Meanwhile in Israel

[London Wanderer]

6 minutes ago, Cheese said:

 We're getting there slowly. 

He still doesn't seem to have grasped that wars abroad have an impact on our lives. You'd have thought that the war in Ukraine and the rise in fuel prices might have made him realise.... 

[London Wanderer]

4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Are these Bandwagon Jumpers?

 

 

"See them 1000s of clowns having sit down protests in London train stations because of a war 1000s of miles away. Bandwagon"

Only RW could attempt to not apply his own logic to this. Be interesting watching him try... 

[Mounts Kipper]

30 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Oh, come on

Lads in a parallel universe. 

[royal white]

5 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

He still doesn't seem to have grasped that wars abroad have an impact on our lives. You'd have thought that the war in Ukraine and the rise in fuel prices might have made him realise.... 

of course, you’d have thought you would have been vocal about all the other wars happening right now, you don’t seem to be. I’m guessing it’s because you once had a football match in Israel. 
 

Bandwagon, like many of the other usuals. 
 

@Cheese yes you could say it is but can you spot some of the many differences? 

[London Wanderer]

1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Lads in a parallel universe. 

All this disruption at the railway stations! 

Not one train disrupted 🙈

[London Wanderer]

1 minute ago, royal white said:

of course, you’d have thought you would have been vocal about all the other wars happening right now, you don’t seem to be. I’m guessing it’s because you once had a football match in Israel. 
 

Bandwagon, like many of the other usuals. 
 

@Cheese yes you could say it is but can you spot some of the many differences? 

😂😂😂👍

[royal white]

2 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

All this disruption at the railway stations! 

Not one train disrupted 🙈

But many passengers missing their trains. That will teach them in Israel 

[London Wanderer]

1 minute ago, royal white said:

But many passengers missing their trains. That will teach them in Israel 

haha I'm with you on that

I don't think anyone is under the illusion this will stop Israel killing innocents. 

[Cheese]

10 minutes ago, royal white said:

of course, you’d have thought you would have been vocal about all the other wars happening right now, you don’t seem to be. I’m guessing it’s because you once had a football match in Israel. 
 

Bandwagon, like many of the other usuals. 
 

@Cheese yes you could say it is but can you spot some of the many differences? 

There's a distinct lack of morons at this one (going off that 17 second clip), but they still meet your previously alluded definition of "Bandwagon Jumpers". They're demonstrating over something that is occurring thousands of miles away, and they're holding foreign flags and signs, and the demonstration will have no impact whatsoever on what happens over there.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Cheese

[London Wanderer]

1 minute ago, Cheese said:

There's a distinct lack of morons at this one, but they still meet your previously alluded definition of "Bandwagon Jumpers". They're demonstrating over something that is occurring thousands of miles away, and they're holding foreign flags and signs, and the demonstration will have no impact whatsoever on what happens over there.

haha

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

25 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Over 30,000 marched through London in the day. It was peaceful and had very little trouble. They were calling for a ceasefire. Most of the banners read things like 'end the occupation', 'ceasefire now' and 'free Palestine' etc etc. 

The majority of the trouble were isolated groups after the main event. In Trafalgar square Saturday night and Friday night at Kings Cross. 

Obviously social media is rife with the isolated incidents and certain papers will also focus on these. That doesn't detract that the vast majority of those in attendance were peaceful. Let's not create a problem where there isn't one. 

Presenting the number of arrests as proof the marches were peaceful is arguing in bad faith - it clearly doesn't represent the entirety of the criminal and intimidatory behaviour that took place

As is failing to mention that there were also many crys of "From the River to the Sea", "There is only one solution: intifada revolution", "Smash the Zionist settler state"

[royal white]

10 minutes ago, Cheese said:

There's a distinct lack of morons at this one (going off that 17 second clip), but they still meet your previously alluded definition of "Bandwagon Jumpers". They're demonstrating over something that is occurring thousands of miles away, and they're holding foreign flags and signs, and the demonstration will have no impact whatsoever on what happens over there.

If that’s the only difference you can spot then you’re to far gone. 

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, royal white said:

If that’s the only difference you can spot then you’re to far gone. 

Please enlighten me then.

[London Wanderer]

15 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

Presenting the number of arrests as proof the marches were peaceful is arguing in bad faith - it clearly doesn't represent the entirety of the criminal and intimidatory behaviour that took place

As is failing to mention that there were also many crys of "From the River to the Sea", "There is only one solution: intifada revolution", "Smash the Zionist settler state"

Maybe try reading back to where I've said there will be extremist elements before saying I'm not mentioning things 👍Countless videos of people en masse show that the majority are holding non-offensive banners and aren't acting or shouting in an intimidating way. 

A little context as to why folk may chose to protest and call for the return of land to the Palestinians. 

 

"In 1948, the violent birth of the state of Israel saw around 80 per cent of its native Palestinian population suffer forced expulsion and exclusion from the land where their ancestors had lived for generations in order to constitute the new Jewish-majority state in an Arab-majority land.

Almost overnight 750,000 Palestinians would become refugees in the Nakba, remaining one of the largest and most consistent refugee populations in the world.

Israel would then demolish over 400 Palestinian villages to erase the memory of another society that had flourished in the land for centuries, followed by the swift passing of two sets of apartheid laws.

The first set of laws aimed to stop the Palestinian refugees ever returning to what was now Israel, and to seize their land and properties.

For over 75 years, Israel has refused to implement its human rights obligations to the 1948 Palestinian refugees and their descendants denying their right of return to their homeland.

In contrast, 73 years ago Israel passed its “law of return” giving anyone Jewish the right to move to Israel and acquire Israeli citizenship. This means that somebody Jewish born in Europe whose family lived for generations in Europe can “return” to Israel and acquire citizenship, but a Palestinian refugee born in what is now Israel who still has the title deeds showing legal ownership of their home in Israel and door keys – that refugee cannot return. Palestinians regard this as profoundly racist".

Edited November 5, 2023 by London Wanderer

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, London Wanderer said:

Maybe try reading back to where I've said there will be extremist elements before saying I'm not mentioning things 👍Countless videos of people en masse show that the majority are holding non-offensive banners and aren't acting or shouting in an intimidating way. 

A little context as to why folk may chose to protest and call for the return of land to the Palestinians. 

 

"In 1948, the violent birth of the state of Israel saw around 80 per cent of its native Palestinian population suffer forced expulsion and exclusion from the land where their ancestors had lived for generations in order to constitute the new Jewish-majority state in an Arab-majority land.

Almost overnight 750,000 Palestinians would become refugees in the Nakba, remaining one of the largest and most consistent refugee populations in the world.

Israel would then demolish over 400 Palestinian villages to erase the memory of another society that had flourished in the land for centuries, followed by the swift passing of two sets of apartheid laws.

The first set of laws aimed to stop the Palestinian refugees ever returning to what was now Israel, and to seize their land and properties.

For over 75 years, Israel has refused to implement its human rights obligations to the 1948 Palestinian refugees and their descendants denying their right of return to their homeland.

In contrast, 73 years ago Israel passed its “law of return” giving anyone Jewish the right to move to Israel and acquire Israeli citizenship. This means that somebody Jewish born in Europe whose family lived for generations in Europe can “return” to Israel and acquire citizenship, but a Palestinian refugee born in what is now Israel who still has the title deeds showing legal ownership of their home in Israel and door keys – that refugee cannot return. Palestinians regard this as profoundly racist".

"As is failing to mention that there were also many crys of "From the River to the Sea", "There is only one solution: intifada revolution", "Smash the Zionist settler state" was my quote, and those chants are absolutely not limited to a small number of extremist elements

Whatever the history of the region, or the controversy surrounding the the establishment of Israel, the country now exists as a state of nine million people and calling for the return of the entirety of the land to Palestine, or the destruction of Israel as a state, can, in practice, mean only one thing

[MickyD]

3 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

And there we go again. Criticising Israel means your a terrorist sympathiser. Christ. 

I've said previously on this thread that the far left can be ignorant. But assuming that everyone with a Palestinian flag is defending Hamas is nonsense and shows no understand of the conflict. 

Hamas' dictatorship is deeply unpopular in Gaza, they were polling at around 27% and that's even with their own corrupted polls.

Sorry but this isn’t the first time you’ve used this as an argument in favour of your opinion and, quite frankly, it’s bollocks! You may as well state, “If you disagree with me, you’re wrong!”

Instead of that, try convincing us that your opinion is the correct opinion rather than any other opinion is just because you misunderstand the situation. 

 

[Cheese]

4 minutes ago, MickyD said:

Sorry but this isn’t the first time you’ve used this as an argument in favour of your opinion and, quite frankly, it’s bollocks! You may as well state, “If you disagree with me, you’re wrong!”

Instead of that, try convincing us that your opinion is the correct opinion rather than any other opinion is just because you misunderstand the situation. 

Do you think everyone who doesn't want innocent Palestinians to be killed supports Hamas?

[MickyD]

13 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Do you think everyone who doesn't want innocent Palestinians to be killed supports Hamas?

Well I don’t particularly want anyone killed but don’t support Hammas.  Does that count?

[Cheese]

2 minutes ago, MickyD said:

Well I don’t particularly want anyone killed but don’t support Hammas.  Does that count?

Isn't that what he's saying? Isn't that what the vast majority of people are saying?

[Not in Crawley]

Brilliantly put. About the war and the discussion on here.

 

 

[Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

Brilliantly put. About the war and the discussion on here.

 

 

Do keep up.

[London Wanderer]

53 minutes ago, MickyD said:

Sorry but this isn’t the first time you’ve used this as an argument in favour of your opinion and, quite frankly, it’s bollocks! You may as well state, “If you disagree with me, you’re wrong!”

Instead of that, try convincing us that your opinion is the correct opinion rather than any other opinion is just because you misunderstand the situation. 

 

Supporting Palestine's right to exist and an end to the occupation is not (in my opinion) ignorant, nor is it condoning Hamas. 

If you disagree with me then that doesn't make your opinion wrong ❤️

I won't be trying to convince you that the pro-Palestine movement are terrorist sympathisers. That's for you to decide. 

If you want to find out why people question the West's support of Israel then this might give you a bit more information. 

Israel-Palestine: Everything you need to know - Vox
Understanding the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in 5 charts (theconversation.com)

How do Gazans really feel about Hamas? | Fortune

Only if you're interested though, you've probably better things to do👍

[Tonge moor green jacket]

4 hours ago, gonzo said:

Id say large proportions of those protesting are just there for a boot off to support anything against the west in the name of Islam.

 

Aye. The country which gives them all their rights, and standards.

Myriad other nations without such things where they might feel more at home; they're largely Islamic too, so double bubble. 

 

 

[London Wanderer]

1 hour ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

"As is failing to mention that there were also many crys of "From the River to the Sea", "There is only one solution: intifada revolution", "Smash the Zionist settler state" was my quote, and those chants are absolutely not limited to a small number of extremist elements

Whatever the history of the region, or the controversy surrounding the the establishment of Israel, the country now exists as a state of nine million people and calling for the return of the entirety of the land to Palestine, or the destruction of Israel as a state, can, in practice, mean only one thing

How can you be so dismissive of such a crucial part of this whole conflict?

Let's imagine the Nazi's won the war. They move en masse to England, create Aryan settlements all over the place and evict anyone they see as different or a threat. They then continue to do this decade upon decade until England only exists on a land mass the size of Cornwall. If the English start chanting smash the Nazi sate or Free England from Lands End to Hadrian's Wall - would that be classed as racist and intimidating? 

The meaning of those chants is contested and controversial. Absolutely in many cases they are meant to be anti-Semitic. In others they are not. In many cases people are just calling Israel out for the atrocities they have carried out, both historic and present. 

Not every person who criticises Israel has to condone Hamas simultaneously 

[London Wanderer]

4 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Aye. The country which gives them all their rights, and standards.

 

 

It's their country as much as it yours.