Politics

[Ani]

52 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

Farages political barometer picked up on this well before most. The real reason he decided to run for my money.

 

This is pretty clear. The fact is unlike other parties in Europe Reform have no actual policies and outside of Farage no actual politicians. Tice and Habib are absolute light weights. 
 

Even the cornerstone of their campaign 'net zero immigration' is just another headline, there is no plan on how to do it. Habib did say let them drown in the channel , which Farage said was not an option. 
 

Raise the income tax threshold to £20k so everyone has more money. But no plan or costings to support it. I do not think people thinking of voting Reform are stupid, but they are being blinded by the headline. 
 

Cost of living, NHS, Sewage , trains there is no real solution there and no structure in the party to even think of running the country. Tice has said they are unable to check which candidates have liked crazy shit on social media because they do not have the resource. So we just ignore it and carry on. 
 

The biggest con is the 'men of the people' act, there main 3 , Farage, Tice and Habib are as establishment as you get from the day they entered school and then work and later politics backed by millionaires with similar backgrounds. 

[Not in Crawley]

5 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Typical of you remoaners.  Bitter fuckers like you will never get over it eh?

Stoop to ridicule and sarcasm all you want. Intellect? Have you been attending a beginners course which is not in Crawley? Might explain 'sociapath'.

There's a movement happening which looks likely to reach critical mass in the near future. EU sceptics all over Europe are making big gains and Farages political barometer picked up on this well before most. The real reason he decided to run for my money.

 

When you've been consistently wrong about everything for over a decade, told everyone how the new dawn is just around the corner ever couple of years, how anyone who disagrees is a slag or sinister slag, part of some elite cover up or stupid on here and then block them, then I think you've left yourself wide open for all the ridicule that comes your way, its not the way you intend to vote.

Voting for Reform doesn't make someone stupid - there are ills in western democracies linked to the death of localistation and the global expansion which has benefitted certain parts of society and left many behind which I think people like Tice, Trump, Farage, Le Penn are exploiting; and like their historical counterparts it's using the working person's concerns for their own gain without actual policy or long term solutions - because when people are angry no one wants to hear it's a slow, boring, hard working slog to recovery; it's blame one issue (in this case immigration) for every issue, solve that and we're all sorted.

Stupidity is the deliberate cultivation of ignorance as someone much cleverer once wrote.

[BobyBrno]

So much for ‘Change’

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jun/15/labour-and-tories-would-both-leave-nhs-worse-off-than-under-austerity-says-thinktank

[wakey]

6 hours ago, bolty58 said:

The real reason he decided to run for my money.

 

Or anyone else's money tbf - he's not arsed where it comes from.

[bolty58]

21 minutes ago, wakey said:

Or anyone else's money tbf - he's not arsed where it comes from.

Good on him. Learned well from The Don.

[bolty58]

5 hours ago, Ani said:

This is pretty clear. The fact is unlike other parties in Europe Reform have no actual policies and outside of Farage no actual politicians. Tice and Habib are absolute light weights. 
 

Even the cornerstone of their campaign 'net zero immigration' is just another headline, there is no plan on how to do it. Habib did say let them drown in the channel , which Farage said was not an option. 
 

Raise the income tax threshold to £20k so everyone has more money. But no plan or costings to support it. I do not think people thinking of voting Reform are stupid, but they are being blinded by the headline. 
 

Cost of living, NHS, Sewage , trains there is no real solution there and no structure in the party to even think of running the country. Tice has said they are unable to check which candidates have liked crazy shit on social media because they do not have the resource. So we just ignore it and carry on. 
 

The biggest con is the 'men of the people' act, there main 3 , Farage, Tice and Habib are as establishment as you get from the day they entered school and then work and later politics backed by millionaires with similar backgrounds. 

Interesting to see how many votes they actually get. If your diatribe is correct, it will be pitiful.

We already know that the amount of seats they will get will be pitiful. Join the revolt.

[Sweep]

36 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

So much for ‘Change’

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jun/15/labour-and-tories-would-both-leave-nhs-worse-off-than-under-austerity-says-thinktank

The NHS is beyond saving, it just needs parts of it selling off now

[Farrelli]

38 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

So much for ‘Change’

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jun/15/labour-and-tories-would-both-leave-nhs-worse-off-than-under-austerity-says-thinktank

It comes down to trust. After 14 years of mis management and waste the public are going to choose who they want to lead the recovery. It won’t be reform or the Tories hopefully.

[Sweep]

5 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

Interesting to see how many votes they actually get. If your diatribe is correct, it will be pitiful.

We already know that the amount of seats they will get will be pitiful. Join the revolt.

I think they'll get 3 or 4 million votes, with a lot of these based on their headline policies. The fact they're going to cause a disruption is a good thing. I'm not sure anybody, even Reform supporters, and most of all Farage, would actually want them in power, because if they followed their manifesto we'd be bankrupt within a couple of years. 

Let's be honest, Farage is using Reform as a vehicle to get the job he really wants, which is the leadership of the Conservative party

[tomski]

1 minute ago, Sweep said:

I think they'll get 3 or 4 million votes, with a lot of these based on their headline policies. The fact they're going to cause a disruption is a good thing. I'm not sure anybody, even Reform supporters, and most of all Farage, would actually want them in power, because if they followed their manifesto we'd be bankrupt within a couple of years. 

Let's be honest, Farage is using Reform as a vehicle to get the job he really wants, which is the leadership of the Conservative party

I don’t think Farage ever wanted to win the leave vote. He effectively made himself redundant there and then on his one policy ticket.

[Sweep]

Just now, tomski said:

I don’t think Farage ever wanted to win the leave vote. He effectively made himself redundant there and then on his one policy ticket.

Same as Johnson, he really didn't want to win. Farage would certainly be a lot happier now, if we were still in the EU, and he was still an MEP

[bolty58]

32 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Let's be honest, Farage is using Reform as a vehicle to get the job he really wants, which is the leadership of the Conservative party

I think they will get more than you think they will. Hopefully 6M+. Yes, purely disruptors - hopefully to shake the Conservative Party back into its senses.

Not sure the above is exactly what he wants but if it comes to pass, I and many other conservative voters would be well satisfied with that.  He'd go through the other mob like a dose of salts.

 

[bolty58]

33 minutes ago, tomski said:

I don’t think Farage ever wanted to win the leave vote. He effectively made himself redundant there and then on his one policy ticket.

Stop it now. Due to your wide knowledge of global football I credit you with a large dose of common sense. Don't fuck that up 

Stop mentioning 'winning the Leave vote'. Upsets the EU lickspittles on here.

[Ani]

1 hour ago, bolty58 said:

Interesting to see how many votes they actually get. If your diatribe is correct, it will be pitiful.

We already know that the amount of seats they will get will be pitiful. Join the revolt.

'Diatribe' ? If you can list 5 Reform policies and how they will actually work, you might have a point.

I will start you with Zero net immigration - How do we make this happen and what happens to the industries and places of study that rely on immigration ?

You can pick 4 others.

I have no doubt Reform will get a large number of votes, never disputed that, what I have said is there is no substance to them of their policies. Farage is brilliant at what he does, Tice and Habib and like children in comparison - think you would agree. Who else is there? 
 

 

[BobyBrno]

4 minutes ago, Ani said:

'Diatribe' ? If you can list 5 Reform policies and how they will actually work, you might have a point.

I will start you with Zero net immigration - How do we make this happen and what happens to the industries and places of study that rely on immigration ?

You can pick 4 others.

I have no doubt Reform will get a large number of votes, never disputed that, what I have said is there is no substance to them of their policies. Farage is brilliant at what he does, Tice and Habib and like children in comparison - think you would agree. Who else is there? 
 

 

The thing is, Reform are no different to the Greens, Lib Dem’s and any other minor party putting up candidates. They can say what they want,  they'll never get into power. They can still have an impact though and people have every right to vote for who they like.
Look at George Galloway in Rochdale. It may be reversed of course at the election. He may get in again though and he and his little party seem to be hell bent on removing Rayner in Ashton u lyne. (Doubt they will though)

[kent_white]

1 hour ago, Sweep said:

The NHS is beyond saving, it just needs parts of it selling off now

It's really not. It just needs funding properly. And it needs to be directed by a cross party board rather than having to change tack every 5 years. 

We might need to put up taxes to pay for it mind. And I'm not sure why this is such a scary thought for people. 

Bloody hell - Virgin Media put my bill up twice a year. I'm not sure why we are so queasy about asking the same for world class health care. 

Incidentally - the profitable bits have all been privatised now. They've creamed most of the easy stuff off and are making a fortune off it. 

The NHS have been left with the complicated/expensive and time consuming parts. 

That's why if you need a one hour eye scan you'll be sent off to a private company - but if someone needs care for sepsis following a UTI and has dementia they will end up in an NHS hospital. Strangely - the private sector don't seem to be interested in those patients.

[Ani]

1 hour ago, BobyBrno said:

The thing is, Reform are no different to the Greens, Lib Dem’s and any other minor party putting up candidates. They can say what they want,  they'll never get into power. They can still have an impact though and people have every right to vote for who they like.
Look at George Galloway in Rochdale. It may be reversed of course at the election. He may get in again though and he and his little party seem to be hell bent on removing Rayner in Ashton u lyne. (Doubt they will though)

Not sure I have ever implied people can not vote for who they want ? As long as people vote they have a right to their view, even if 'voting' is spoiling your ballot because they are all shit.

The difference between the parties you mention and Reform is that as a new party they do not have the infrastructure or people in place to organise quickly at local level for an election. The other parties you mention probably have a stronger presence at local rather than national level. The Libs beat the Cons in terms of councillors in May (522 v 515) 

Reform won 2 councillors out of about 2500 places available, obviously not standing in all seats. As a new party their candidates have no or little track record so you very rarely voting for anything other than the top few and let's be honest that means Farage. 
 

Farage fought the Brexit referendum using immigration under the taking back control banner and won. Everyone agrees Brexit has been shit, either because it was a bad idea or it has been badly implemented and as such no real benefits to show. He wants to make this the immigration election. So majors on that and he has the other parties dancing to his tune. But what other policies do they have?  

[Casino]

1 hour ago, kent_white said:

It's really not. It just needs funding properly. And it needs to be directed by a cross party board rather than having to change tack every 5 years. 

We might need to put up taxes to pay for it mind. And I'm not sure why this is such a scary thought for people. 

Bloody hell - Virgin Media put my bill up twice a year. I'm not sure why we are so queasy about asking the same for world class health care. 

Incidentally - the profitable bits have all been privatised now. They've creamed most of the easy stuff off and are making a fortune off it. 

The NHS have been left with the complicated/expensive and time consuming parts. 

That's why if you need a one hour eye scan you'll be sent off to a private company - but if someone needs care for sepsis following a UTI and has dementia they will end up in an NHS hospital. Strangely - the private sector don't seem to be interested in those patients.

Surely, sorting social care has to be first on the list to keep the line moving

And then finding a way of stopping nurses leaving the system and getting paid daft money through agencies

Or the agency getting paid dafter money

Its absolute madness

[Casino]

23 minutes ago, Ani said:

Everyone agrees Brexit has been shit

The stooges dont

As that would be an admission they were wrong

 

[Sweep]

Just now, Casino said:

The stooges dont

As that would be an admission they were wrong

 

Even Farage says it's been a fuck up

[gonzo]

I've not met one single person away from this forum that thinks it's been in anyway a positive.

Nobody even on here can name one single benefit.

[kent_white]

2 hours ago, Casino said:

Surely, sorting social care has to be first on the list to keep the line moving

And then finding a way of stopping nurses leaving the system and getting paid daft money through agencies

Or the agency getting paid dafter money

Its absolute madness

Yeah - they absolutely go hand in hand. Trouble is it's the council who look after social care and their budgets have been decimated. 

The idea is that we're part of an integrated care system now. But like I pointed out earlier, that was £600m in the red at launch. And that's just in Greater Manchester. 

But yeah - I totally agree with what you're saying! 

[BobyBrno]

Social care is a major issue not just within the NHS but with the effects it has on other services, like the police. 
Anyway, it’s not high up on the priorities for Labour.

https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2024/06/14/no-funded-social-care-commitments-in-labour-manifesto/

[mickbrown]

4 minutes ago, BobyBrno said:

Social care is a major issue not just within the NHS but with the effects it has on other services, like the police. 
Anyway, it’s not high up on the priorities for Labour.

https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2024/06/14/no-funded-social-care-commitments-in-labour-manifesto/

Where is it in Nigel’s priorities?

[BobyBrno]

14 minutes ago, mickbrown said:

Where is it in Nigel’s priorities?

No idea but even Wes Streeting is disappointed with Labours plans for Social Care.