Meanwhile In England

[royal white]

2 minutes ago, Casino said:

again, i think athy will tell us its nowhere near enough as most of the owd uns have fucked off

Errrrr ok. Not sure I’m following here. So what happens when we build all these new prisons? Just leave them empty as we can’t staff them? 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

There are over 6,500 foreign nationals currently serving custodial sentences here

We could start there

[London Wanderer]

27 minutes ago, royal white said:

Bases (land based camps) New prisons will need staff eventually so surely they won’t be hard to get? 
 

Im not saying they don’t come down hard on social media posts, but I’m suggesting they would be better off in a facility like I mentioned rather than violent criminals being released early. 
 

Still trying to make sense of your comment that some of those being released early will reoffend but that’s not as bad as prisons filling up. 

I think you've already found the answer to your first question. Maybe there wasn't 10 weeks as things were already at breaking point? Only those with 180 days or less of their sentence were considered for release. 

I'm not sure if they would be no. If you're calling for people to go out and attack people and set fire to buildings with people in them, then I think you're in a fairly similar boat to those being considered for early release. I'd even go as far as saying you're more dangerous. 

I'm not saying no to using different facilities by the way. Think it's a fair suggestion. Just no idea of the costing, available staff and if it would have all been ready in time for prison spaces filling up. 

My point isn't that hard to get but I'll try to make it clearer. It's all an absolute shit show for the victims that violent offenders are out on the street early. It's a given that some of them will reoffend, just as they could have further down the line. Some sort their shit out, some don't. However, the government was faced with a lesser of two evils decision and imo (based on the evidence they've presented) they made the right choice here.

I hope it's managed in the short term and we see long term solutions. Whilst the honeymoon period is now over for Labour, they'd be well within their rights to criticise the last set of incompetent muppets who allowed the situation to reach this point. 

 

Edited September 16, 2024 by London Wanderer

[royal white]

2 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

I think you've already found the answer to your first question. Maybe there wasn't 10 weeks as things were already at breaking point? Only those with 180 days or less of their sentence were considered for release. 

I'm not sure if they would be no. If your actively calling for people to go out and attack people and set fire to buildings with people in them, then I think you're in a fairly similar boat to those being considered for early release. 

I'm not saying no to using different facilities by the way. Think it's a fair suggestion. Just no idea of the costing, available staff and if it would have all been ready in time for prison spaces filling up. 

My point isn't that hard to get but I'll try to make it clearer. It's all an absolute shit show for the victims that violent offenders are out on the street early. It's a given that some of them will reoffend, just as they could have further down the line. Some sort their shit out, some don't. However, the government was faced with a lesser of two evils decision and imo (based on the evidence they've presented) they made the right choice here.

I hope it's managed in the short term and we see long term solutions. Whilst the honeymoon period is now over for Labour, they'd be well within their rights to criticise the last set of incompetent muppets who allowed the situation to reach this point. 

 

And I have a feeling this lot will face the same problem as the last lot if planning keeps on being refused whether that be prisons, houses, schools etc. Then what, change governments again to see the same problems? 

[London Wanderer]

5 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

There are over 6,500 foreign nationals currently serving custodial sentences here

We could start there

Heard it was over 10,000 last summer. There's some progress. 

Interestingly read as well that the Irish are the second largest represented ethnic group in British prisons. 

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, royal white said:

And I have a feeling this lot will face the same problem as the last lot if planning keeps on being refused whether that be prisons, houses, schools etc. Then what, change governments again to see the same problems? 

We'll see.

https://www.building.co.uk/focus/the-ins-and-outs-of-labours-new-national-planning-policy-framework/5130818.article

[Casino]

11 minutes ago, royal white said:

Errrrr ok. Not sure I’m following here. So what happens when we build all these new prisons? Just leave them empty as we can’t staff them? 

id guess it'll take years to build em

we shouldnt be staffing em with PO with 10 weeks training

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

3 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Heard it was over 10,000 last summer. There's some progress. 

Interestingly read as well that the Irish are the second largest represented ethnic group in British prisons. 

There's been no progress

10,000 foreign nationals are currently imprisoned in the UK

Of those, just over 6,500 have been convicted and are serving custodial sentences

The rest are remanded in custody pending trial or sentence

[London Wanderer]

1 minute ago, royal white said:

And I have a feeling this lot will face the same problem as the last lot if planning keeps on being refused whether that be prisons, houses, schools etc. Then what, change governments again to see the same problems? 

They made a series of pledges to liberalise planning and tackle the red tape. It was quite a big statement in the press after the election. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz47p4g8lzwo

Time will tell whether they can get through what's needed. Nobody can do it overnight, unless they can bring in emergency legislation. 

I also think it's naïve to suggest that the only reason our prisons are at breaking point is because the Tories couldn't get a grip of planning laws. There's plenty of evidence arguing that over a decade of austerity and underfunding of our prison system has brought it to brink of collapse. Much of a bigger impact that planning regulation. 

Anyway, time to move on and focus on the solutions. 

[London Wanderer]

2 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

There's been no progress

10,000 foreign nationals are currently imprisoned in the UK

Of those, just over 6,500 have been convicted and are serving custodial sentences

The rest are remanded in custody pending trial or sentence

fair enough

I thought the 6,500 you said was down on the 10,000.

Something to focus on I agree. 

[Cheese]

1 minute ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

There's been no progress

10,000 foreign nationals are currently imprisoned in the UK

Of those, just over 6,500 have been convicted and are serving custodial sentences

The rest are remanded in custody pending trial or sentence

How many British Nationals are imprisoned abroad? Would a mass Prisoner-swap make much difference?

[Casino]

Just now, Cheese said:

How many British Nationals are imprisoned abroad

theyre not our problem, silly

[royal white]

4 minutes ago, Casino said:

id guess it'll take years to build em

we shouldnt be staffing em with PO with 10 weeks training

Correct, though I’m guessing there’s a few working in the prison system now who are due a promotion, maybe they could come over and help those newly trained folk,  Just like in the NHS and the military  and the police but on a much smaller scale. 

[royal white]

4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

How many British Nationals are imprisoned abroad? Would a mass Prisoner-swap make much difference?

Around 2000

[Casino]

2 minutes ago, royal white said:

Correct, though I’m guessing there’s a few working in the prison system now who are due a promotion, maybe they could come over and help those newly trained folk,  Just like in the NHS and the military  and the police but on a much smaller scale. 

i think staff retention is a major issue

obviously, ideally there are enough old heads to support the new recruits, but like most things, the service has been decimated

anyway, athy will know more

id definitely like to hear his thoughts

ive got it in my head its all been outsourced to mitie/group 4

its probably somewhere between my perception and what it actually needs to be!

[Cheese]

3 minutes ago, royal white said:

Around 2000

Where's that figure from?

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

5 minutes ago, Cheese said:

How many British Nationals are imprisoned abroad? Would a mass Prisoner-swap make much difference?

Generally, it's around 2,000 - 2,500 as a total figure; however, that includes people detained on immigration matters, on remand pending charges, etc.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

10 minutes ago, Casino said:

theyre not our problem, silly

I've never claimed that

[royal white]

5 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Where's that figure from?

Google 

[Casino]

2 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I've never claimed that

plenty do

you cant deport foreign nationals and then refuse to take our own back

[London Wanderer]

Can’t be a job that’s easy on your mental & physical health being on high alert 24/7. Especially with the state the prisons are in. Total admiration for those that do it, takes a certain level of patience. 

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

34 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Can’t be a job that’s easy on your mental & physical health being on high alert 24/7. Especially with the state the prisons are in. Total admiration for those that do it, takes a certain level of patience. 

It seems like the kind of job that would be enormous.ously challenging at the best of times

I can't begin to fathom how difficult it must be in the current state of affairs

[athywhite1958]

3 hours ago, Casino said:

@athywhite1958

id say adequate prison officers are far from as readily available as we would like to think?

Today's prison officers are a different breed, when I was in uniform it was probably 50/50 with ex military and diffuse and it worked well, you now have young lads and girls thrown in at the deep end with no 'street life' or adequate training, that is today's system

[athywhite1958]

2 hours ago, athywhite1958 said:

Today's prison officers are a different breed, when I was in uniform it was probably 50/50 with ex military and diffuse and it worked well, you now have young lads and girls thrown in at the deep end with no 'street life' or adequate training, that is today's system

civvies  

[Casino]

21 minutes ago, athywhite1958 said:

civvies  

and nobody to put their arm round them when its a bit tough as you have all jumped ship

same issue in the cops, they cant wait to retire in my experience