Apologies to those that do a tough job and work hard without moaning. Lecturers and even those in training dor a tough job...You know who you are

 

However

 

I have a few of them moaning all the time on my FB wall about pay and conditions...

 

And 3 of the fuckers are posting pics today in expensive ski-ing resorts

 

Now fair enough

 

But stop moaning that you're on the breadline...is it bred into them at PGCE that they must moan about their salaries?!

Currently sat in a fully staffed school.

 

Not all striking. ..

Currently sat in a fully staffed school.

 

Not all striking. ..

Serious question: do the union bods bully those who don't?

Got a letter about a month ago about my youngest poor attendance record apparently if you drop below about 85%ish it's now a problem so i phoned the cunts and left a message because the "Head Of Year" was busy and about 1 hour later she called back

 

HOY - What's the problem Mr G

Me - My problem is that i've received this letter about my sons "poor Attendance" through illness and that you need a doctors note is that correct 

HOY - Yes it's now a national thing and it's what you now have to do

Me - So you want me to give you a sick note for my 14 year old son

Hoy - Erm well it's not a sick note it's a letter off his doctor

Me - How ever you want to dress it up it's a sick note for a child

HOY - Well no but.......

Me - No buts about it, my son isn't ill now and when he was ill our Maude didn't take him to the doctors because we had to wait a week for an oppointment + you actually sent him home on 3-4 occassions yourself because he was too ill to stay in school and JFTR he has very bad asthma

HOY - Erm i don't have that information in front of me

Me - Well i tell you what go and get the information and call me back when you understand his problems a little bit more

HOY - No need Mr G i will take your word for it

Me - Well that's very nice of you and for the record i will not be going to the doc's for a sick note for my 14 year old and i will not be justifying myself to you or anyone else so you can stick your letter

HOY - I'm sorry about all this i will delete this letter from his records

Me - Good, make sure you do and in the future ring me instead of send out 1 of your arsey letters and i will explain and goodbye

 

By the fuck the cunts sent him home last week because he was ill

 

On my daughter's last report, it said her attendance for the term was 97.8%, despite her never missing a day.

I queried it and they said the term was 90 days or something and she'd been in for 88 or whatever it was.

 

When I pointed out that they had closed the school for day when the teachers couldn't make it through the snow and also another day for a strike, that would be her two missing days, you could see a slow dawning of realisation.

 

Utter fucksponges. 

Edited March 26, 201412 yr by Traf

Currently sat in a fully staffed school.

 

Not all striking. ..

Private not state you idiot.

 

Although my kids are also at school today.

Sorry i just don't agree with this analogy. Back then nobody went into a profession  thinking their pension was a huge consideration in their choice. Most employers in 60's and 70's offered white collar staff final salary pension schemes as they were affordable to both the private and public sector. However during the past 25 years both tories then labour chipped away at the foundations that underpinned the affordability. Then with increasing life expectancy coupled with the major stock market dip in the late 80's and early  90's made private companies nervous as they had (thanks to John Major) now needed to show any potential future deficit on their balance sheets.

 

Whatever, final salary schemes are pretty much by and large unaffordable. Recipients need to thank their lucky stars they have been in one and move on. I lost mine in 2008. If i had continued and retired on it in 8 years time it would have paid out £110k. However its now worth half of that. I lost my job in 2010 and have gone back to college to try to get a job in the NHS. Will I expect a final salary scheme? No. Am I doing it because of that No.

 

If your dad had gone into the private sector he may have found the pressure of having to constantly deliver profit to many different owners hard to cope with. He may have found himself out of a job many times over. There are many advantages to working in the public sector that you cannot put in terms of money but are not present in the private sector.

 

Life expectancy has been rising consistently over a very very long time. It is not a new factor.

Public sector Final Salary pensions are fully inflation-proofed. This is because they are underwritten by the tax-payer and the Government of any day can't be seen to default.

Private sector Final Salary pensions are inflation-proofed up to a limit set in the scheme rules. Generally this limit is 5%, although some schemes protect up to 7.5%.

Inflation from 1968 to 1983 for every year (except 1969) exceeded 5%, peaking at 24.9% in 1975. Private sector pensioners at that time fell far behind their public sector counterparts.

 

To be honest though a lot of teachers could earn more in the commercial sector, the pension plan was one of the reasons they joined the profession. On the pay grades they have would they be able to get the most gifted graduates into the profession?

 

Yes the pension security really was a reason to go into the profession in the 1970s (and 1980s).

 

On the point of "most gifted graduates" you might mean those with the best class of degree.

In my day most gainers of first class honours remained in academia.

And the worst people to employ were those who felt they might have got a first but didn't, because in large numbers they resented having to work in a job.

Of course things have changed in many ways. Nowadays there are "Universities" which would previously have been regarded as little more than Colleges of Further Education. It may be the case that students work harder now than 50 years ago, but the distribution between classes of degree is farcical.

The best potential teachers, funnily enough, may not have fulfilled their potential i degree terms because of an interest in doing drama or playing football, or whatever. They have more to offer a school and its pupils than those who have never left the library.

 

Many teachers have out-grown teaching and gone into business, such as Dave Singleton to Reebok/adidas, Brendan Foster to Nova International, and Alan Pascoe to APA. Others, such as Derek Howarth of Lowton have gone to teaching as mature students for long, fulfilling and happy careers.

Edited March 26, 201412 yr by MalcolmW

If your dad had gone into the private sector he may have found the pressure of having to constantly deliver profit to many different owners hard to cope with. He may have found himself out of a job many times over. There are many advantages to working in the public sector that you cannot put in terms of money but are not present in the private sector.

 

Are you actually saying that heads don't have targets to hit, both financial and exam results led? I'm afraid it shows how little many folk know about running a secondary school.

 

They have a catchment they have to attract, every kid is money, better exam grades, more kids, better facilities. Trying to do this at GTS was no cakewalk.

I've got some godchilden, one of them is having problems at school. He's a bright kid, really nice lad, good as gold. Last year he got the head's best behaved pupil award or something, which is perfectly understandable.

 

This year he's pissed off because he's not going to get a gold behaviour certificate, one of the only people in the class to miss out. His problem is that he's not a little shit. Act like a shit then have a quiet day and you get a gold mark. Behave all the time and you get fuck all. This country really is fucked. I've told him to do a shit on the floor then next day he'll get a reward for using the toilet correctly.

Total empathy with that, I was told, off a teacher at parents evening, that my son is in what he calls" the dangerous" bracket, not that he's naughty but because he isn't naughty, doesn't mess about and can do the work and scores well on tests etc so he can apperantly get left out of the teachers attention to push him harder as he's not struggling nor kicking up a fuss, just gets on with it. So he 'a in the danger of not getting enough teaching time apparently

I'm in a fortunate position to be able to secure private tuition once a month for an hour to push him a little since hearing that and I think it stems from class size rather than teachers ability but it still irks that being well behaved gets you left out

Did you not ask how big her tits are?

Sorry i didn't but i was so close to going up to school and putting my right foot up her snatch if that helps

On my daughter's last report, it said her attendance for the term was 97.8%, despite her never missing a day.

I queried it and they said the term was 90 days or something and she'd been in for 88 or whatever it was.

 

When I pointed out that they had closed the school for day when the teachers couldn't make it through the snow and also another day for a strike, that would be her two missing days, you could see a slow dawning of realisation.

 

Utter fucksponges. 

Ha ha brilliant

I was in the post-war bulge years.

48 in Primary scchool clases, and 33 in Secondary.

 

(and the value of a private sector FS pension with 5% inflation proofing fell by over 59% compared with public sector in the period 1967-1983.)

Life expectancy has been rising consistently over a very very long time. It is not a new factor.

Public sector Final Salary pensions are fully inflation-proofed. This is because they are underwritten by the tax-payer and the Government of any day can't be seen to default.

Private sector Final Salary pensions are inflation-proofed up to a limit set in the scheme rules. Generally this limit is 5%, although some schemes protect up to 7.5%.

Inflation from 1968 to 1983 for every year (except 1969) exceeded 5%, peaking at 24.9% in 1975. Private sector pensioners at that time fell far behind their public sector counterparts.

 

 

Yes the pension security really was a reason to go into the profession in the 1970s (and 1980s).

 

On the point of "most gifted graduates" you might mean those with the best class of degree.

In my day most gainers of first class honours remained in academia.

And the worst people to employ were those who felt they might have got a first but didn't, because in large numbers they resented having to work in a job.

Of course things have changed in many ways. Nowadays there are "Universities" which would previously have been regarded as little more than Colleges of Further Education. It may be the case that students work harder now than 50 years ago, but the distribution between classes of degree is farcical.

The best potential teachers, funnily enough, may not have fulfilled their potential i degree terms because of an interest in doing drama or playing football, or whatever. They have more to offer a school and its pupils than those who have never left the library.

 

Many teachers have out-grown teaching and gone into business, such as Dave Singleton to Reebok/adidas, Brendan Foster to Nova International, and Alan Pascoe to APA. Others, such as Derek Howarth of Lowton have gone to teaching as mature students for long, fulfilling and happy careers.

No, not really those with a better class of degree at all.

 

Those who have shown a natural aptitude for education but also have a specialism. Certainly don't mean those who just got a first from a red brick.

 

I'm actually all for those who haven't got directly into education, at least they gone into the career through a desire to do so rather than for a lack of anything better to do.

Have I read this right....the turn out for the vote was just 40% and this was 3 fucking years ago?

 

Lets sort the wheat from the chaf.

Sack every fucking one of them and give 20% pay rises to those who want to work on performance related pay.

 

I'd hazard a guess that nobody would bat a fucking eyelid nor notice the fucking difference.

 

These mardarsed twats would starve if they had to find their own fodder day in day out.

The point is Crawley that teachers are employed by the state. The state is under significant budget constraints and they have to stop paying unrealistic final salary pensions.

 

They are well within their right to do so, why the strikes?

 

They are not trying to backdate the changes and are giving due notice, if some of the teachers don't like it then they are free to go elsewhere.

 

They would argue that they cannot afford to take a step back in salary terms to retrain but surely if they are as underpaid vs other industries for their ability as they say then surely this won't be a problem?

 

It's the problem of the government to decide if not having a final salary scheme will dramatically effect the standard of teachers. Personally as the profession will still have an exceptional package I don't believe it will.

 

My Mum is the governor at a local primary school, they had a vacancy in the summer & recieved over 60 qualified applicants. Unless we are saying that fully qualified teachers are not good enough (which I doubt the NUT would) then I don't think we need to be too worried about how the quality of teachers will be effected.

or affected.

Or deficated

or affected.

 

 

His Mum will be along to correct

Or defecated

Go on then....my best mate is a teacher loves the job the holidays the lot does not moan about his lot.

 

Asked him about the strike ..a few years ago the unions agreed with the government to cut the pensions, the government (not sure if this lot or last lot) said this agreement came back with a guarantee that there would be no further cuts to the pension.

 

The government have now come back and said there are further cuts.

 

Are people saying that because they are teachers they have no right to protest about this ?

 

I told him I thought striking was wrong, it was not his union that are striking, but he said what else can they do ?

 

I asked about the vote being ages ago, he was not sure but pointed out that if that was the case it does show the strike is not just something they had rushed into.

 

He teaches for all the right reasons is apparently very good at, better qualified than I guess everyone on here, he is a scientist and could go into research, but he wants to teach, but surely he still has the right to protest when his employer screws him over.

 

He is a teacher who does things like run a football team and other outside hours activity so is not sat at home at half three every day.

 

Dead easy to tar all teachers with the same brush and say if they do not like it fuck off and get a job in the real world, well if the ones that can do that do, what does it leave teaching the kids ? Instead of phd teacher who wants to inspire kids to learn and develop you end up with the dross so you punish the kids who learn fuck all.

 

Pay by results ? Means schools in good areas get best teachers, schools in worse areas get shit teachers so you end up increasing the divide.

Got a letter about a month ago about my youngest poor attendance record apparently if you drop below about 85%ish it's now a problem so i phoned the cunts and left a message because the "Head Of Year" was busy and about 1 hour later she called back

 

HOY - What's the problem Mr G

Me - My problem is that i've received this letter about my sons "poor Attendance" through illness and that you need a doctors note is that correct

HOY - Yes it's now a national thing and it's what you now have to do

Me - So you want me to give you a sick note for my 14 year old son

Hoy - Erm well it's not a sick note it's a letter off his doctor

Me - How ever you want to dress it up it's a sick note for a child

HOY - Well no but.......

Me - No buts about it, my son isn't ill now and when he was ill our Maude didn't take him to the doctors because we had to wait a week for an oppointment + you actually sent him home on 3-4 occassions yourself because he was too ill to stay in school and JFTR he has very bad asthma

HOY - Erm i don't have that information in front of me

Me - Well i tell you what go and get the information and call me back when you understand his problems a little bit more

HOY - No need Mr G i will take your word for it

Me - Well that's very nice of you and for the record i will not be going to the doc's for a sick note for my 14 year old and i will not be justifying myself to you or anyone else so you can stick your letter

HOY - I'm sorry about all this i will delete this letter from his records

Me - Good, make sure you do and in the future ring me instead of send out 1 of your arsey letters and i will explain and goodbye

 

By the fuck the cunts sent him home last week because he was ill

I think there's a rule a my lads school that if youre off ill, you can not go back for 3 days at least.

Go on then....my best mate is a teacher loves the job the holidays the lot does not moan about his lot.

 

Asked him about the strike ..a few years ago the unions agreed with the government to cut the pensions, the government (not sure if this lot or last lot) said this agreement came back with a guarantee that there would be no further cuts to the pension.

 

The government have now come back and said there are further cuts.

 

Are people saying that because they are teachers they have no right to protest about this ?

 

I told him I thought striking was wrong, it was not his union that are striking, but he said what else can they do ?

 

I asked about the vote being ages ago, he was not sure but pointed out that if that was the case it does show the strike is not just something they had rushed into.

 

He teaches for all the right reasons is apparently very good at, better qualified than I guess everyone on here, he is a scientist and could go into research, but he wants to teach, but surely he still has the right to protest when his employer screws him over.

 

He is a teacher who does things like run a football team and other outside hours activity so is not sat at home at half three every day.

 

Dead easy to tar all teachers with the same brush and say if they do not like it fuck off and get a job in the real world, well if the ones that can do that do, what does it leave teaching the kids ? Instead of phd teacher who wants to inspire kids to learn and develop you end up with the dross so you punish the kids who learn fuck all.

 

Pay by results ? Means schools in good areas get best teachers, schools in worse areas get shit teachers so you end up increasing the divide.

 

 

2 points

 

I don't think that we are anti-teachers per se

 

Even Teachers aren't stupid enough to not understand the word "unsustainable", surely?

Edited March 26, 201412 yr by boltondiver

Go on then....my best mate is a teacher loves the job the holidays the lot does not moan about his lot.

 

Asked him about the strike ..a few years ago the unions agreed with the government to cut the pensions, the government (not sure if this lot or last lot) said this agreement came back with a guarantee that there would be no further cuts to the pension.

 

The government have now come back and said there are further cuts.

 

Are people saying that because they are teachers they have no right to protest about this ?

 

I told him I thought striking was wrong, it was not his union that are striking, but he said what else can they do ?

 

I asked about the vote being ages ago, he was not sure but pointed out that if that was the case it does show the strike is not just something they had rushed into.

 

He teaches for all the right reasons is apparently very good at, better qualified than I guess everyone on here, he is a scientist and could go into research, but he wants to teach, but surely he still has the right to protest when his employer screws him over.

 

He is a teacher who does things like run a football team and other outside hours activity so is not sat at home at half three every day.

 

Dead easy to tar all teachers with the same brush and say if they do not like it fuck off and get a job in the real world, well if the ones that can do that do, what does it leave teaching the kids ? Instead of phd teacher who wants to inspire kids to learn and develop you end up with the dross so you punish the kids who learn fuck all.

 

Pay by results ? Means schools in good areas get best teachers, schools in worse areas get shit teachers so you end up increasing the divide.

well put most jump on the band wagon and see it from one side.

2 points

 

I don't think that we are anti-teachers per se

 

Even Teachers aren't stupid enough to understand the word "unsustainable", surely?

You bein ironic or just contradicting yourself ?

 

The other way to look at this is that government claims there will be a £9bn deficit in next 5 years on all public sector pensions that includes armed forces, civil servants etc etc, naturally the unions dispute the figure, no idea who is right.

 

In next 5 years we will spend £47bn in foreign aid so the pension shortfall could be balanced but we choose to spend elsewhere, the funny thing is that the unions would never argue this way as they do not see foreign aid in the same way ax a lot of others.

Ani - if what your saying is true then I would say fair enough. It's the same thing the lad I was speaking to last night said. However with further questioning it didn't quite seemed to me like they where getting screwed over.

 

If they are basing the fact that they were made promises of no further cuts then surely the NUT were smart enough when they did the deal to have it written into the employment contracts that the final salary scheme will be protected for the fulfilment of the contract? If so then it would be impossible for the government to change this. However my understanding is that it isn't written in stone and they do have the right to make future changes to the contract as long as they give adequate notice.

 

This means that either someone dropped a bollock on the NUT side during the last negotiation or it wasn't actually promised that it would stay that way for the rest of employment. Either way I don't see what the teachers can complain about.

 

I think it's highly unlikely that anyone would offer or even that the NUT would expect to get a deal that would last as long as a person is employed (circa 30+ years). After all with the average life expectancy flying up retirement age and benefits are surely going to be different for everyone come 2050

There are several unions involved together in the negotiations.

All except NUT felt it was improper to take industrial action while negotiations were continuing.

 

(As an aside many teachers also pay additional voluntary contributions but are too trusting (or just possibly thick) to check that the additional amount has been added to their pot by the joint incompetence of the Teachers' Pension Agency and the Prudential. All too often it is not.)

Ani - if what your saying is true then I would say fair enough. It's the same thing the lad I was speaking to last night said. However with further questioning it didn't quite seemed to me like they where getting screwed over.

If they are basing the fact that they were made promises of no further cuts then surely the NUT were smart enough when they did the deal to have it written into the employment contracts that the final salary scheme will be protected for the fulfilment of the contract? If so then it would be impossible for the government to change this. However my understanding is that it isn't written in stone and they do have the right to make future changes to the contract as long as they give adequate notice.

This means that either someone dropped a bollock on the NUT side during the last negotiation or it wasn't actually promised that it would stay that way for the rest of employment. Either way I don't see what the teachers can complain about.

I think it's highly unlikely that anyone would offer or even that the NUT would expect to get a deal that would last as long as a person is employed (circa 30+ years). After all with the average life expectancy flying up retirement age and benefits are surely going to be different for everyone come 2050

Honestly do not know how the deal was done, but any contract term can be changed and not all teachers are in NUT not sure if all teachers are even in Unions.

 

This lad ain't thick or a bullshitter, the deal as understood was a 'take the pain this once and then you are sorted' that has not happened.

 

The idea was that for people so many years in the deal stood for new starters and people with short service a new deal would come in.

 

As I said in first post I do not agree with the strike but can see their point.