(That long since we've had any, couldn't find the thread)

Alan Nixon: "Top Liverpool starlet Cameron Branagan will Ben allowed out on loan in Jan.

Bolton lead the race for the 20 year old midfielder"

Edited December 11, 20169 yr by Ratwhite

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Neither of the Scottish duo were big target men that could have been hit early to hold off a big centre half. Into space, for them to move into, on the turn or dropping in, fine.

I take your point but disagree partially. Neither were big but both had the strength and skill to take a ball pinged into them hold it under pressure and lay it off. Again it doesn't really matter because we don't play that way. Both were excellent in the air despite not being particularly big and thrived on crosses to their heads, we don't do that either. I guess my point is the way this team is set up we'd likely not think as fondly of those two now. Which is utterly ridiculous.

6 minutes ago, perth_white said:

I take your point but disagree partially. Neither were big but both had the strength and skill to take a ball pinged into them hold it under pressure and lay it off. Again it doesn't really matter because we don't play that way. Both were excellent in the air despite not being particularly big and thrived on crosses to their heads, we don't do that either. I guess my point is the way this team is set up we'd likely not think as fondly of those two now. Which is utterly ridiculous.

I can't work out what kind of striker the team is set up for at the minute 

45 minutes ago, Stig said:

I can't work out what kind of striker the team is set up for at the minute 

Exactly. If you can't see Super John and Andy Walker doing well in the system then likely time for the system to be thrown in the bin.

I’m not sure scoring goals is our biggest concern at the moment. We could certainly improve there, but the defensive frailties are quite alarming. 

Set pieces and crosses into the box are our main undoing. That’s not just on those in the box. Crosses need to be cut out, fewer daft free kicks given away, etc. 

Again, it comes back to culture and professionalism. Who bollocks these players when they do daft stuff like that on the pitch? On Tuesday night, Lolos went for a 60/40 in his favour, facing his own goal, and booted it out for a corner. Amazingly, the ref gave a goal kick and he got away with it. It just wasn’t necessary. Collins is so slapdash with his passing at times it makes me question if he’s won a competition (appreciate he’s a good player), McAtees tracking back is non existent, etc. Not just digging these players out. But there is undoubtedly an issue there - Evatt himself has told us on 3 or 4 occasions. 
 

Sorry - gone off the transfers topic. 

2 hours ago, perth_white said:

I take your point but disagree partially. Neither were big but both had the strength and skill to take a ball pinged into them hold it under pressure and lay it off. Again it doesn't really matter because we don't play that way. Both were excellent in the air despite not being particularly big and thrived on crosses to their heads, we don't do that either. I guess my point is the way this team is set up we'd likely not think as fondly of those two now. Which is utterly ridiculous.

Agreed. 

We don't play enough quality crosses in early for them to attack.

Early, quick passes also give your strikers that fraction longer to get the ball under control, as they can be on the move, with a touch of space.

Too often, it's laboured with the forwards heavily marked, in a densely packed defensive area.

We are capable of doing it right, and very difficult to stop when we do.

Just don't seem to be able to do it consistently, with enough variation to keep the opposition guessing. 

4 hours ago, Rizlar said:

Problem is are slow build up play does not help Dion whatsoever why Evatt cannot play to his strengths is beyond me . 

He'd have to rip up the whole mantra and become an on the break counter attack team.

 

 

On 28/11/2024 at 09:07, Farrelli said:

I’ve heard the ball boys organiser is for the chop. 

He's been around since the burnden days used to run the junior whites. 

Is scoring headers in general less popular than it was 30 years ago? Across the leagues that is.....or is it just our lot don't wanna ruin their "trims" ? 

6 hours ago, perth_white said:

I take your point but disagree partially. Neither were big but both had the strength and skill to take a ball pinged into them hold it under pressure and lay it off. Again it doesn't really matter because we don't play that way. Both were excellent in the air despite not being particularly big and thrived on crosses to their heads, we don't do that either. I guess my point is the way this team is set up we'd likely not think as fondly of those two now. Which is utterly ridiculous.

Its sobering to think of the players that we would never have seen in a white shirt if IE had been our manager, once he'd decided on wingbacks at the expense of wingers.  These would either never have signed or wouldn't have stayed around long:

Peter Thompson, Willie Morgan, Jeff Chandler, David Lee, Scott Sellars, Johansen, Diouff.  Even Ameobi and Morais who I enjoyed watching and provided some memorable moments in more recent times. 

That's without getting into full backs and certain types of striker that wouldn't have been considered in IEs later years, when strength or height seems to be considered a weakness.

2 hours ago, gonzo said:

He'd have to rip up the whole mantra and become an on the break counter attack team.

 

 

What a great idea, eh!

1 hour ago, auckland_bwfc said:

Is scoring headers in general less popular than it was 30 years ago? Across the leagues that is.....or is it just our lot don't wanna ruin their "trims" ? 

I think so. 

I genuinely believe it is because of the greater knowledge of risk of long term damage to the brain.

We've seen the campaign by Jeff Astle's family, and also new rules in rugby.

Nothing official in football yet, and I think the authorities don't want to see the game completely changed, but I do think there is a slight shift away from it.

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I think so. 

I genuinely believe it is because of the greater knowledge of risk of long term damage to the brain.

We've seen the campaign by Jeff Astle's family, and also new rules in rugby.

Nothing official in football yet, and I think the authorities don't want to see the game completely changed, but I do think there is a slight shift away from it.

Is it not just because everyone thinks they can play the beautiful game on the deck?  It used to be OK to launch one in the mixer and hope for the best, now its all 1-2's, getting in behind and slide rule passes.  I bet long range shots/goals have reduced too for the same reason, 

Anyway, we still seem to concede plenty headers, surely more than we used to (2 in last 2 games, that Villa kids one, Northampton, presume there are others).  The days of us scoring a header from open play seem like something from a bygone age. 

Headers have probably died down as strikers these days are smaller and quicker. Haaland and Chris Wood aside.

50 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Is it not just because everyone thinks they can play the beautiful game on the deck?  It used to be OK to launch one in the mixer and hope for the best, now its all 1-2's, getting in behind and slide rule passes.  I bet long range shots/goals have reduced too for the same reason, 

Anyway, we still seem to concede plenty headers, surely more than we used to (2 in last 2 games, that Villa kids one, Northampton, presume there are others).  The days of us scoring a header from open play seem like something from a bygone age. 

That's my point though- teams are trying to play on the ground more, and that is driven by something.

Obviously there is a view from overseas football; the Dutch and Spanish for example. 

I also believe a driver is the knowledge about risks of heading the ball.

 

49 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

That's my point though- teams are trying to play on the ground more, and that is driven by something.

Obviously there is a view from overseas football; the Dutch and Spanish for example. 

I also believe a driver is the knowledge about risks of heading the ball.

 

Still plenty of defensive headers from corners, long ball, crosses, etc.

16 minutes ago, Chadderton said:

Still plenty of defensive headers from corners, long ball, crosses, etc.

There are. Perhaps not so many with some of ours! 😁

Clearly it isn't every team, and there are those who use the higher ball still, I just think there is a bit of a shift in general. 

Seemingly every premiere league team plays out from the back, to some extent, and that's has filtered down the leagues.

Lower league players perhaps not so good at it, so begs the question why persevere?

 

On 28/11/2024 at 17:48, thebells said:

 

… and as well as Morley, Conway seems to have become world class in his time in League Two. 

Aye, its noticeable that none of the armchair managers on here were up in arms when morley was shipped out

2 hours ago, Casino said:

Aye, its noticeable that none of the armchair managers on here were up in arms when morley was shipped out

He'd had a 2 year slide. Last season he barely played. Very clearly a victim of IE's 'my way or the highway'. He'd come to point where we barely noticed him.

If he was still here I'm not sure his situation would have improved.

We now see that he has the ability, but he'd still not get in an Evatt team.

23 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I think so. 

I genuinely believe it is because of the greater knowledge of risk of long term damage to the brain.

We've seen the campaign by Jeff Astle's family, and also new rules in rugby.

Nothing official in football yet, and I think the authorities don't want to see the game completely changed, but I do think there is a slight shift away from it.

We don’t play with the big heavy casey ball the likes of Astle used to head so you can’t really compare but certainly heading is much less these days as coaches tend to prefer to play it on the ground. Some like Evatt in my opinion take it too far and to me lose a great weapon in doing so.

54 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

We don’t play with the big heavy casey ball the likes of Astle used to head so you can’t really compare but certainly heading is much less these days as coaches tend to prefer to play it on the ground. Some like Evatt in my opinion take it too far and to me lose a great weapon in doing so.

Not sure it matters that much. 

Repeated heading is the concern. 

Iirc kiddies don't.

4 hours ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

He'd had a 2 year slide. Last season he barely played. Very clearly a victim of IE's 'my way or the highway'. He'd come to point where we barely noticed him.

If he was still here I'm not sure his situation would have improved.

We now see that he has the ability, but he'd still not get in an Evatt team.

Couple of things I’d say. 

I’m ok with a manager having a my way or the highway policy. Players need to fit the system and live to the standards of everyone else. I don’t know if Morley did or not, but no issue if that’s Evatt’s approach. Big Sam wasn’t successful by being soft with the players  

in terms of now seeing he has the ability, how many people on here have actually watched him play for Wycombe? I guess most are basing their opinions on the fact that they’re top of the league. I genuinely have no idea how influential he’s been  

Anyway. I’d say it’s fairly nailed on Wycombe will be given the chance to part with cash and buy him in January. 

We’ll see if they really rate him then. 

6 hours ago, Casino said:

Aye, its noticeable that none of the armchair managers on here were up in arms when morley was shipped out

Pretty certain there were a decent amount of comments that we're now short in midfield if we do anything other than the 2 in midfield. Which we promptly abandoned, and then have been trying to resurrect for some unknown reason.

If we'd have set up for a 3 in midfield at the start of the season Morley would have been kept as cover.

Have a look at the "formation/tactics" thread for doubts about the 523 over the summer.

41 minutes ago, thebells said:

Couple of things I’d say. 

I’m ok with a manager having a my way or the highway policy. Players need to fit the system and live to the standards of everyone else. I don’t know if Morley did or not, but no issue if that’s Evatt’s approach. Big Sam wasn’t successful by being soft with the players  

in terms of now seeing he has the ability, how many people on here have actually watched him play for Wycombe? I guess most are basing their opinions on the fact that they’re top of the league. I genuinely have no idea how influential he’s been  

Anyway. I’d say it’s fairly nailed on Wycombe will be given the chance to part with cash and buy him in January. 

We’ll see if they really rate him then. 

If they can't afford him they cant buy him.Bolton over the years  have had many loan players they rated but couldn't afford

7 hours ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

He'd had a 2 year slide. Last season he barely played. Very clearly a victim of IE's 'my way or the highway'. He'd come to point where we barely noticed him.

If he was still here I'm not sure his situation would have improved.

We now see that he has the ability, but he'd still not get in an Evatt team.

Falls under the category of “Evatt is getting 90/100 things wrong at the minute, but fuck it let’s make it everything” 

Nobody came on here and said Evatt has it wrong when Morley went. 

Yet Evatt got criticism when he gave him an extended contract. 

So Morley either comes back a better player. Or we sell him on for a few hundred grand, thanks to us having given him an extension on his contract. 

Move on.

1 hour ago, desperado said:

Nobody came on here and said Evatt has it wrong when Morley went. 

.....

Move on.

No, no-one did. He'd spent the best part of 18m on the bench at best. We assumed he wasn't up to much as Evatt (in whom, apparently, we trust(ed) )didn't. 

It seems, with the right care, there was still a player there. It's just that Evatt did give the right care & we didn't see it .

As I said, I don't think he'd be in the First XI even now.