the last shooting / things that go on in America thread has definitely dissappeared

anyway

not the "happy ending" you would have expected

https://twitter.com/i/events/1371972779893944327

Suspect arrested after eight people, including six Asian women, were killed at Atlanta-area spas

Eight people, including six Asian women, were killed in shootings at three different businesses in Atlanta and Acworth, Georgia, on Tuesday, according to local police. A male suspect was arrested and charged with several counts of murder on Wednesday, police said. At a press conference in Atlanta on Wednesday, authorities identified the four victims killed in Cherokee County.

 

49 minutes ago, burnden said:

Shooter in a church in Michigan and church set on fire 

Just Another  Day In Paradis  

51 minutes ago, burnden said:

Shooter in a church in Michigan and church set on fire 

Extra points for the fire

I'd say thoughts and prayers but they'll already have plenty prayers if it happened in a church, so I'll save mine for the next one

2 minutes ago, little whitt said:

Just Another  Day In Paradis  

Land of the Free

Only one dead though, so not even a mass shooting 

But then again

At a church 

Makes it a MASS shooting 

1 hour ago, Zico said:

Only one dead though, so not even a mass shooting 

But then again

At a church 

Makes it a MASS shooting 

Pew pew pew! 

5 hours ago, little whitt said:

Just Another  Day In Paradis  

 

Make America Healthy Again.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwy747kdzdzo.amp

 

 

17 minutes ago, Bertie said:

Make America Healthy Again.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwy747kdzdzo.amp

 

 

So in 10 months measles made a comeback 😂😂 you don’t half post some shite 

Edited October 15, 2025Oct 15 by royal white

Figures rising in UK as well.

Mainly because of silly cunts not letting their kids have immunisation. 

(Usual suspects)

3 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Figures rising in UK as well.

Mainly because of silly cunts not letting their kids have immunisation. 

(Usual suspects)

Trumps fault 

46 minutes ago, royal white said:

So in 10 months measles made a comeback 😂😂 you don’t half post some shite 

Didn’t realise you were a virologist 🙄.

Figures rising in many countries, as a result of the lies of the anti-vax conspiracy theorists over recent years, and the inability/ineptitude of Health Authorities in countering these claims with decades old proven science and data.

The point here though is the US has actually put a vaccine sceptic in charge of health who (at best) puts out confusing messages on vaccines which will neither increase vaccination of the missed kids/teens or drive better uptake in new borns. What we’re seeing over there is the tip of an iceberg for the next 5 years unless something changes.

Same issues will arise in other countries as well, although perhaps not to the same extent. You could say it will be Darwin in action, but those who suffer will be the innocent and vulnerable, not the loonies. How did it come to this…

1 minute ago, Bertie said:

Didn’t realise you were a virologist 🙄.

Figures rising in many countries, as a result of the lies of the anti-vax conspiracy theorists over recent years, and the inability/ineptitude of Health Authorities in countering these claims with decades old proven science and data.

The point here though is the US has actually put a vaccine sceptic in charge of health who (at best) puts out confusing messages on vaccines which will neither increase vaccination of the missed kids/teens or drive better uptake in new borns. What we’re seeing over there is the tip of an iceberg for the next 5 years unless something changes.

Same issues will arise in other countries as well, although perhaps not to the same extent. You could say it will be Darwin in action, but those who suffer will be the innocent and vulnerable, not the loonies. How did it come to this…

I’m not the one posting stupid memes. 
 

Yes there’s a rise due to nut jobs, it’s been happening for many years now. Your meme doesn’t show that though does it. 

52 minutes ago, royal white said:

I’m not the one posting stupid memes. 
 

Yes there’s a rise due to nut jobs, it’s been happening for many years now. Your meme doesn’t show that though does it. 

Do you think that Trump appointing RFK is making / will make measles cases in the US increase or decrease over the next few years?  How would this compare to say if someone with a medical background was head of HHS?

18 minutes ago, Bertie said:

Do you think that Trump appointing RFK is making / will make measles cases in the US increase or decrease over the next few years?  How would this compare to say if someone with a medical background was head of HHS?

An  accountant is the head of the NHS 

48 minutes ago, royal white said:

An  accountant is the head of the NHS 

Ah - you mean that guy who’s worked for 35 years in the NHS? Is he an anti-vaxer? No, didn’t think so.

Anyway, nice deflection. Back to my previous question which you seemed to ignore - any thoughts?

16 minutes ago, Bertie said:

Ah - you mean that guy who’s worked for 35 years in the NHS? Is he an anti-vaxer? No, didn’t think so.

Anyway, nice deflection. Back to my previous question which you seemed to ignore - any thoughts?

I’m not deflecting. You brought up the head of the NHS, I’m just pointing out I probably have more med quals than him. 
 

Yes having an anti vaxxer wont help, however blaming an increase in the rise in measles, over many years across many countries on someone who has been in power for 10 months is just a bit silly really isn’t it

 

out of interest whats his latest view on the MMR jab? 

Edited October 15, 2025Oct 15 by royal white

7 minutes ago, royal white said:

I’m not deflecting. You brought up the head of the NHS, I’m just pointing out I probably have more med quals than him. 
 

Yes having an anti vaxxer wont help, however blaming an increase in the rise in measles, over many years across many countries on someone who has been in power for 10 months is just a bit silly really isn’t it

I brought up the head of HHS (ie RFK) - you’re the one who mentioned NHS.

Anyway, doesn’t matter…… I think 10 months is ample time to start and have a negative impact. Herd immunity for measles requires 95% of the population to have been vaccinated.  Even a small drop off in vaccine uptake will therefore have a big impact on transmission and infection. Google says there were 3.6m births in the US last year, with first MMR jabs due to be given 12-15mo after birth. Could be 100s of thousands of young children therefore not being vaccinated due to RFKs “leadership”, everyone of whom will dilute herd immunity for the general population.

Of course this will be the negative impact RFK has.  A credible Secretary of HHS would actually be helping reverse vaccine hesitancy in the existing population, not encouraging it.

2 minutes ago, Bertie said:

I brought up the head of HHS (ie RFK) - you’re the one who mentioned NHS.

Anyway, doesn’t matter…… I think 10 months is ample time to start and have a negative impact. Herd immunity for measles requires 95% of the population to have been vaccinated.  Even a small drop off in vaccine uptake will therefore have a big impact on transmission and infection. Google says there were 3.6m births in the US last year, with first MMR jabs due to be given 12-15mo after birth. Could be 100s of thousands of young children therefore not being vaccinated due to RFKs “leadership”, everyone of whom will dilute herd immunity for the general population.

Of course this will be the negative impact RFK has.  A credible Secretary of HHS would actually be helping reverse vaccine hesitancy in the existing population, not encouraging it.

My bad, I read it as the NHS

So in April he was telling people to get the MMR vaccine. As I’ve already mentioned measles has been rising around the world for many years now. People a bit closer to home like Andrew Wakefield will probably have more involvement in the rise in cases. But yes I get it you want to blame Trump.

 

Maybe some of the 3.6 million will be getting vaccinated  because of what Kennedy said, but that wouldn’t sit right with you would it. 

1 hour ago, royal white said:

My bad, I read it as the NHS

So in April he was telling people to get the MMR vaccine. As I’ve already mentioned measles has been rising around the world for many years now. People a bit closer to home like Andrew Wakefield will probably have more involvement in the rise in cases. But yes I get it you want to blame Trump.

 

Maybe some of the 3.6 million will be getting vaccinated  because of what Kennedy said, but that wouldn’t sit right with you would it. 

Wouldn’t worry - I was accusing Trump of doing something yesterday when he wasn’t ever in power 😂.

I don’t know if you’re right or wrong about the impact of RFKs advice.  If I was a parent listening to him speak I can safely say it would make me (unnecessarily) more nervous about giving my child vaccinations.

The data won’t lie so let’s see what happens r/e cases and deaths over the next 3 years whilst RFK is in charge.

This one at least isn’t about politics - it’s about life and death - so I hope I’m wrong.

2 minutes ago, Bertie said:

Wouldn’t worry - I was accusing Trump of doing something yesterday when he wasn’t ever in power 😂.

I don’t know if you’re right or wrong about the impact of RFKs advice.  If I was a parent listening to him speak I can safely say it would make me (unnecessarily) more nervous about giving my child vaccinations.

The data won’t lie so let’s see what happens r/e cases and deaths over the next 3 years whilst RFK is in charge.

This one at least isn’t about politics - it’s about life and death - so I hope I’m wrong.

He’s changed his stance, so any deaths over the next 3 years can’t really be pinpointed to him can they? 
 

Who we blaming for the increase over here? 

10 minutes ago, royal white said:

He’s changed his stance, so any deaths over the next 3 years can’t really be pinpointed to him can they? Some of them, yes.
 

Who we blaming for the increase over here? Variety of causes I suspect e.g. conspiracy theorists, social media, post-covid fallout, poor government comms…

 

2 minutes ago, Bertie said:

 

The school that has 153 kids in quarantine has pupils aged between 5-14.  Remind me again at what age you get the MMR vaccine 

RFK Jr has been pedling vaccine conspiracy theories for years. And because he's so high profile - I'd argue that it's likely that at least some of the parents of the kids who are isolating were influenced by RFK. And those that weren't influenced by him directly were likely influenced by other people of his ilk, and the general zeitgeist that he contributed to. 

I'm not sure what his latest stance on the MMR jab is, but I do know that he has already caused a lot of harm, and appointing him to such an important position has given legitimacy to some of his batshit crazy ideas. 

And let's face it - the kind of person who believes there's evidence that the MMR jab causes autism isn't likely to check what RKFs current stance is if they are scrolling social media and come across an older video of RFK Jr where he's denouncing MMR.

I also reckon there's a fair few that will think 'well he HAS to say that now he's in office, but we already know the truth'

I actually agree with the first part of this. I don't for one minute think he's changed his mind. The evidence base hasn't really changed for some time now, so it's not like a new meta analysis has dropped on his desk during his time in office. 

And then there's another much larger group for whom he's created so much uncertainty that they end up not having it 'to be on the safe side'. 

You're right though - I do think this problem is 10-15 years in the making - which is why his appointment seems so monumentally stupid to me. He's been spouting his shite for at least that long. 

@Bertie - as someone whose job it is (amongst a million other things) to try and make sure as many people in Bolton receive their vaccines as possible - I'm sure there is a degree of inability/ineptitude in the system, but I like to think it's only the former in our town 😁 I can assure you that we work our fingers to the bone trying to stem the tide, and counter these messages - but it feels impossible sometimes. And you can imagine how angry it makes us when some fuckwit like RFK Jr crops up and instantly undoes a year or more's progress by uttering a single sentence. Words matter - especially in such an influential position.

And we find that the more you argue or present new information to a conspiracy theorist - the more they dig in their heels and become entrenched in their position. Genuinely if you or anybody else has got any ideas about how we could do things differently, I'd love to hear them (I realise you can't see me or hear my tone of voice - so I'm not trying to be sly or make a point here, I'm being genuine. It feels like we're banging our heads against a brick wall at times).

TLDR version - get your vaccines, tell everyone you know to get their vaccines and consider whether the party you may or may not choose to vote for is also pushing vaccine conspiracies. At their conference for example (cough Reform cough) 😁

 

6 hours ago, kent_white said:

RFK Jr has been pedling vaccine conspiracy theories for years. And because he's so high profile - I'd argue that it's likely that at least some of the parents of the kids who are isolating were influenced by RFK. And those that weren't influenced by him directly were likely influenced by other people of his ilk, and the general zeitgeist that he contributed to. 

I'm not sure what his latest stance on the MMR jab is, but I do know that he has already caused a lot of harm, and appointing him to such an important position has given legitimacy to some of his batshit crazy ideas. 

And let's face it - the kind of person who believes there's evidence that the MMR jab causes autism isn't likely to check what RKFs current stance is if they are scrolling social media and come across an older video of RFK Jr where he's denouncing MMR.

I also reckon there's a fair few that will think 'well he HAS to say that now he's in office, but we already know the truth'

I actually agree with the first part of this. I don't for one minute think he's changed his mind. The evidence base hasn't really changed for some time now, so it's not like a new meta analysis has dropped on his desk during his time in office. 

And then there's another much larger group for whom he's created so much uncertainty that they end up not having it 'to be on the safe side'. 

You're right though - I do think this problem is 10-15 years in the making - which is why his appointment seems so monumentally stupid to me. He's been spouting his shite for at least that long. 

@Bertie - as someone whose job it is (amongst a million other things) to try and make sure as many people in Bolton receive their vaccines as possible - I'm sure there is a degree of inability/ineptitude in the system, but I like to think it's only the former in our town 😁 I can assure you that we work our fingers to the bone trying to stem the tide, and counter these messages - but it feels impossible sometimes. And you can imagine how angry it makes us when some fuckwit like RFK Jr crops up and instantly undoes a year or more's progress by uttering a single sentence. Words matter - especially in such an influential position.

And we find that the more you argue or present new information to a conspiracy theorist - the more they dig in their heels and become entrenched in their position. Genuinely if you or anybody else has got any ideas about how we could do things differently, I'd love to hear them (I realise you can't see me or hear my tone of voice - so I'm not trying to be sly or make a point here, I'm being genuine. It feels like we're banging our heads against a brick wall at times).

TLDR version - get your vaccines, tell everyone you know to get their vaccines and consider whether the party you may or may not choose to vote for is also pushing vaccine conspiracies. At their conference for example (cough Reform cough) 😁

 

Great comments/context.

My general criticisms of governments in combating the anti-vaxers wasn’t meant to be personal yo folks on the front line like yourself. Apologies if came over this way. Probably more a case of me expressing frustration in another way at those who pedal lies - I can appreciate how hard it is to counter that.  I’m sure you and your colleagues do a brilliant job in tough circumstances.

I’ve certainly no magic wand.  To me data always works, so I’d keep pushing fact over fiction, truth over lies. Perhaps in this day and age though men or women in white coats will still struggle to break through, as opposed to influencers or community role models?

Sad state of affairs.

6 hours ago, royal white said:

The school that has 153 kids in quarantine has pupils aged between 5-14.  Remind me again at what age you get the MMR vaccine 

Last one from me as I’ve lost the will to live. I’ve said a few times above RFKs views are not helping in the US in (i) getting newborns jabbed and (ii) addressing previous vaccine hesitancy in getting older kids jabbed.  All contributes to a lack of herd immunity.