Site Supporter Cheese Posted December 4, 2018 Site Supporter Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Moon boy said: If TM’s deal fails to get a majority next Tuesday she will have to go back to the EU and if she can remove the EU’s unilateral control of the final backstop position this deal would go through on a second vote, that would be ‘Brexit’ done and dusted, finished If this scenario doesn’t come to pass we will still leave on March 29th possibly with no deal The EU have already clarified they will not budge an inch further (their position has barely moved from day 1) and May's Withdrawal Agreement means Brexit will NEVER be done and dusted. We are leaving with no deal. We're fucked, and the blame is on everyone BUT the fuckwits who got us into this situation. Edited December 4, 2018 by Cheese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 27 minutes ago, Moon boy said: If TM’s deal fails to get a majority next Tuesday she will have to go back to the EU and if she can remove the EU’s unilateral control of the final backstop position this deal would go through on a second vote, that would be ‘Brexit’ done and dusted, finished If this scenario doesn’t come to pass we will still leave on March 29th possibly with no deal No. Today’s developments means no deal is effectively done for unless loads of MPs suddenly change their minds. Msy won’t very likely be able to remove the backstop or add unilateral exit. It will take a whole new deal, possibly Norway like to pass parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted December 4, 2018 Moderators Share Posted December 4, 2018 She's a sly one, is Theresa Played a blinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leigh white Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, Casino said: She's a sly one, is Theresa Played a blinder What a cute cookie, fooled all her enemies. she will piss that vote next week now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted December 5, 2018 Moderators Share Posted December 5, 2018 Still don't see her winning the vote but it's just another step along the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leigh white Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, Casino said: Still don't see her winning the vote but it's just another step along the road to the job centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted December 5, 2018 Members Share Posted December 5, 2018 5 hours ago, kent_white said: I just hope there's somebody out there with the vision to unite the country following this whole sorry mess. We're all reasonably intelligent people - and we're at each other's throats. Somehow we have to find a solution or unite behind a leader who can heal some of these divisions. Either that or we'll need a dictatorship. Enter stage left, 'Oooh Jeremy Corbyn' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted December 5, 2018 Members Share Posted December 5, 2018 5 hours ago, miamiwhite said: True mate, but he set the ball rolling.... Did I imagine it or was he acclaimed as the most influential post war British politician - even by some of his most strident adversaries (Kenneth Clarke etc.)? Hardly an irrelevance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted December 5, 2018 Members Share Posted December 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Spider said: I’ll bet right now we don’t end up leaving. It's the hope that kills you. I dread to think what might happen if a democratic decision by one of the biggest turnouts in history was overturned by out of touch politicians with their snouts in the trough. Leaving aside the absolute nutjobs who could do anything (thinking poor old Jo Cox here), just think of the plight of Labour politicians in their northern working class electorates which voted heavily to leave. Labour being the main obstacle (numbers wise) in parliament to the delivery of the will of the people. We'd certainly be in for many more years of intrigue, incident and discussion. I can't see any way on Earth that leavers would ever let this go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bolty58 Posted December 5, 2018 Members Share Posted December 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Casino said: It's all going very, very well And heres me thinking we had lost A definite game of two halves At worst, this is a score draw having come back from 2 down in the last five minutes Don't gloat too early matey. You could make yourself look a bigger fool than usual. As the greatest Briton in living memory once said "If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 2 hours ago, bolty58 said: I dread to think what might happen if a democratic decision. I can't see any way on Earth that leavers would ever let this go. Too right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon boy Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 7 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said: No. Today’s developments means no deal is effectively done for unless loads of MPs suddenly change their minds. Msy won’t very likely be able to remove the backstop or add unilateral exit. It will take a whole new deal, possibly Norway like to pass parliament. Wrong, the Greive amendment to let parliament decide what happens next is NOT law, the law has already been passed to leave on the 29March with a deal or no deal. The Government, TM, would have to put forward a vote to make Greive’s motion into law, and that won’t happen. This Conservative Government are still in control of what happens next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent_white Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 9 hours ago, boltondiver said: I’m getting... it it could only be.... Tony Oh yeah - that should heal all the divisions perfectly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) The commons will vote against TM plan and the government will have to go back to the EU for more concessions and suprise suprise concessions will follow. I see just as predicted earlier in this thread Corbyn failed to do the TV debate. It’s all so predictable. Edited December 5, 2018 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: The commons will vote against TM plan and the government will have to go back to the EU for more concessions and suprise concessions will follow. I see just as predicted earlier in this thread Corbyn failed to do the TV debate. It’s all so predictable. Seriously what makes you think that will happen? The EU have said there’s no more discussions and like has been said above they’ve barely moved a muscle since the beginning. We can’t have our cake and eat it it really is simple. Ask for all concessions in the world but it still doesn’t sort the Irish border out. It it doesn’t get through commons it’s another referendum. Stay or hard brexit. Simples. How it should’ve been done in the first place. Edited December 5, 2018 by gonzo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, gonzo said: Seriously what makes you think that will happen? The EU have said there’s no more discussions and like has been said above they’ve barely moved a muscle since the beginning. We can’t have our cake and eat it it really is simple. Ask for all concessions in the world but it still doesn’t sort the Irish border out. It it doesn’t get through commons it’s another referendum. Stay or hard brexit. Simples. How it should’ve been done in the first place. Let’s wait and see what happens after it’s rejected. Edited December 5, 2018 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggyStardust Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, gonzo said: Seriously what makes you think that will happen? The EU have said there’s no more discussions and like has been said above they’ve barely moved a muscle since the beginning. We can’t have our cake and eat it it really is simple. Ask for all concessions in the world but it still doesn’t sort the Irish border out. It it doesn’t get through commons it’s another referendum. Stay or hard brexit. Simples. How it should’ve been done in the first place. That is what was offered first time. 'Soft' and 'hard' Brexits only became a term after the referendum, once the mps realised they had lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 42 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: The commons will vote against TM plan and the government will have to go back to the EU for more concessions and suprise suprise concessions will follow. I see just as predicted earlier in this thread Corbyn failed to do the TV debate. It’s all so predictable. Like i said earlier, you live in a parallel universe where they have chocolate waterfalls and marshmallow mountains Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: Like i said earlier, you live in a parallel universe where they have chocolate waterfalls and marshmallow mountains So you keep saying. To be clear, you are saying if the vote in the commons goes against May, no concessions will be forthcoming and we will go straight to WTO? Edited December 5, 2018 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Moon boy said: Wrong, the Greive amendment to let parliament decide what happens next is NOT law, the law has already been passed to leave on the 29March with a deal or no deal. The Government, TM, would have to put forward a vote to make Greive’s motion into law, and that won’t happen. This Conservative Government are still in control of what happens next It isn't law. Absolutely. But for the government to override parliament and once again be in contempt? I think that is highly unlikely. Highly highly unlikely. Especially when 26 Conservative MPs voted in support of the contempt motion. If May had a majority she could plough on with whatever and ignore that amendment but she doesn't. The government have in effect lost control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said: The commons will vote against TM plan and the government will have to go back to the EU for more concessions and suprise suprise concessions will follow. I see just as predicted earlier in this thread Corbyn failed to do the TV debate. It’s all so predictable. Corbyn failed to do the TV debate? He wants to do it on ITV - May on BBC. Neither seem willing to shift from that. So both are failing to do a TV debate if you choose to use those terms. If anything May is too scared of the direct uninterrupted head to head debate ITV are proposing. She wants the sanctity of the highly managed scripted BBC offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Corbyn failed to do the TV debate? He wants to do it on ITV - May on BBC. Neither seem willing to shift from that. So both are failing to do a TV debate if you choose to use those terms. If anything May is too scared of the direct uninterrupted head to head debate ITV are proposing. She wants the sanctity of the highly managed scripted BBC offer. Bullshit Corbyn was never going to do the debate. Why, because he’s a leaver and any debate would highlight that and that would go down like a lead ballon with the Labour Party. Edited December 5, 2018 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalcolmW Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 10 hours ago, Casino said: Still don't see her winning the vote but it's just another step along the road What about the possibility of a tied vote and a a casting vote for Berc…? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 25 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: So you keep saying. To be clear, you are saying if the vote in the commons goes against May, no concessions will be forthcoming and we will go straight to WTO? This is about what you are saying. You infer that if the vote goes against TM then she will go cap in hand back to the EU and they will give her a deal that is acceptable to Parliament i.e. remove any conditionality around the backstop should we not agree a trade deal. That simply won't happen as the ROI would block it outright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 33 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Bullshit Corbyn was never going to do the debate. Why, because he’s a leaver and any debate would highlight that and that would go down like a lead ballon with the Labour Party. That and other lies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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