Not in Crawley Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 10 hours ago, Not in Crawley said: That's one of the issues - obviously there is a difference between critical disagreement and simply denying personal agency or an individual's platform. So no, disagreement in itself isn't taking away someone's agency. It's when a position is disavowed by saying its can't claim legitimacy based on something that has little to do with the issues discussed or there premise isn't vaild because the individual isn't so things such as clothes, or work done, nationality, sexuality, regionality or the press context or other reasons around why a person shouldn't have a voice. Essentally basing a position around racial determinism rather than an individual's free will in their personal perspective placed in a societal narrative context. And on this, there isn't line drawing as such I wouldn't have thought - just discursive attempts to understand positions, and firstly in a way that give's every individual in the debate a balanced platform. Although, that is another of the issues, because structual racial theory is somewhat predicated on the premise there is is always an imbalance in the western discussion between those who have the experience and those who do not, and until this changes there cannot be a safe space for this. Anyway, I'm going to pop back off to pseuds corner, now. Reposting, as either it's going to stop this debate, or I'm going to still see people defend and indefensible position because they are a bit challenged. Bless them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little whitt Posted December 6, 2022 Author Share Posted December 6, 2022 its a Piss Take from the start Send The Bugger Back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrelli Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 And some question why players take the knee before games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Farrelli said: And some question why players take the knee before games For another wrong un…. That was bubbled, then It changed to something else to cover the shame. Edited December 6, 2022 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Wanderer Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said: No, she has a right to. I'm just not sure you can plausibly claim she'd have preferred to have dealt with it privately, or that she didn't name Lady Hussey publicly, when the evidence suggests otherwise. Fair do's. I was more referring to the comment framing her as the big gobshite vs the 'frail old lady'. Absolute nonsense Don't think I claimed she wanted to deal with it privately. I had just read her friend said she didn't name her publicly to begin with. Fair play to her for going to the press, it seems it's a common issue for 3rd/4th generation British people who've also spoken up about it since. You can kind of understand why it's a frustrating conversation to experience no? It's the absolute meltdown by Royalists and the attempted discrediting of her charity that's beyond me. Again, it was the Palace and the lady themself who made the decision for her to step down from service. Edited December 6, 2022 by London Wanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Wanderer Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 2 hours ago, little whitt said: its a Piss Take from the start Send The Bugger Back Can we keep the bugger here and send you lot to a special island? There's a stunning abandoned one out in the Hebrides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted December 6, 2022 Moderators Share Posted December 6, 2022 18 hours ago, Not in Crawley said: That's one of the issues - obviously there is a difference between critical disagreement and simply denying personal agency or an individual's platform. So no, disagreement in itself isn't taking away someone's agency. It's when a position is disavowed by saying its can't claim legitimacy based on something that has little to do with the issues discussed or there premise isn't vaild because the individual isn't so things such as clothes, or work done, nationality, sexuality, regionality or the press context or other reasons around why a person shouldn't have a voice. Essentally basing a position around racial determinism rather than an individual's free will in their personal perspective placed in a societal narrative context. And on this, there isn't line drawing as such I wouldn't have thought - just discursive attempts to understand positions, and firstly in a way that give's every individual in the debate a balanced platform. Although, that is another of the issues, because structual racial theory is somewhat predicated on the premise there is is always an imbalance in the western discussion between those who have the experience and those who do not, and until this changes there cannot be a safe space for this. Anyway, I'm going to pop back off to pseuds corner, now. all this reminds me of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrelli Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said: For another wrong un…. That was bubbled, then It changed to something else to cover the shame. It’s a message of solidarity by players against racism. The only shame is attached to morons that boo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 8 minutes ago, Farrelli said: It’s a message of solidarity by players against racism. The only shame is attached to morons that boo. Only morons believe what is spoon fed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted December 6, 2022 Moderators Share Posted December 6, 2022 so mounts knows the players are actually looking to bring down civilisation as we know it...... not just decent blokes saying dont be racist cunts towards my mates loon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 2 hours ago, Zico said: all this reminds me of Yeah, fair enough - it certainly has more than a wiff of it, but it's interesting none the less - and I do love a good dicussion on identity politics. Hey, if it makes you think twice about why you are comenting on how someone dresses in the context of their identity, it's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 57 minutes ago, Casino said: so mounts knows the players are actually looking to bring down civilisation as we know it...... not just decent blokes saying dont be racist cunts towards my mates loon I'd love Mounts and the bellend that sits near me to tell Santos and Bakayoko why they are wrong to kneel. Face to face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 8 minutes ago, mickbrown said: I'd love Mounts and the bellend that sits near me to tell Santos and Bakayoko why they are wrong to kneel. Face to face. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 4 minutes ago, royal white said: Why? I may be wrong but I don't think they'd have the balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 1 minute ago, mickbrown said: I may be wrong but I don't think they'd have the balls. Would you tell players that refuse to take the knee that they’re wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, mickbrown said: I may be wrong but I don't think they'd have the balls. Why? You think they’ll beat me up? 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 Just now, Mounts Kipper said: Why? You think they’ll beat me up? 😂 I think he’s stereotyping big black men. The racist pig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 1 hour ago, Casino said: so mounts knows the players are actually looking to bring down civilisation as we know it...... not just decent blokes saying dont be racist cunts towards my mates loon Loon because I’ve different opinion to you!! Is that the measure these days? 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Why? You think they’ll beat me up? 😂 Nope they seem like nice fellas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 5 minutes ago, royal white said: Would you tell players that refuse to take the knee that they’re wrong? Where did I say they were wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 1 minute ago, royal white said: Would you tell players that refuse to take the knee that they’re wrong? How many are 'refusing' to take the knee? Players like Zaha don't object to it they think its actually not effective enough which is why they don't do it. Alonso points to his badge rather than take the knee and Barnes again doesn't think it goes far enough. I might be wrong - but how many are refusing to take it because of Mount's position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not in Crawley Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 4 minutes ago, royal white said: I think he’s stereotyping big black men. The racist pig. I think it's more of the fact that would Mounts have the gumption to put his position across to two young Black men about why highlighting racism they may have suffered from in their life is wrong. Nothing to do with being hit - unsurprising you went there though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 Just now, Not in Crawley said: I think it's more of the fact that would Mounts have the gumption to put his position across to two young Black men about why highlighting racism they may have suffered from in their life is wrong. Nothing to do with being hit - unsurprising you went there though. Quite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 Just now, Not in Crawley said: I think it's more of the fact that would Mounts have the gumption to put his position across to two young Black men about why highlighting racism they may have suffered from in their life is wrong. Nothing to do with being hit - unsurprising you went there though. Who mentioned being hit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said: How many are 'refusing' to take the knee? Players like Zaha don't object to it they think its actually not effective enough which is why they don't do it. Alonso points to his badge rather than take the knee and Barnes again doesn't think it goes far enough. I might be wrong - but how many are refusing to take it because of Mount's position? I’ve been watching Spanish football for a while now. I can’t remember seeing Alonso point to his badge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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