isn’t there? Even that game we played well. 

I’ve not seen anything in those games or consistently in their form this season to be afraid of. 

These last 4 games will tell a story too. 

I really don’t think we will fall out of the play-offs  the worst case scenario for me is finishing 5/6th - that would be a tough ask, but I still wouldn’t be writing us off even then.

 

 

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, desperado said:

I can tell our form is hitting you hard @Johnnyrotten 

But I’ve grown to enjoy our weekly debates and as always your opinion is detailed and well-reasoned.

Its a bit of a gloomy outlook which has some substance…

..but I do think @Eddie makes a very good point which you shouldn’t overlook and may make you reconsider your gloomy prediction for the season end.

It’s an insular way of looking at our position without considering our competitors. 

Our competitors for those play-off places are as (arguably more) inconsistent as us. Stockport (losing at Wembley and having to play Wootton at CB), Bradford & Huddersfield & Plymouth messing up yesterday and a good opportunity to turnover Stevenage on Tuesday - none of them make me think at the moment that they are better than us.

Folk seem to change their opinion from week to week. No doubt it’s Luton’s turn at the moment - but they’ve a lot to do to get there and they’ve had some really dodgy games and spells throughout the season.

So I don’t know how anyone can call a team out for being play off favourites.

Who’s your prediction to win the play-offs and why? 

 

Yes I enjoy the debates too!  And don't worry our form isn't hitting me hard really, I'm just trying to comment as if detached from it in a way, if I say we're not playing well its an honest assessment, and one I accept as where we're at currently.  I'm no more disappointed than even optimists like yourself!

Re the inconsistencies of others, its a fair point (I'm not too interested in Hudds, they won't be in the play offs, they've under achieved more than us this season with their shambolic managerial appointements).  But we can only really go off what we see with our own eyes, we aren't beating many teams at home.  And if we do its by 1 goal (post Port Vale in Nov), meaning the minimum requirement away is a draw, and that's a big ask when we are hardly getting shots on target away, we look toothless and have done all season, this isn't a form thing. 

Re predictions to win the play offs, I'm not avoiding the question when I say I don't have a clue.  2 years ago I was buzzing that we were playing Oxford instead of Posh, last season I'd never have said Orient would get past Stockport in the semi, and in March I'd have said Charlton would be nowhere near, they were so bad.  So yes, on that basis anything can happen, I can't dispute that, and hopefully it will, I'm just a bit weary of going through the same emotions every week of thinking this might be the week we start to look half decent.  You say others are out of form but surely they haven't looked out of form since November?  If pushed I'd say Stockport are the best team and the away game we are least likely to avoid defeat in - but who knows.  

Its a clean slate now, hoping we have 7 games to go and that we can win at least 4 of them.  Fingers crossed!

 

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Also, just whilst I’m on a positivity streak

Anyone playing us knows that you have to play for the full 95-100 mins, every game, because of the amount of late goals we score. Think it’s 17 points gained post 90 minutes - that makes any opposition fan nervy unless they’ve got a 3 goal lead and it will be even more so in a play off game.

That is undeniably true, and a point worth making. 

What I would say is that if we're a goal down with 10 minutes plus injury time to go and we're piling forward like v Wycombe and Stockport, its a whole lot more likely to happen if its at home.  Getting the same momentum and impetus is a different ball game if its away at Bradford and Stockport with the home fans cheering every tackle and clearance.

My honest/unbiased/neutral opinion is that if we are away in the 2nd leg we won't progress.

[Tombwfc]

I think we're going to win the playoffs (just getting that in for positivity purposes).

Having said that, I think we're slightly deluding ourselves if we're pitching the amount of games we're losing with 10mins to go as a strength to be feared. Any team in the playoffs will gladly take a lead at that stage if offered and not worry who it's against.

Generally it's probably overrated how much any team is thinking about any other. I'm sure on StockportWays they discuss what other teams think of them and which of their players we'd be worried about. In reality I don't think about them at all and I haven't the first idea how they've accumulated their points. I would guess most fans (and players) at this level are like that. 

[ianofcleveleys]

7 hours ago, Tombwfc said:

Having said that, I think we're slightly deluding ourselves if we're pitching the amount of games we're losing with 10mins to go as a strength to be feared. Any team in the playoffs will gladly take a lead at that stage if offered and not worry who it's against.

Agreed, while our ability to pull something out of the fire late on has been laudable, and opponents may have it in the back of their minds, it wont come off every time and hasnt when we've ballsed up v Rotherham and Stockport

What I imagine will be more prominent in their thinking will be how easily we give up leads to teams and how they can take advantage then 'manage' the rest of the game.

[Traf]

I still believe we're going up, regardless of where in the top 6 we finish.

[Take Hunt Off]

Went to Cardiff for the weekend, really enjoyable apart from the football 

Was situated in the home end adjacent to our impressive away following.

Pity we were so poor , but heyho.

Back in the city centre after the game saw a few very old school whites .

Had a craic with them , best part of the day !

[Tombwfc]

4 hours ago, ianofcleveleys said:

Agreed, while our ability to pull something out of the fire late on has been laudable, and opponents may have it in the back of their minds, it wont come off every time and hasnt when we've ballsed up v Rotherham and Stockport

What I imagine will be more prominent in their thinking will be how easily we give up leads to teams and how they can take advantage then 'manage' the rest of the game.

 

Really, I just don't think they'll be thinking about it much either way. There's no circumstance where I could imagine Jordi Osei Tutu - in the 90th minute at Wembley - having on his mind something that happened in a random Bradford game against another team three months earlier. I wouldn't back a L1 player picked at random to be able to name three players from any other side let alone know the details of their season.

[Ani]

1 hour ago, Tombwfc said:

 

Really, I just don't think they'll be thinking about it much either way. There's no circumstance where I could imagine Jordi Osei Tutu - in the 90th minute at Wembley - having on his mind something that happened in a random Bradford game against another team three months earlier. I wouldn't back a L1 player picked at random to be able to name three players from any other side let alone know the details of their season.

Given we are in April and I can get Tutu, Gale and ACD mixed up on a regular basis it must difficult for our opponents. 
 

 

[ianofcleveleys]

1 hour ago, Tombwfc said:

 

Really, I just don't think they'll be thinking about it much either way. There's no circumstance where I could imagine Jordi Osei Tutu - in the 90th minute at Wembley - having on his mind something that happened in a random Bradford game against another team three months earlier. I wouldn't back a L1 player picked at random to be able to name three players from any other side let alone know the details of their season.

It's not down to the players to do that thinking, whether they're minded to or not, the backroom staff will know, its their job, and prepare their team accordingly. That's what I was getting at.