royal white Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 21 minutes ago, ZicoKelly said: If there's any doubt, not guilty, that's the whole point of a trial, you're not meant to find someone guilty if there is doubt Unfortunately some people have ace lawyers who are able to cast doubt, eg OJ Simpson and Robert Durst, or pay people off before it gets that far, eg Michael Jackson Unfortunately some don't and are sent down when they didn't do it Which is why it's best not to kill anyone who is "proven beyond doubt" because that's technically anyone found guilty, which doesn't necessarily mean they are guilty So if it’s best not to kill anyone incase they’re innocent shall we start reducing terms as well? Shall we just give them 10 years instead of life incase there’s a chance they maybe innocent? Quote
Zico Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, royal white said: So if it’s best not to kill anyone incase they’re innocent shall we start reducing terms as well? Shall we just give them 10 years instead of life incase there’s a chance they maybe innocent? No, just don't kill them Quote
bolty58 Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 1 hour ago, ZicoKelly said: No, just don't kill them The population of the world has doubled since WW2. Can't you look at it through your climate change spectacles - eradicating toxic waste? Quote
Zico Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 3 hours ago, bolty58 said: The population of the world has doubled since WW2. Can't you look at it through your climate change spectacles - eradicating toxic waste? Ok, death penalty for murder, unless you killed someone who was generally considered undesirable, which can be the focus of the trial - was the victim a cunt Quote
Jol_BWFC Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 6 hours ago, royal white said: Some haven’t been tried yet so how do you get “proven beyond doubt” from that? You didn’t think that through did you. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11740048/British-soldier-jailed-for-nine-years-for-raping-six-year-old-girl.html get this cunt in the ground You Conveniently ignored the fact one of them had his conviction overturned. He’d have been in the ground by the time the decision was reversed. Quote
Jol_BWFC Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 5 hours ago, royal white said: So if it’s best not to kill anyone incase they’re innocent shall we start reducing terms as well? Shall we just give them 10 years instead of life incase there’s a chance they maybe innocent? Just send them to Australia like we used to. They can hang out with Bolty. Quote
Guest Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said: Just send them to Australia like we used to. They can hang out with Bolty. Hardly a punishment, though Quote
Jol_BWFC Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, boltondiver said: Hardly a punishment, though A few hours with Bolty and they’ll be preparing the noose themselves. Quote
darwen_white Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said: Just send them to Australia like we used to. They can hang out with Bolty. As from 1st Nov, the worst punishment would be to keep them in the UK, it's going to be hell on earth... Quote
bolty58 Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 52 minutes ago, boltondiver said: Hardly a punishment, though Oh, I don't know. Depths of winter at the moment. It got down to 20 Celsius yesterday. I flirted with the idea of wearing a jacket but decided to tough it out. Unless he meant hanging out with me was punishment enough? Bland, inconspicuous, boring twat that I am Quote
mickbrown Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 1 hour ago, boltondiver said: Hardly a punishment, though The Australia bit, no. Hanging out with that bellend, absolutely. Quote
Guest Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 28 minutes ago, bolty58 said: Oh, I don't know. Depths of winter at the moment. It got down to 20 Celsius yesterday. I flirted with the idea of wearing a jacket but decided to tough it out. Unless he meant hanging out with me was punishment enough? Bland, inconspicuous, boring twat that I am You could offer personalised rehabilitation Quote
Guest Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 There is literally no good argument for the death penalty. Its more expensive than life imprisonment. It does not act as a deterrent at all and statistics clearly show it doesn't. It brings with it risks of irreversible miscarriages of justice - thus placing extra burden on judicial process - and possibly reducing the likelihood of guilty verdicts. There is no moral justification for it - its easy to depict monsters who kill children as being deserving but the majority of serious crimes have some mitigating factors, however small. And the people who commit the very worst most horrendous crimes would be thankful for a quick execution rather than a life in prison in most cases. Quote
Mounts Kipper Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: There is literally no good argument for the death penalty. Its more expensive than life imprisonment. It does not act as a deterrent at all and statistics clearly show it doesn't. It brings with it risks of irreversible miscarriages of justice - thus placing extra burden on judicial process - and possibly reducing the likelihood of guilty verdicts. There is no moral justification for it - its easy to depict monsters who kill children as being deserving but the majority of serious crimes have some mitigating factors, however small. And the people who commit the very worst most horrendous crimes would be thankful for a quick execution rather than a life in prison in most cases. I’m sure more was spent on keeping Brady and Hindley alive than if we were to have executed them, their life's served no purpose after they murdered, tortured and sexually abused innocent kids, keeping them alive was a heinous decision. Edited July 25, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote
Guest Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said: I’m sure more was spent on keeping Brady and Hindley alive than if we were to have executed them, their life's served no purpose after they murdered, tortured and sexually abused innocent kids, keeping them alive was a heinous decision. The cost of appeals - reviews - pressure on legal system - financial costs of administration and actually doing the need far outweigh keeping someone in prison for life in the states. There is no reason for it - other than to satiate anger but even then many victims' families in America where their murderer was killed would say that initially they are happy but over time they realise it doesn't solve anything and that the criminal is no longer around to suffer yet they suffer daily. We've just moved beyond it as a society. If it were an effective deterrent I think the view would be different. But it simply isn't. Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 Not for it myself. looking at it from the point of view of the executioner, it must be a very difficult thing to live with. Terrorists though, does make me wonder.... Quote
Latham8WFC Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 Defense costs for death penalty trials in Kansas averaged about $400,000 per case, compared to $100,000 per case when the death penalty was not sought. (Kansas Judicial Council, 2014). A recent study in California revealed that the cost of the death penalty in the state has been over $4 billion since 1978. Study considered pretrial and trial costs, costs of automatic appeals and state habeas corpus petitions, costs of federal habeas corpus appeals, and costs of incarceration on death row. (Alarcon & Mitchell, 2011). In Maryland, an average death penalty case resulting in a death sentence costs approximately $3 million. The eventual costs to Maryland taxpayers for cases pursued 1978-1999 will be $186 million. Five executions have resulted. (Urban Institute, 2008). Enforcing the death penalty costs Florida $51 million a year above what it would cost to punish all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole. Based on the 44 executions Florida had carried out since 1976, that amounts to a cost of $24 million for each execution. (Palm Beach Post, January 4, 2000). https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/URLs_Cited/OT2016/16-5247/16-5247-2.pdf Studies of the California death penalty system, the largest in the US, have revealed that a death sentence costs at least 18 times as much as a sentence of life without parole would cost. https://deathpenalty.org/facts/5-myths-death-penalty/ https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs/summary-of-states-death-penalty https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/which-is-cheaper-execution-or-life-in-prison-without-parole-31614 Quote
Mounts Kipper Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Latham8WFC said: Defense costs for death penalty trials in Kansas averaged about $400,000 per case, compared to $100,000 per case when the death penalty was not sought. (Kansas Judicial Council, 2014). A recent study in California revealed that the cost of the death penalty in the state has been over $4 billion since 1978. Study considered pretrial and trial costs, costs of automatic appeals and state habeas corpus petitions, costs of federal habeas corpus appeals, and costs of incarceration on death row. (Alarcon & Mitchell, 2011). In Maryland, an average death penalty case resulting in a death sentence costs approximately $3 million. The eventual costs to Maryland taxpayers for cases pursued 1978-1999 will be $186 million. Five executions have resulted. (Urban Institute, 2008). Enforcing the death penalty costs Florida $51 million a year above what it would cost to punish all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole. Based on the 44 executions Florida had carried out since 1976, that amounts to a cost of $24 million for each execution. (Palm Beach Post, January 4, 2000). https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/URLs_Cited/OT2016/16-5247/16-5247-2.pdf Studies of the California death penalty system, the largest in the US, have revealed that a death sentence costs at least 18 times as much as a sentence of life without parole would cost. https://deathpenalty.org/facts/5-myths-death-penalty/ https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs/summary-of-states-death-penalty https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/which-is-cheaper-execution-or-life-in-prison-without-parole-31614 Interesting information, still it shouldn’t stop us having the death penalty available as a punishment even if it’s rarely if ever used. Quote
darwen_white Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 How would everyone feel if, (god forbid) one of our families were victims of the likes of Brady and Hindley? I'd be wanting to press the button, for sure. Quote
Youri McAnespie Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 If Preeti 'back-end bus arse' Patel is so keen on the death penalty why doesn't she bugger off and live in some fly-blown south asian shithole that still has it..? From there she can also have paid conflabs with radical Zionists with impunity. Quote
Youri McAnespie Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, darwen_white said: How would everyone feel if, (god forbid) one of our families were victims of the likes of Brady and Hindley? I'd be wanting to press the button, for sure. I'd have new-found respect for Derek Acorah and Yvette Fielding... Viva Socialism! Quote
darwen_white Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Youri McAnespie said: If Preeti 'back-end bus arse' Patel is so keen on the death penalty why doesn't she bugger off and live in some fly-blown south asian shithole that still has it..? From there she can also have paid conflabs with radical Zionists with impunity. I'm glad you wrote that and not the US President Quote
Guest Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, darwen_white said: How would everyone feel if, (god forbid) one of our families were victims of the likes of Brady and Hindley? I'd be wanting to press the button, for sure. Like I say, often murder victims families in the states and often they are initially keen for DP but a few years after the execution often are far less keen because they suddenly realise their lives are ruined and the perpetrator is not there anymore....it doesn't actually help. Quote
Youri McAnespie Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, darwen_white said: I'm glad you wrote that and not the US President If telling folk to bugger off 'home' if 'they don't like it' and slurs based on them being overweight is good enough for the right-wing lunatic fringe it's good enough for me. Quote
Zico Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 24 minutes ago, darwen_white said: How would everyone feel if, (god forbid) one of our families were victims of the likes of Brady and Hindley? I'd be wanting to press the button, for sure. I'd probably want them dead conversley what if you knew 100% somone like a mate or loved one (or even yourself) was 100% innocent but were being put to death for something they didn't do because they got stitched up or had a shit lawyer or something there's a good series on iplayer - life and death row - you find yourself one episode thinking they should be spared, then thinking it's a just sentance the next https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b071jy7p/life-and-death-row Quote
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