Politics

[Winchester White]

It's Tory infighting and party politics over the country as per usual it would seem.

Quite.

[royal white]

Wont be long before Labour come in to balance the books! 
 

17 million on taxis to take kids to school! 
 

 

[Spider]

PPE

[gonzo]

7 hours ago, Spider said:

PPE

Tories received a £5m donation yesterday from the medical tech firm that dealt with covid.

[Mounts Kipper]

Ineptitude, cronyism, waste and mismanagement, both parties are guilty, perhaps it’s time we changed our voting system so that it’s not a 2 horse race to choose who’s least worst. 

[gonzo]

Just stop all donations.

[Farrelli]

The Birmingham council story is a shocker without doubt. Wasting money and nepotism to this extent is unforgivable. Unfortunately this will be the main defence Sunak uses now to deflect from his own governments mismanagement of all public services.  PMQs will be another exercise in whatabouttery.

[Not in Crawley]

3 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Ineptitude, cronyism, waste and mismanagement, both parties are guilty, perhaps it’s time we changed our voting system so that it’s not a 2 horse race to choose who’s least worst. 

It sad that its come to a point where the general public has such distrust in MPs, when there are so many that are doing a good job, and within leadership positions as well. Its too easy and simplistic to say it's all rotten, when it's simply not and people are trying to change it. That's what your vote is for.

I'm all for electoral reform - I'd like to look at the idea of Mixed Member PR which is used in Germany and the Scottish and Welsh Assemblies - A Mix of FPTP and Party List PR. The problem is with PR is that there are different forms, and all quite difficult to get across to the public - not because the public are thick but that folk just aren't that interested.

[jayjayoghani]

31 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

It sad that its come to a point where the general public has such distrust in MPs, when there are so many that are doing a good job, and within leadership positions as well. Its too easy and simplistic to say it's all rotten, when it's simply not and people are trying to change it. That's what your vote is for.

I'm all for electoral reform - I'd like to look at the idea of Mixed Member PR which is used in Germany and the Scottish and Welsh Assemblies - A Mix of FPTP and Party List PR. The problem is with PR is that there are different forms, and all quite difficult to get across to the public - not because the public are thick but that folk just aren't that interested.

Whatever system Ireland uses, let's copy. They continually seem to elect grown-ups.  

[Not in Crawley]

26 minutes ago, jayjayoghani said:

Whatever system Ireland uses, let's copy. They continually seem to elect grown-ups.  

They use the single transferable vote. - Basically put down your prefences 1-5 or whatever.

[Spider]

5 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

They use the single transferable vote. - Basically put down your prefences 1-5 or whatever.

“Der’s more to Oirland, dan dissonance”

[Not in Crawley]

Labour are having a lot of fun today. Happy Liz Truss Day everyone!

 

[frank_spencer]

8 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Ineptitude, cronyism, waste and mismanagement, both parties are guilty, perhaps it’s time we changed our voting system so that it’s not a 2 horse race to choose who’s least worst. 

Probably because the 2 largest parties have no desire to do that as it'll reduce their power

[Not in Crawley]

1 minute ago, frank_spencer said:

Probably because the 2 largest parties have no desire to do that as it'll reduce their power

Not really - depends which system you use, you'd still have larger parties as you do in all PR countries, dependant on what system you use. As I say, its a knotty issue for the public to make a decent value judgement on, their because of the 'all MPs are shite' thing or not really bothering to understand how different systems would work until it'd be too late.

[frank_spencer]

1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said:

Not really - depends which system you use, you'd still have larger parties as you do in all PR countries, dependant on what system you use. As I say, its a knotty issue for the public to make a decent value judgement on, their because of the 'all MPs are shite' thing or not really bothering to understand how different systems would work until it'd be too late.

Didn't Labour members vote for PR but Starmer said no?

[Not in Crawley]

2 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

Didn't Labour members vote for PR but Starmer said no?

every year the conference puts forward at PR motion. This year the conference voted to support it (not all members) as three of the main unions chnaged their opposition towards it - which in the main was lead by disgruntled Corybn supporters from the hard and soft Left of the party - as a way of getting their voice heard more onto the Labour platform as Starmer was trying to root them out.

Starmer and the leadership team (and I personally agreed) that this wasn't the time for the party to support a motion of full PR as it had to be focused on because an electroal force again and this would make that look shaky in front of the electorate - it'd allow the Conservatives to open up the whole Labour is in the pocket of the SNP agrement which would be difficult to row back on when you are advocating for more colalitions, and therefore making a Tory government more likely.

The leadership team haven't ruled out looking at electoral reform, and vote at the last conference makes this more likely certainly, but its not something i would back at this time myself and I totally back the leadership as into why at this point.

[Mounts Kipper]

I’m finding it hard to believe folk are party political, both main parties seem inept and the class of mps is continuing on the downgrade. I’d like a new central party that wasn’t and one that advocated best common sense policy for each and every issue. Sadly we’ve no one clever enough on the horizon who could lead and fit that criteria. Politics is fucked… I’m out. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Mounts Kipper

[Not in Crawley]

9 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I’m finding it hard to believe folk are party political, both main parties seem inept and the class of mps is continuing on the downgrade. I’d like a new central party that wasn’t and one that advocated best common sense policy for each and every issue. Sadly we’ve no one clever enough on the horizon who could lead and fit that criteria. Politics is fucked… I’m out. 

Such insight. 😁

[frank_spencer]

31 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I’m finding it hard to believe folk are party political, both main parties seem inept and the class of mps is continuing on the downgrade. I’d like a new central party that wasn’t and one that advocated best common sense policy for each and every issue. Sadly we’ve no one clever enough on the horizon who could lead and fit that criteria. Politics is fucked… I’m out. 

I'd say the Labour party Starmer is making is as close to a centrist party as you're likely to get.

He's definitely got the party as close to Blairism as possible. Hence why many lefties and corbynites are pissed off with him.

[Winchester White]

9 minutes ago, frank_spencer said:

I'd say the Labour party Starmer is making is as close to a centrist party as you're likely to get.

He's definitely got the party as close to Blairism as possible. Hence why many lefties and corbynites are pissed off with him.

Aye, the small c sensible tories were all kicked out by the buffoon.

Starmer is certainly of the right of the Labour Party, hence they are actually electable again. I think the hard left just like complaining, knowing they will never get in power, so they can continue with their 6th form preaching.

[Farrelli]

55 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I’m finding it hard to believe folk are party political, both main parties seem inept and the class of mps is continuing on the downgrade. I’d like a new central party that wasn’t and one that advocated best common sense policy for each and every issue. Sadly we’ve no one clever enough on the horizon who could lead and fit that criteria. Politics is fucked… I’m out. 

Don’t worry brexit benefits will kick in soon

[BobyBrno]

19 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

Aye, the small c sensible tories were all kicked out by the buffoon.

Starmer is certainly of the right of the Labour Party, hence they are actually electable again. I think the hard left just like complaining, knowing they will never get in power, so they can continue with their 6th form preaching.

That 6th form preaching still meant many voted for them at the last election. They are still there though. 
Anyway, I’ve looked at both scenarios (next election) and I’ve realised that it probably won’t affect me much either way. I don’t have a political ‘ology’ so whatever will be, will be.

[Spider]

[royal white]

43 minutes ago, Spider said:

2010 when the country was governed by both Labour and conservative. 

[Spider]

1 minute ago, royal white said:

2010 when the country was governed by both Labour and conservative. 

True that.

So why leave it another 13 years?

They reckon they’re better than Labour.

If Labour can’t do it, then the Tories definitely can. Or not.