Politics

[Sweep]

1 minute ago, Escobarp said:

Is that aimed at me?

Nope, not at all - Mounts has been saying all along that we'll get a free trade deal. Now he's agreeing that nothing is free...so presumably he now think's we won't get a free trade deal 

[Spider]

14 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Nope, not at all - Mounts has been saying all along that we'll get a free trade deal. Now he's agreeing that nothing is free...so presumably he now think's we won't get a free trade deal 

Mounts doesn't care if the deal involves us giving all our gold to Europe and building a lorry park that stretches from Dover to London - he said we'd get a deal. He never said it would be good.

To be fair, his predictions elsewhere have been wonkier than a non-EU approved banana, so he's due a win.

[Escobarp]

57 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Nope, not at all - Mounts has been saying all along that we'll get a free trade deal. Now he's agreeing that nothing is free...so presumably he now think's we won't get a free trade deal 

Get ya now. In reality whilst we use the terminology free trade we all know it isn’t. Quite a misleading term really. 

no such thing as a free lunch 

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Ani said:

We previously had totally Free Trade not sure that can be bettered. 

Works both ways though. If its so key, you'd think both sides would grasp it.

I heard a comment the other day, perhaps the economists amongst us can elaborate:

Under a no deal situation, any tariffs imposed on us would be replicated. As we import more than we export, we would have a nett surplus of tariff money, thereby able to refund all producers/exporters etc for their initial cost rises. 

 

[Ani]

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Works both ways though. If its so key, you'd think both sides would grasp it.

I heard a comment the other day, perhaps the economists amongst us can elaborate:

Under a no deal situation, any tariffs imposed on us would be replicated. As we import more than we export, we would have a nett surplus of tariff money, thereby able to refund all producers/exporters etc for their initial cost rises. 

 

But if our exports are say 5% more expensive then we sell less. 

[Escobarp]

1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Works both ways though. If its so key, you'd think both sides would grasp it.

I heard a comment the other day, perhaps the economists amongst us can elaborate:

Under a no deal situation, any tariffs imposed on us would be replicated. As we import more than we export, we would have a nett surplus of tariff money, thereby able to refund all producers/exporters etc for their initial cost rises. 

 

Under that model of being a net importer it’s the consumers that suffer as we would be liable to more tariffs on our goods. Of course we have a choice to “buy british” Which avoids tariffs and is one of the foundations of the whole leave campaign. But we all know that not all our products are as good and not our products are as cheap in the first place. 
 

whilst the tariff would be retained by the uk government it won’t pass directly to the consumer 

Critical  to this argument is the fact that we export vast amounts of our service industry thus we are in essence making it more expensive for counties to utilize these and thus make their product more cost effective. Just the reverse image of earlier. 
 

In summary without a trade deal (note the lack of use of the word free) it isn’t, in my opinion, going to be a positive experience for us as a country. Nor for the EU either I hasten to add. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, Ani said:

But if our exports are say 5% more expensive then we sell less. 

As I said, works both ways. The eu can subsidise their suppliers too if they wanted.

Also, if tariff money is funnelled straight back to the exporters, they could reduce the price couldn't they, as they're effectively being subsidised.

Which actually starts to make a mockery of not having a deal. Which is why I still think one will happen. Even if its skeletal initially, and fleshed out more fully later. A fudge perhaps that spares the blushes of all.

[Ani]

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

As I said, works both ways. The eu can subsidise their suppliers too if they wanted.

Also, if tariff money is funnelled straight back to the exporters, they could reduce the price couldn't they, as they're effectively being subsidised.

Which actually starts to make a mockery of not having a deal. Which is why I still think one will happen. Even if its skeletal initially, and fleshed out more fully later. A fudge perhaps that spares the blushes of all.

But all the other EU countries can trade with no tariffs. So they can source from elsewhere in the Union. We increase the cost of what we sell whilst our competitors do not. 
When it comes to imports prices go up unless we source from with the UK. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

27 minutes ago, Ani said:

But all the other EU countries can trade with no tariffs. So they can source from elsewhere in the Union. We increase the cost of what we sell whilst our competitors do not. 
When it comes to imports prices go up unless we source from with the UK. 

I've just explained how we could effectively cut our prices- using tariff money. That money comes from eu sales here. You're not saying they won't bother selling to us are you. Still want our business. And of course they could do likewise. 

We can, of course, also source from anywhere, and do trade deals with them like Japan for example. 

Once in the eu, anything from outside would be subject to tariffs unless they had a trade deal in place. Trouble there is it is a deal for the whole of the eu. At least ones we make should be better tailored to our mutual needs.

[Spider]

Let me put this as simply as I can, based on what has happened to me.

Irish customer pays £500 for one of my products.

He now pays £510 to get the same product from Holland. No tariffs, no fucking about. No uncertainty.

He won’t buy from me until all this shit is sorted out.

For a brief period, he actually bought into Boris’s vomit and said “well, all sounds good, we’ll come back when it’s signed off. Maybe”

Now, he is fully expecting that tariffs and transport will be an issue and can not afford to have a drop in his supply chain just because we wanted blue passports. He’s no opinion either way on Europe. He’s a businessman who needs certainty.

For him to come back, we need frictionless trade. 
 

Absolutely no one can assure him of that. Four fucking years later.

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Spider

[Sweep]

Get Mounts to give him a call, he'll put his mind at rest

[Ani]

3 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I've just explained how we could effectively cut our prices- using tariff money. That money comes from eu sales here. You're not saying they won't bother selling to us are you. Still want our business. And of course they could do likewise. 

We can, of course, also source from anywhere, and do trade deals with them like Japan for example. 

Once in the eu, anything from outside would be subject to tariffs unless they had a trade deal in place. Trouble there is it is a deal for the whole of the eu. At least ones we make should be better tailored to our mutual needs.

So tariffs are added to stuff we bring in. We then use those tariffs to subsidise exports.  Tariffs are added to our exports and collected by other countries. 
 

So we are paying more for incoming goods ? As we have added tariffs. 
And our income from sales is down as we need pay tariffs to the EU. ? 

[Spider]

7 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Get Mounts to give him a call, he'll put his mind at rest

I’ll pass on that.

Mounts is alright really, just a bit baffled. This bloke would tie him up in knots.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Escobarp said:

Under that model of being a net importer it’s the consumers that suffer as we would be liable to more tariffs on our goods. Of course we have a choice to “buy british” Which avoids tariffs and is one of the foundations of the whole leave campaign. But we all know that not all our products are as good and not our products are as cheap in the first place. 
 

whilst the tariff would be retained by the uk government it won’t pass directly to the consumer 

Critical  to this argument is the fact that we export vast amounts of our service industry thus we are in essence making it more expensive for counties to utilize these and thus make their product more cost effective. Just the reverse image of earlier. 
 

In summary without a trade deal (note the lack of use of the word free) it isn’t, in my opinion, going to be a positive experience for us as a country. Nor for the EU either I hasten to add. 

Precisely, a lose lose. Which is why I think they'll sort something. Not prepared to play the blame our Government game though. Takes two to negotiate and reach agreements, so responsibility is with both.

Understand what you're saying about imports being more costly, that would adversely affect eu companies wouldn’t it.

In time we would have to source from elsewhere, which is feasible, would probably be a bit bumpy along the way.

Still, I'm intrigued by the comment of a politician the other day, that tariffs we charge could be used to subside our exporters. No doubt it isn't so simple, but seems reasonable on the face of it.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

19 minutes ago, Ani said:

So tariffs are added to stuff we bring in. We then use those tariffs to subsidise exports.  Tariffs are added to our exports and collected by other countries. 
 

So we are paying more for incoming goods ? As we have added tariffs. 
And our income from sales is down as we need pay tariffs to the EU. ? 

See above.

Have a mooch around for the bbc report on Belgian potato farming. Scared shitless of a no deal. Very large exports to here.

Whatever we suffer from, so does the eu.

Like the story of the tramps and the stew.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Tonge moor green jacket

[Spider]

4 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Precisely, a lose lose. Which is why I think they'll sort something. Not prepared to play the blame our Government game though. Takes two to negotiate and reach agreements, so responsibility is with both.

Understand what you're saying about imports being more costly, that would adversely affect eu companies wouldn’t it.

In time we would have to source from elsewhere, which is feasible, would probably be a bit bumpy along the way.

Still, I'm intrigued by the comment of a politician the other day, that tariffs we charge could be used to subside our exporters. No doubt it isn't so simple, but seems reasonable on the face of it.

Not had many government officials at our door handing out subsidies.

Would love to know what this magical deal is that Mounts and co. Know about but the rest of the exporters of the UK haven’t been given details of.

[Escobarp]

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Precisely, a lose lose. Which is why I think they'll sort something. Not prepared to play the blame our Government game though. Takes two to negotiate and reach agreements, so responsibility is with both.

Understand what you're saying about imports being more costly, that would adversely affect eu companies wouldn’t it.

In time we would have to source from elsewhere, which is feasible, would probably be a bit bumpy along the way.

Still, I'm intrigued by the comment of a politician the other day, that tariffs we charge could be used to subside our exporters. No doubt it isn't so simple, but seems reasonable on the face of it.

They could be used to subsidize our exporters correct but we as consumers will pay more for our products that doesn’t help me or you or anyone buying an imported product. 
 

but I agree it means we all lose effectively although our eh counterparts have a wider net to search for a replacement supplier we have a smaller pond and not all products are available. 
 

that said I still believe a deal will be done so I’m not overly worried. More worried than I was but still I’m  ok. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Just now, Escobarp said:

They could be used to subsidize our exporters correct but we as consumers will pay more for our products that doesn’t help me or you or anyone buying an imported product. 
 

but I agree it means we all lose effectively although our eh counterparts have a wider net to search for a replacement supplier we have a smaller pond and not all products are available. 
 

that said I still believe a deal will be done so I’m not overly worried. More worried than I was but still I’m  ok. 

Welsh lamb is the best dont forget (apparently).

And don't forget the fish.

Joking apart, it comes down to a bit of common sense on both sides.

[Ani]

8 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Joking apart, it comes down to a bit of common sense on both sides.

and there is the biggest issue. We have knobheads on both sides. 

[Mounts Kipper]

2 hours ago, Sweep said:

 

So at least you're now admitting that we cant/won't get a free trade deal.....😃

Is it a free trade deal now? It’s not, but the terminology is classed as such. 

Is that ok Mr pedantic.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Mounts Kipper

[Escobarp]

52 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

 

Joking apart, it comes down to a bit of common sense on both sides.

It does and hard negotiation. No deal serves nobody. Said it for months and it’s still the case that I believe it. So I can’t see why we end up there. Not saying we won’t as anything is possible but I can’t see it happening. 

[Farrelli]

Not sounding very confident, glad you’re not on the negotiating team🇬🇧

[leigh white]

4 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Welsh lamb is the best dont forget (apparently).

And don't forget the fish.

Joking apart, it comes down to a bit of common sense on both sides.

The sheep feeding on the salty grasslands near Grange over Sands are supposed to be the tastiest, according to a local. ☺️

[Traf]

1 minute ago, leigh white said:

The sheep feeding on the salty grasslands near Grange over Sands are supposed to be the tastiest, according to a local. ☺️

Saltmarsh lamb at Cockerham are the best.

[leigh white]

3 minutes ago, Traf said:

Saltmarsh lamb at Cockerham are the best.

It always made me wonder when they decided to give over munching and fuck off to higher ground an hour before the tide came in.