Site Supporter Cheese Posted March 5, 2021 Site Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, MickyD said: Every country will be in the same boat. Who the hell are we all borrowing money from? Our future selves basically. This is a decent explanation: https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/britains-covid-19-debt-7801126 Edited March 5, 2021 by Cheese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 27 minutes ago, MickyD said: Every country will be in the same boat. Who the hell are we all borrowing money from? The Lizard People. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 50 minutes ago, Duck Egg said: That gave me a proper moment! Several years ago I remember a local authority discovering they were paying a street lighting engineer more than their chief exec. He wasnt doing anything illegal, just taking advantage of generous overtime, shift allowance rates and staff shortages. Probably going around breaking them in his downtime. In his Bentley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 5, 2021 Site Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Duck Egg said: Nobody seriously begrudges nursing staff getting a greater increase than 1% do they? Fiscal sensibility is one thing, shafting the very people we were begging to put off/come out of retirement, isolate from their own families etc is another. I think they've handled this one badly and I'll be expecting another Boris u turn before the months out. What about every else who was front line working? Bus drivers etc... some of those died too. Not a single person would begrudge them more, but we have to be realistic. Moreover, remember plenty of companies were offering NHS staff discount on products (to the embarrassment of many) when they were still in employment, and sometimes on overtime. Its been absolutely terrible for those on the frontline, and well into the future many are going to need support in other ways than financial. One of the best ways we can spend the money is on the thousands of new recruits. The backlogs etc won't clear themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 The issue with the NHS is that its far too bloated. It needs to be totally dismantled, still it off if we have to, and go to a system where a very basic service is offered, but anything more complex requires paying for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted March 5, 2021 Site Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Sweep said: The issue with the NHS is that its far too bloated. It needs to be totally dismantled, still it off if we have to, and go to a system where a very basic service is offered, but anything more complex requires paying for. So what happens when someone requires "complex" life-saving medical treatment, but they can't afford it? Where's the cut-off point between "simple" and "complex"? Edited March 5, 2021 by Cheese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 They get DEAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 5, 2021 Site Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2021 Casino once pointed out that the nhs has outgrown its initial remit. We expect a lot more from it than it was designed for, and it all costs money. Back to the budget as a whole, and BD's concern about growing spending away from the pandemic, I'm wondering if we're witnessing a slight cultural shift as a nation and now wanting more from public services. In itself that’s not necessarily a bad thing, so long as they're value for money, but are people prepared to pay more tax to cover it? An example would be better, and subsidised public transport to get people out of cars: not a bad idea but what if it requires an income tax increase all round to sustain it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youri McAnespie Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 There was a Louis Theroux thing on once about hospitals in the USA. There were normal folk undergoing really expensive with very slim chance (of not getting dead) treatments. The only reason being they had comprehensive insurance, the hospitals were completely rinsing the insurance, often to the complete detriment of the patient - making what time they had left abominable. Meanwhile thousands upon thousands of those with limited or no insurance simply die of cancer, undetected 'til the final stages or even death. I have no idea why folk believe the myth that a private health system would alleviate the tax burden. The private sector would cherrypick what they wanted and leave the unprofitable remainder. Put it to a vote, the ones voting for it (selling it off), should they win, can be presented with a retrospective bill for a lifetime's worth of treatment and care, going way back to when they were in the womb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimron Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 I don't agree with fertility treatment and gastric bands being offered on the NHS, full stop, to me this is lifestyle. live by the sword die by the sword. The vaccination programme massive success is because of the NHS being good at what it does. I'd bet all the fkkrs who say the Nurses shouldn't have any more money will sound different when they're in ICU surrounded by bee keepers with a plastic syphon down their gullet. The pandemic has shown that what makes this country actually tick are the ordinary workers and not the Hedge Fund managers and Tory donors. Take the money to pay the Nurses back from Serco, Jockey Club and the pub landlord who supplied test tubes and the £350 mill per week we were promised on the side of a bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted March 5, 2021 Site Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, Dimron said: I don't agree with fertility treatment and gastric bands being offered on the NHS, full stop, to me this is lifestyle. live by the sword die by the sword. The vaccination programme massive success is because of the NHS being good at what it does. I'd bet all the fkkrs who say the Nurses shouldn't have any more money will sound different when they're in ICU surrounded by bee keepers with a plastic syphon down their gullet. The pandemic has shown that what makes this country actually tick are the ordinary workers and not the Hedge Fund managers and Tory donors. Take the money to pay the Nurses back from Serco, Jockey Club and the pub landlord who supplied test tubes and the £350 mill per week we were promised on the side of a bus. The money we're spending on the "Track and Trace" app that doesn't track or trace anyone could've given every single NHS nurse a £4k pay rise for the next 10 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 5, 2021 Site Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2021 Serco- doing a cracking job of manning testing centres all over the country. An industry built from scratch to the biggest in Europe. Poorer performance in tracing, and taken too long to get where it is now. As usual, folk jump onto the bandwagon of how bad things are without looking at the full picture, and the fact that there was no alternative than to go down the route of private sector involvement in such an unprecedented situation. All those folk who came up to the plate, to get ppe manufacturing over here up and running to adequate levels, the innovators making new machines to help the sick breathe. Absolute cunts the lot of them. As for the 180m per week - the figure we know as more realistic- that should be used to keep folk furloughed indefinitely, or given to the Welsh or Scottish governments to be left in accounts and not spent on the purpose for which it was given, in case it made the situation there a bit better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boby Brno Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 39 minutes ago, Youri McAnespie said: There was a Louis Theroux thing on once about hospitals in the USA. There were normal folk undergoing really expensive with very slim chance (of not getting dead) treatments. The only reason being they had comprehensive insurance, the hospitals were completely rinsing the insurance, often to the complete detriment of the patient - making what time they had left abominable. Meanwhile thousands upon thousands of those with limited or no insurance simply die of cancer, undetected 'til the final stages or even death. I have no idea why folk believe the myth that a private health system would alleviate the tax burden. The private sector would cherrypick what they wanted and leave the unprofitable remainder. Put it to a vote, the ones voting for it (selling it off), should they win, can be presented with a retrospective bill for a lifetime's worth of treatment and care, going way back to when they were in the womb. People always compare us with the US. We aren’t the same. Try comparing the NHS with other health systems across the world that have a higher involvement with the private sector. Then come back with a worthwhile comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimron Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 14 minutes ago, Cheese said: The money we're spending on the "Track and Trace" app that doesn't track or trace anyone could've given every single NHS nurse a £4k pay rise for the next 10 years... The trouble is that the nurses haven't been to Harrow or Eton whereas the shareholders at Serco have. The front line workers in the NHS including cleaners and porters are ordinary people like us and in my mind should get 12% because that was the social contract we entered into last year. The administration side can take what is offered, The aftermath of the pandemic was hopefully going to re-structure society but the old money brigade are not going to allow it so it's back to the grindstone for all of us... rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Cheese Posted March 5, 2021 Site Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dimron said: The trouble is that the nurses haven't been to Harrow or Eton whereas the shareholders at Serco have. The front line workers in the NHS including cleaners and porters are ordinary people like us and in my mind should get 12% because that was the social contract we entered into last year. The administration side can take what is offered, The aftermath of the pandemic was hopefully going to re-structure society but the old money brigade are not going to allow it so it's back to the grindstone for all of us... rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer Same as it ever was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Cheese said: The money we're spending on the "Track and Trace" app that doesn't track or trace anyone could've given every single NHS nurse a £4k pay rise for the next 10 years... That’s not true again is it cheesey? You’re making a habit of this now. Edited March 5, 2021 by Escobarp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 5, 2021 Site Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Escobarp said: That’s not true again is it cheesey? You’re making a habit of this now. Absolutely, another complete set of bollocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimron Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Truth doesn't matter any more. Its just about who shouts the loudest and cries false facts. Politics shouldn't be about nitty gritty figures and writing columns in newspapers it should be about morals and doing the best thing for your constituents. Give the nurses a decent pay rise or we won't have any in a couple of years... but of course Serco and the rest of them will move in and it will be all about shareholder profits. Then we will all be up the old shit creek without the paddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Wanderer Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: One of the best ways we can spend the money is on the thousands of new recruits. The backlogs etc won't clear themselves. Agree with this. In my line of work I'd choose an extra member of support staff and reduced class size over a pay rise any day. Priority has to be reducing stress on healthcare workers and higher recruitment. Still think they deserved a proper pay rise. Other key workers have been fucking brilliant, but the pressure and burn out experienced by frontline health workers has been next level. Just do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Winchester White Posted March 5, 2021 Site Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2021 27 minutes ago, Escobarp said: That’s not true again is it cheesey? You’re making a habit of this now. No it isn't true but for the cost it has been a disaster really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escobarp Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, Winchester White said: No it isn't true but for the cost it has been a disaster really. I would agree with you 100% on that and I’m hoping there will be an inquiry into all of these “projects” and head roll for them if misconduct is found. But back to old cheesey, why lie about it? Slightly odd behaviour really isn’t it. Seems to happen a lot. The lies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little whitt Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 The NHS is a money pit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Winchester White Posted March 5, 2021 Site Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2021 1 minute ago, London Wanderer said: Agree with this. In my line of work I'd choose an extra member of support staff and reduced class size over a pay rise any day. Priority has to be reducing stress on healthcare workers and higher recruitment. Still think they deserved a proper pay rise. Other key workers have been fucking brilliant, but the pressure and burn out experienced by frontline health workers has been next level. Just do it. I agree in part. What folk have to realise is that 99% of nurses don't join it for a career. They join because they want to help people. Their care shouldn't be taken for granted IMO. That said, we don't have a magic money tree so fuck HS2 off and give a decent pay rise as a one off. HS2 is not needed now the working from home revolution has begun. Plus it will make Youri happy giving it big sticks to the tory donor conglomerates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Wanderer Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 35 minutes ago, Winchester White said: I agree in part. What folk have to realise is that 99% of nurses don't join it for a career. They join because they want to help people. Their care shouldn't be taken for granted IMO. That said, we don't have a magic money tree so fuck HS2 off and give a decent pay rise as a one off. HS2 is not needed now the working from home revolution has begun. Plus it will make Youri happy giving it big sticks to the tory donor conglomerates. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 44 minutes ago, Escobarp said: I would agree with you 100% on that and I’m hoping there will be an inquiry into all of these “projects” and head roll for them if misconduct is found. But back to old cheesey, why lie about it? Slightly odd behaviour really isn’t it. Seems to happen a lot. The lies It’s an illness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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