Politics

[Farrelli]

5 hours ago, Winchester White said:

Oh come on BD. He said prorogation was nothing to do with Brexit then complained that people were using the courts to stop Brexit. He can't have it both ways. Also, did you not see him blatantly lie on TV last week to a parent in hospital that there were no press whilst pointing to them? In normal times that would be his 'Gordon Brown bigoted old women' moment but it was brushed off and cleverly avoided because the bloke was a Labour activist. 

Brexit is poisoning everything and Cummings is making capital out of that with a win at all costs ethic. The Jo Cox remarks were shocking tonight .

Go back a little further and he completely denied that prorogation of parliament would be used as tactic when he became PM. His whole time in office is based on lies. Many of his own MPs believe no serious attempt at getting a new deal was planned despite public declarations to the contrary. 

[kent_white]

9 hours ago, ZicoKelly said:

Not seen that clip in years, I always thought it was Steve Coogan

 

Yeah it was - but Armando Iannucci put it up on twitter the other day and I wanted to make sure I have him credit in case he was a lurking poster!

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Farrelli said:

Go back a little further and he completely denied that prorogation of parliament would be used as tactic when he became PM. His whole time in office is based on lies. Many of his own MPs believe no serious attempt at getting a new deal was planned despite public declarations to the contrary. 

Whilst I have sympathy with that view, it would be correct to add that Boris’s “behaviour” is probably

1. In response to the behaviour of the other side

2. Probably the only way to get things done

[Moon boy]

8 hours ago, Ani said:

‘11 privileged unelected remainer judges.’ 

This is typical of the level the debate has dropped to. No structured argument about what they have done wrong. So just a statement to belittle them.

Both sides are guilty of this just yours was the one I saw. The only thing these 11 have done wrong is come up with a decision you do not like. The flip side is people who probably did not know there was a Supreme Court last week throwing their toys out of the pram because someone has said they do not agree with the opinion of the 11. 

I honestly do not see what happens now. Boris legally can not leave without a deal , do not think there is time to make a deal. 

 

I think an election now could be a disaster. It would be an election based on one issue but whoever wins would be in charge for another 5 years.  

I tried in a previous post to offer a structured argument why I thought the Supreme Court was incorrect 

In the previous court appearances two in Scotland and one in London the judges were not unanimous in their interpretation of whether it was ‘unlawfull’ For Boris to Prorogue Parliament, in fact both in Scotland and London the first court decision was to uphold Boris’s position

At the moment if you are one of the 17.4million people who voted 3 years ago to leave the EU and you believed that Democracy, especially, in the so called ‘Mother of Parliaments ‘ would carry out those wishes you have had to realise that something bigger than Parliament is doing its best to prevent this happening.

I have voted in General Elections and Referendums and local elections since the ‘70’s, during that period I have vehemently disagreed with the outcome of some votes but I have had to accept the outcome until we get another chance to vote and change things

The combined mixture of Parliament, the Lords, The Judiciary have always had the confidence of the People, sometimes only just, that in the end Democracy will rule

At the moment with the current Elected Government not in control of Parliament, laws being made by the unelected, mainly, Remain Party’s, the Speaker of the House, who must be neutral, assisting MP’s  to carry out is own stated aim to stop Brexit.

The Lords, who again have a majority of Remain members who have also decided that they need not pay any attention to the wishes of the Majority

If you now see The Judiciary move from having differing views on the previously available powers of an elected Government to a Unanimous 11-0 decision that the Government acted Unlawfully you begin to conclude that something bigger than Parliament is at work

 

[Mounts Kipper]

2 hours ago, Farrelli said:

Go back a little further and he completely denied that prorogation of parliament would be used as tactic when he became PM. His whole time in office is based on lies. Many of his own MPs believe no serious attempt at getting a new deal was planned despite public declarations to the contrary. 

The biggest lie is that remainers want to leave with a deal, no they don’t they wanted remain at all costs, Labour, SNP, Lib Dem’s, are all guilty of that lie, the Labour Party even put that in their manifesto, that is the mother of all lies, truly truly shocking, let’s hear the usual clowns on here try to defend that fact. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Sweep]

18 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

t they wanted remain at all costs, Labour, SNP, Lib Dem’s, are all guilty of that lie, 

Let's not leave the Tory lot out of this either, there are certainly plenty of them who also want to remain at any cost as well

[Sweep]

8 hours ago, Winchester White said:

He said prorogation was nothing to do with Brexit then complained that people were using the courts to stop Brexit. He can't have it both ways.

That's a fair enough comment I reckon

[kent_white]

22 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

The biggest lie is that remainers want to leave with a deal, no they don’t they wanted remain at all costs, Labour, SNP, Lib Dem’s, are all guilty of that lie, the Labour Party even put that in their manifesto, that is the mother of all lies, truly truly shocking, let’s hear the usual clowns on here try to defend that fact. 

I'm a remainer who wants to leave with a deal.

[Mounts Kipper]

Just now, kent_white said:

I'm a remainer who wants to leave with a deal.

There are some honourable folk and I’m not including every MP but the ones who are accusing Johnson of lying are the biggest liars and hypocrites in parliament, SNP and Labour are a disgrace as are a few Tories, startling that they take the moral high ground yet have been lying every day for over 3 years. 

[ZiggyStardust]

The courts ruled that the prorog of parliament was illegal because it prevented the MPS from doing their jobs without justification.

The Speaker welcomed them back yesterday 'to their place of work'

Is there a single person in this country who looks at yesterday, and thinks 'thank fuck they are back at work, everything is going to be ok?'

Are we any closer to sorting Brexit ? Are we any better off for yesterday ?

Get rid of the lot of them, and start anew.

I'd call for a vote of no confidence in this parliament.

 

 

 

[Mounts Kipper]

12 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said:

The courts ruled that the prorog of parliament was illegal because it prevented the MPS from doing their jobs without justification.

The Speaker welcomed them back yesterday 'to their place of work'

Is there a single person in this country who looks at yesterday, and thinks 'thank fuck they are back at work, everything is going to be ok?'

Are we any closer to sorting Brexit ? Are we any better off for yesterday ?

Get rid of the lot of them, and start anew.

I'd call for a vote of no confidence in this parliament.

 

 

 

Leader of the liberal/dems wrote to the EU and said don’t give Johnson a deal actively working against the U.K. interest, and she’s not the only one,  that is the scale of what we are dealing with uttter utter bastards. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Farrelli]

42 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

The biggest lie is that remainers want to leave with a deal, no they don’t they wanted remain at all costs, Labour, SNP, Lib Dem’s, are all guilty of that lie, the Labour Party even put that in their manifesto, that is the mother of all lies, truly truly shocking, let’s hear the usual clowns on here try to defend that fact. 

If the leave campaign had not told lie after lie to gain votes then perhaps the remain MPs would not have had to take this stance. However, we now have a PM who does not care what lies or deceit is needed. That is truly shocking and you defend him. For the good of people's jobs and the economy 'no deal' has to be prevented. 

[frank_spencer]

24 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I'm a remainer who wants to leave with a deal.

Snap.

[Mounts Kipper]

5 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

If the leave campaign had not told lie after lie to gain votes then perhaps the remain MPs would not have had to take this stance. However, we now have a PM who does not care what lies or deceit is needed. That is truly shocking and you defend him. For the good of people's jobs and the economy 'no deal' has to be prevented. 

It seems you don’t understand how negotiations works, you can’t go into any negotiation and get the best outcome if you’ve already decided you won’t walk away from the deal, Johnson understand this and he wants a deal, what’s so difficult to understand about that? 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Latham8WFC]

Ranvir Singh (definitely would) mentioned that a new consensus going through parliament is that Bojo will leave and a caretaker will take over, Margaret Beckett was the name used as she is respected on both sides of the aisle. 

She has no real power but can delay the 31st October 2019 deadline, as Bojo has categorically said he won't move this date. Then a GE is called in November 2019. 

[Mounts Kipper]

3 minutes ago, Latham8WFC said:

Ranvir Singh (definitely would) mentioned that a new consensus going through parliament is that Bojo will leave and a caretaker will take over, Margaret Beckett was the name used as she is respected on both sides of the aisle. 

She has no real power but can delay the 31st October 2019 deadline, as Bojo has categorically said he won't move this date. Then a GE is called in November 2019. 

Does that need a vote of no confidence in Boris? 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Does that need a vote of no confidence in Boris? 

Vote of no confidence in government. Temp govt forms to ensure extension and call election. I’d say given the arguments around it it’s highly highly unlikely. By rights Corbyn should lead a temporary government but nobody else wants him too. Which is why I see it unlikely he will allow Labour to back it.

[Farrelli]

3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

It seems you don’t understand how negotiations works, you can’t go into any negotiation and get the best outcome if you’ve already decided you won’t walk away from the deal, Johnson understand this and he wants a deal, what’s so difficult to understand about that? 

It seems you don't understand that the EU have been waiting patiently for his new proposal and alternative backstop arrangement. It also seems you are prepared to believe that he actually wants a deal when he has not shown any concrete proposal. The bottom line is that nobody believes a single word that comes out of his mouth. What is so hard to understand about that?

[Ani]

53 minutes ago, Moon boy said:

I tried in a previous post to offer a structured argument why I thought the Supreme Court was incorrect 

In the previous court appearances two in Scotland and one in London the judges were not unanimous in their interpretation of whether it was ‘unlawfull’ For Boris to Prorogue Parliament, in fact both in Scotland and London the first court decision was to uphold Boris’s position

At the moment if you are one of the 17.4million people who voted 3 years ago to leave the EU and you believed that Democracy, especially, in the so called ‘Mother of Parliaments ‘ would carry out those wishes you have had to realise that something bigger than Parliament is doing its best to prevent this happening.

I have voted in General Elections and Referendums and local elections since the ‘70’s, during that period I have vehemently disagreed with the outcome of some votes but I have had to accept the outcome until we get another chance to vote and change things

The combined mixture of Parliament, the Lords, The Judiciary have always had the confidence of the People, sometimes only just, that in the end Democracy will rule

At the moment with the current Elected Government not in control of Parliament, laws being made by the unelected, mainly, Remain Party’s, the Speaker of the House, who must be neutral, assisting MP’s  to carry out is own stated aim to stop Brexit.

The Lords, who again have a majority of Remain members who have also decided that they need not pay any attention to the wishes of the Majority

If you now see The Judiciary move from having differing views on the previously available powers of an elected Government to a Unanimous 11-0 decision that the Government acted Unlawfully you begin to conclude that something bigger than Parliament is at work

 

You are basically saying that because you do not like the result it must be something dodgy. 

We have voted to Leave. What that deal is has to be ratified by parliament. 

May had a deal parliament rejected it. There was no outcry from you. 

Parliament have said no deal is not acceptable so they are traitors. Why Leavers think they not only won the vote but also have the right to define what Leave means is just wrong. 

We have a Supreme Court as the ultimate place where legal matters get a decision. Now because Leave do like the outcome the whole system is fraudulent. 

I do not like where we are. It is as I have said it would be from the start a complete and utter shambles. But the answer to that is not to give the likes of Johnson, Gove and Rees Mogg more power. They are at least as untrustworthy as the rest, IMO a lot worse. 

As a democracy we have laws and procedures in place to protect that democracy. The idea this should all be dismantled so the elite can keep their tax breaks should scare you. The fact Boris is positioning this as him and his lot v the establishment is bollocks. Unless you mean the mega rich are wanting to ignore the rules as they seem to think is their birth right. 

Like many others I am not in love with the EU but the price of this whole farce is starting to massively outweigh any possible benefits of leaving. 

[Latham8WFC]

1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Does that need a vote of no confidence in Boris? 

Yes

Just now, bwfcfan5 said:

Vote of no confidence in government. Temp govt forms to ensure extension and call election. I’d say given the arguments around it it’s highly highly unlikely. By rights Corbyn should lead a temporary government but nobody else wants him too. Which is why I see it unlikely he will allow Labour to back it.

Exactly nobody wants Corbyn to lead the 'temporary government' hence Beckett being mentioned. She would appease both sides whilst having no real power other than to move the date. 

[Farrelli]

1 hour ago, boltondiver said:

Whilst I have sympathy with that view, it would be correct to add that Boris’s “behaviour” is probably

1. In response to the behaviour of the other side

2. Probably the only way to get things done

1. He is the PM and it demeans the position.

2. Get things done in his world takes no regard of what it will mean to the UK as a whole. When he talks about getting things done he means to the satisfaction of the ERG and that is not good enough.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Latham8WFC said:

Yes

Exactly nobody wants Corbyn to lead the 'temporary government' hence Beckett being mentioned. She would appease both sides whilst having no real power other than to move the date. 

But Corbyn is faced with the embarrassment of not leading a government of national emergency then a few weeks later going to polls saying he should be PM. Can you really see him ever allowing his party to create that scenario?

Even with someone who most Labour MPs would support like Beckett?

[Mounts Kipper]

1 minute ago, Farrelli said:

It seems you don't understand that the EU have been waiting patiently for his new proposal and alternative backstop arrangement. It also seems you are prepared to believe that he actually wants a deal when he has not shown any concrete proposal. The bottom line is that nobody believes a single word that comes out of his mouth. What is so hard to understand about that?

You seriously believe labour lies that we are not negotiating?  Of course he wants a deal, he is desperate to bring a better deal back to parliament, the stance he is taking is to try and leverage the EU to get a better deal for the U.K. his stance has now got the EU to reopen the WA agreement and specifically change the backstop, all the time he is being undermined by labour, snp , Lib Dem’s etc. As previously stayed you’ve no idea how negotiations work. 

[Latham8WFC]

2 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said:

But Corbyn is faced with the embarrassment of not leading a government of national emergency then a few weeks later going to polls saying he should be PM. Can you really see him ever allowing his party to create that scenario?

Even with someone who most Labour MPs would support like Beckett?

 Ranvir Singh the 20+ year political veteran seemed to think so. 

[Farrelli]

4 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You seriously believe labour lies that we are not negotiating?  Of course he wants a deal, he is desperate to bring a better deal back to parliament, the stance he is taking is to try and leverage the EU to get a better deal for the U.K. his stance has now got the EU to reopen the WA agreement and specifically change the backstop, all the time he is being undermined by labour, snp , Lib Dem’s etc. As previously stayed you’ve no idea how negotiations work. 

Several of his own MPs said no negotiation was taking place a few weeks ago and whilst there is more going on now it is getting very late in the day. He said himself a few weeks ago he hadn't spoken to the EU. You had better get in touch with the PM and tell him that negotiation involves talking to each other.