Politics

[paulhanley]

Just now, Not in Crawley said:

I haven’t told you want to think, I actually agreed with the point you are lecturing me on. Liberal monoculture? As I have written in the last two posts, there is real issues with it, and it’s arrogance.

I was just saying that you argue from a point of view and expect everyone to simply agree without seeing the irony in calling others arrogant. 

Ugly Patriotism can lead to destructive paths, ugly liberalism can lead to neoliberal one nationism. It’s a cute sign off, but contains nothing of real substance.  

I categorically don't expect everybody to agree with me. If I wanted to avoid differing opinions I wouldn't be on a forum. But I'll argue my corner.

Ugly patriotism can indeed lead to destructive paths. It's just that this isn't ugly patriotism. It's just old fashioned mainstream patriotism that exists in the hearts of normal people in every country and always will. It's just that it stands in stark contrast to the current ugly liberalism. Yet again you conflate normal patriotism and populism. Please stop.

Your can dismiss it as "nothing of real substance" in language that burnishes your self proclaimed credentials as centrist and pragmatic if you like. We have free speech. 

And by the way - there's nowt 'edgy' about becoming conservative. Generations of people have done it as they move from their 20s and 30s in to their 40s and 50s. 

Winston Churchill: "If you're not a liberal at 25 you have no heart. If you're not a conservative at 35, you have no brain".

 

 

[Sweep]

8 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

Winston Churchill: "If you're not a liberal at 25 you have no heart. If you're not a conservative at 35, you have no brain".

 

 

He didn't say that though did he?

Edited January 22, 2020 by Sweep

[paulhanley]

6 minutes ago, Sweep said:

He didn't say that though did he?

Well according to very many sources I've read over the years he did. I'm happy to be corrected.

The sentiment stands.

[miamiwhite]

46 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

And judging by some of the cunts on here it’s fucking boring being left wing 😘

Take a prize from the top shelf sir 👍😂🇬🇧

[Sweep]

6 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

Well according to very many sources I've read over the years he did. I'm happy to be corrected.

The sentiment stands.

I agree with the sentiment.

who knows if he said or our not, I just thought it was one of those famous quotes that is always wrongly attributed

Edit:

https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-falsely-attributed/

Edited January 22, 2020 by Sweep

[kent_white]

7 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

Well according to very many sources I've read over the years he did. I'm happy to be corrected.

The sentiment stands.

How old are you Paul by the way?

[paulhanley]

1 minute ago, Sweep said:

I agree with the sentiment.

who knows if he said or our not, I just thought it was one of those famous quotes that is always wrongly attributed

I've seen it in loads of places. Just googled "Churchill, socialism"..... these two came up

“Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.” —Perth, Scotland, 28 May 1948, in Churchill, Europe Unite: Speeches 1947 & 1948 (London: Cassell, 1950), 347.

AND

“The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” —House of Commons, 22 October 1945.

[miamiwhite]

32 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

I haven’t told you want to think, I actually agreed with the point you are lecturing me on. Liberal monoculture? As I have written in the last two posts, there is real issues with it, and it’s arrogance.

I was just saying that you argue from a point of view and expect everyone to simply agree without seeing the irony in calling others arrogant. 

Ugly Patriotism can lead to destructive paths, ugly liberalism can lead to neoliberal one nationism. It’s a cute sign off, but contains nothing of real substance.  

Would you not agree that ugly liberalism leads to destructive paths ?

Just wondering what your thoughts are on SUTR being included recently on the extremist list by the counter terrorism lot ?

No need for elongated replies, just purely about the above two questions please 😉👍

[paulhanley]

1 minute ago, kent_white said:

How old are you Paul by the way?

47. Grey hair. No specs yet. Might need "readers" soon though. 

You?

[miamiwhite]

This is Iranian "liberalism" 😉

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/1Fubar/status/1214829141196886016?s=09

[Not in Crawley]

1 hour ago, paulhanley said:

I categorically don't expect everybody to agree with me. If I wanted to avoid differing opinions I wouldn't be on a forum. But I'll argue my corner.

Ugly patriotism can indeed lead to destructive paths. It's just that this isn't ugly patriotism. It's just old fashioned mainstream patriotism that exists in the hearts of normal people in every country and always will. It's just that it stands in stark contrast to the current ugly liberalism. Yet again you conflate normal patriotism and populism. Please stop.

Your can dismiss it as "nothing of real substance" in language that burnishes your self proclaimed credentials as centrist and pragmatic if you like. We have free speech. 

And by the way - there's nowt 'edgy' about becoming conservative. Generations of people have done it as they move from their 20s and 30s in to their 40s and 50s. 

Winston Churchill: "If you're not a liberal at 25 you have no heart. If you're not a conservative at 35, you have no brain".

 

 

I’ve not given my stance politically, as I say repeatedly, I’ve agreed with your anger about certain topics, you say you have to ‘defend your corner’ what are you defending, besides your own hubris?

Also, as others have pointed out it’s a misattributed quote, a glib sign off which makes you sound slightly naive. Listen, if you are going to take the moral and intellectual high ground, my advice would be don’t leave yourself open to such easy pot shots.   

[kent_white]

55 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

47. Grey hair. No specs yet. Might need "readers" soon though. 

You?

So you were 37 when you became a conservative?

You're 2 years off having a brain! 😋

[kent_white]

And 42 by the way - so I've well missed the boat.

[paulhanley]

4 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

I’ve not given my stance politically, as I say repeatedly, I’ve agreed with your anger about certain topics, you say you have to ‘defend your corner’ what are you defending, besides your own hubris?

Also, as others have pointed out it’s a misattributed quote, a glib sign off which makes you sound slightly naive. Listen, if you are going to take the moral and intellectual high ground, my advice would be don’t leave yourself open to such easy pot shots.   

I don't want the moral and intellectual high ground. I certainly don't want to claim it as a divine right like the liberal intelligentsia do.

You're not bothering to tackle the essence of what I'm saying. You can try to undermine with "slightly naive" and "glib sign off" but people will make their own judgements. Plenty did on December 12.

You ought to be in politics. Or PR. You're a dab hand at getting your key messages out irrespective of the questions being posed or issues raised. Very, very Blairite tendencies are those. Bit of a thing of the past all that now though (in my very humble opinion, before you start on about lecturing again).

[miamiwhite]

4 minutes ago, kent_white said:

And 42 by the way - so I've well missed the boat.

Locked in the shed pal ? 😉👍

[paulhanley]

10 minutes ago, kent_white said:

So you were 37 when you became a conservative?

You're 2 years off having a brain! 😋

Yeah but if he didn't really say it doesn't count! 🙂 

And that age means I can just about remember seeing Ian Greaves's team winning Division 2 in 1978 (admittedly aged 6!). My five years of seniority over you at least has one advantage!

Edited January 22, 2020 by paulhanley

[Not in Crawley]

4 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

I don't want the moral and intellectual high ground. I certainly don't want to claim it as a divine right like the liberal intelligentsia do.

You're not bothering to tackle the essence of what I'm saying. You can try to undermine with "slightly naive" and "glib sign off" but people will make their own judgements. Plenty did on December 12.

You ought to be in politics. Or PR. You're a dab hand at getting your key messages out irrespective of the questions being posed or issues raised. Very, very Blairite tendencies are those. Bit of a thing of the past all that now though (in my very humble opinion, before you start on about lecturing again).

You might not want to, but you do. I’ve agreed with your anger, as I have similar views on that topic. I’m just unsure why you feel the need to hammer home a point again and again - it rather smacks of obsessive compulsion, rather than a balanced viewpoint who wants to be engaged in debate; that on occasion weakens some of the valid issues you raise.

By the way, I’m an marketing director, my other half is a PR, and my ex wife is a senior civil servant - so yes, it’s what I do for a living.

[paulhanley]

11 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

You might not want to, but you do. I’ve agreed with your anger, as I have similar views on that topic. I’m just unsure why you feel the need to hammer home a point again and again - it rather smacks of obsessive compulsion, rather than a balanced viewpoint who wants to be engaged in debate; that on occasion weakens some of the valid issues you raise.

By the way, I’m an marketing director, my other half is a PR, and my ex wife is a senior civil servant - so yes, it’s what I do for a living.

Takes one to know one owd lad. And an ex journo to boot.

[Not in Crawley]

There are no old journalists, just PR and consultants who wanted to earn more money.

[Not in Crawley]

27 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

Takes one to know one owd lad. And an ex journo to boot.

See? Common ground - and less of the old, two months until I’m 42 😂

[miamiwhite]

Will you two loved up fuckers please get a room ? 😉

[kent_white]

2 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

Will you two loved up fuckers please get a room ? 😉

It's knocking me sick 🤢🤢🤢

[Guest]

1 hour ago, kent_white said:

And 42 by the way - so I've well missed the boat.

Plenty of time

[Not in Crawley]

12 minutes ago, kent_white said:

It's knocking me sick 🤢🤢🤢

Because you know how beautiful I am

[bolty58]

14 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

It is Indeed. And that was his point. The cap, with the best of intentions achieved that, but also brought massive issues.

Not sure about your country, but we waste absolutely ridiculous amounts of food over here- a slight price increase might make people be a bit more careful and manage things differently.

The point being made was with regards to best land management, environmental impact and bringing about improvements in the countryside for wildlife, workers etc.

If it means a more realistic price for certain goods then fine.

You'll get me going with that one. I work with a bunch of people (plus have a daughter) who will throw two litres of a three litre bottle of milk away because the 'best by' date has arrived. Same attitude with virtually everything else which has a 'best by' or 'use by' date on it. Madness!

Won't use their noses and trust their senses. Besides, a factor of safety is always built into these things anyway. Pure, unadulterated and unnecessary waste.