Euro 24

[DirtySanchez]

11 hours ago, gonzo said:

Suits @DirtySanchezhis Mrs won't let him out anyway

I'll just use the "just popping out for some milk" excuse for Leyton Orient away 😃

[desperado]

1 hour ago, tomski said:

The way the draw has opened up for us is great. A little bit of me fears it’s de ja vu and feels like having 3 games in hand, 1 point of top. 
 

That said. This is a different team and manager. Looking forward to Sunday. Hopefully smash em

You aren’t one of the Southgate in Evatt disguise crew then?

They are different characters, different philosophies in two completely roles, so very hard to compare.

My opinion does have commonalities with the two in that they have both recently gone down in my estimations.

They are both guilty of not getting the best out of the tools they have been given recently.

However I give credit to both for making progress with their respective teams, giving us some pride and belief again and at the moment I’m not wanting both of them out

[Dr. Feelgood]

Apparently St. Gareth is taking all the criticism hard.

Just rewatch the match Gareth. YOU'LL be booing & chucking stuff at yourself.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

44 minutes ago, desperado said:

You aren’t one of the Southgate in Evatt disguise crew then?

They are different characters, different philosophies in two completely roles, so very hard to compare.

My opinion does have commonalities with the two in that they have both recently gone down in my estimations.

They are both guilty of not getting the best out of the tools they have been given recently.

However I give credit to both for making progress with their respective teams, giving us some pride and belief again and at the moment I’m not wanting both of them out

I find that suggestion of Evatt somewhat odd.

A number of Evatt's recent purchases have quickly been deemed not good enough; meaning irrespective of what Evatt gets out of them it wont matter.

Other players have been picked from lower leagues and have grown into their roles, but how do we know he's not getting the best from them- they weren't playing regularly in a higher league initially?

For me, it was more that other teams worked us out, and the intransigence of the coaching and management was the issue.

Of course the players themselves have a responsibility of finding a way on the pitch, but if they can't, then perhaps they're at their limitations too.

If we start regularly buying players from higher placed teams for good money, and they fall short, then I'd agree.

[bolty58]

2 hours ago, tomski said:

Reckon they’ll price him out of the market. Especially after a good tourno.  Reckon osimhen goes this summer as they’ll cash in on one.

Hope both stay. 

Me too mate. I think they could win it again with a great coach and some tweaks to the squad.

[Dr. Feelgood]

The aching similarity between Evatt's style and Southgates, albeit with massively different raw materials, was plain to see in that last match.

Possession is well & good but the atats exaggerate it usefulness. Aimlesdly pasdong between centre half to wong back to centre half, to central midfield, to centre half ad nauseum needs domething incisive. 

All that's happened is that the opposition have pulled every player back and there's no space to make anything.

THAT is a close similarity with us when a team comes with a plan.

[radcliffe white]

Similarity both done good jobs but gone as far as they can 

[woolli]

30 minutes ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

The aching similarity between Evatt's style and Southgates, albeit with massively different raw materials, was plain to see in that last match.

Possession is well & good but the atats exaggerate it usefulness. Aimlesdly pasdong between centre half to wong back to centre half, to central midfield, to centre half ad nauseum needs domething incisive. 

All that's happened is that the opposition have pulled every player back and there's no space to make anything.

THAT is a close similarity with us when a team comes with a plan.

Think i agree with that, but struggling reading the 2nd paragraph!😀

[Mantra]

Heard Shaw likely fit for next game. Good warm up game for him even if he only gets 30 mins.

Could be a game changer for us if he can hit the ground running

[DirtySanchez]

1 hour ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

The aching similarity between Evatt's style and Southgates, albeit with massively different raw materials, was plain to see in that last match.

Possession is well & good but the atats exaggerate it usefulness. Aimlesdly pasdong between centre half to wong back to centre half, to central midfield, to centre half ad nauseum needs domething incisive. 

All that's happened is that the opposition have pulled every player back and there's no space to make anything.

THAT is a close similarity with us when a team comes with a plan.

Has Whitt hacked your account? 😃

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Dr F- did you have a heavy night?

 

[Zico]

no one to fear in our side of the draw

but no one will be fearing us

once again GS has been gifted a route to the final

it's now or never in terms of stepping up

[tomski]

3 hours ago, desperado said:

You aren’t one of the Southgate in Evatt disguise crew then?

They are different characters, different philosophies in two completely roles, so very hard to compare.

My opinion does have commonalities with the two in that they have both recently gone down in my estimations.

They are both guilty of not getting the best out of the tools they have been given recently.

However I give credit to both for making progress with their respective teams, giving us some pride and belief again and at the moment I’m not wanting both of them out

If I thought he was in disguise of him I simply wouldn’t watch😂 

I think they are polar opposites in many ways. I think they like to work for Southgate. My impression is different with Evatt. If they do, they hide it well.

Defo think it’s Southgate’s last bash. He wins it and walks away as the nations best with Ramsey or loses and the change for clamour will be too big.

I concur on your parallel of them both bringing us forward. Also that they can’t maximise the tools at their disposal. Where it’s confirmed with Evatt (in my opinion) Southgate has this tournament.

Also while I’m not sure on Southgate the in game tactician like most. I think he’ll be hard to replace as being England manager is a lot more than that. Replacing IE I think would be miles easier.

I also think it’s a bit insulting to Southgate to compare him to a 3rd division manager😂

 

[Dr. Feelgood]

3 hours ago, woolli said:

Possession is well & good but the stats exaggerate its usefulness. Aimlessly passing between centre half to wing back to centre half, to central midfield, to centre half ad nauseum needs something incisive.

Jeez. My guide dog is supposed to read this stuff before I 'send'.

[Johnnyrotten]

3 hours ago, tomski said:

If I thought he was in disguise of him I simply wouldn’t watch😂 

I think they are polar opposites in many ways. I think they like to work for Southgate. My impression is different with Evatt. If they do, they hide it well.

Defo think it’s Southgate’s last bash. He wins it and walks away as the nations best with Ramsey or loses and the change for clamour will be too big.

I concur on your parallel of them both bringing us forward. Also that they can’t maximise the tools at their disposal. Where it’s confirmed with Evatt (in my opinion) Southgate has this tournament.

Also while I’m not sure on Southgate the in game tactician like most. I think he’ll be hard to replace as being England manager is a lot more than that. Replacing IE I think would be miles easier.

I also think it’s a bit insulting to Southgate to compare him to a 3rd division manager😂

 

I know that there's more to being England manager than results on the pitch, but purely from a results perspective, is there seriously another manager at any professional level of the game that wouldn't have had us in the 2nd phase of the Euros, given the fixtures we've had in the last 2 years?  An EFL manager can go on a 5 game losing run at the drop of a hat and they lose their job.  England could have had a Nigel Clough or Gary Rowett as manager in the last 2 years and we'd now be looking forward to the knock out stage on Sunday having gone through the group stage unbeaten.

[Johnnyrotten]

8 hours ago, desperado said:

You aren’t one of the Southgate in Evatt disguise crew then?

They are different characters, different philosophies in two completely roles, so very hard to compare.

My opinion does have commonalities with the two in that they have both recently gone down in my estimations.

They are both guilty of not getting the best out of the tools they have been given recently.

However I give credit to both for making progress with their respective teams, giving us some pride and belief again and at the moment I’m not wanting both of them out

Genuine question @desperado, have they gone down in your estimations because you had too high an opinion of them previously, or have they shown things in the last few months that have made them "worse" managers than previously?

I personally don't see what's changed, they do what it says on the tin in the way they get a team playing as one unit, bring people together (generally) and impose their philosophy of how they want the game played.  It works against the teams we should beat more often than not, and doesn't work against the tougher teams especially when not playing at home, more often than not.

[desperado]

2 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Genuine question @desperado, have they gone down in your estimations because you had too high an opinion of them previously, or have they shown things in the last few months that have made them "worse" managers than previously?

I personally don't see what's changed, they do what it says on the tin in the way they get a team playing as one unit, bring people together (generally) and impose their philosophy of how they want the game played.  It works against the teams we should beat more often than not, and doesn't work against the tougher teams especially when not playing at home, more often than not.

It’s a good question and I’m not sure my answer covers it.

I probably didn’t explain myself earlier very well, or I’ve reflected on what @tomski and @Tonge moor green jacket responded with and amended my view.

I think ultimately it comes down to goals, targets, expectations in comparing my Southgate/Evatt comparative thoughts.

Up until Wembley Evatt still had a very good chance of achieving his goals/targets and my (and other fans) expectations - to get promoted. I believed he would deliver. I thought he and the squad he’d assembled were good enough. 

I know it seems knee-jerk to flip on one game (and I’ve not completely as I’m still in favour of him staying) but that one game amplifies the other previous frailties, which could have been diluted had we gone up.

Southgate has been on a great journey with England. Up until this tournament I believe he’s brought the best out of the squad, the players have enjoyed playing for him, he’s changed/altered tactics accordingly and he’s created a real feel good factor in supporting England again (well with most! 😂), after really bland and disconnected leadership; McLaren, Capello, Hodgson  etc.

But this tournament feels different. Expectation is to win and anything short will be considered a failure. That adds pressure. He doesn’t seem as confident in his players/squad (wanting another Calvin Phillips!) and showing less signs of adapting to the situation.

Of course this could (and I very much hope does) change. Unlike the Evatt situation this can change on 1 game. A couple of impact changes and a 4-0 win on Sunday would all of a sudden have us believing again and opinions change again.

Both have another opportunity to go again and show us they can achieve their goals. Both can and I’m backing them both to do so, but they both need to change/adapt. But I just have a nagging doubt now that they might not.

In both situations, the moment you falter in achieving your goals and meeting fan expectation, the moment fans like me start to lose a bit of faith and ask more questions.

I’m really hoping that both go on to fulfill the faith, support and belief that many fans have invested into them both and this time next year England are European Champions and Bolton are back in the championship. 😃

[Blondi]

https://x.com/FBAwayDays/status/1806335751275040806

Edited June 27, 2024 by Blondi

[Wanderlust]

Quote

Expectation is to win and anything short will be considered a failure.

I don't think there's a sane person in the world that expects England to win.

There are plenty that hope we can win though, but that's completely different from expecting.

You'd have to be bonkers to expect anything in a game of football anyway - and I wouldn't consider it a failure if we lost by a freak goal, a bad refereeing decision or injury to players - I'd consider it unlucky.

I just hope they start playing to the best of their ability and we know that's better than we have seen so far. If they do, and we still lose I won't have any complaints

[desperado]

1 minute ago, Wanderlust said:

I don't think there's a sane person in the world that expects England to win.

We are currently the bookies favourites.

Many on here and beyond talk about the “failure” of not beating Italy in 2021 in the Euro final.

Not saying I agree or whether it’s fair, but that’s the reality, anything but winning the Euros will be questioned and criticised,

….because expectations have been raised to that level now.

[Dr. Feelgood]

6 minutes ago, desperado said:

…. because expectations have been raised to that level now.

Well, they've done a great job of lowering that in the past couple of weeks.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

7 minutes ago, desperado said:

We are currently the bookies favourites.

Many on here and beyond talk about the “failure” of not beating Italy in 2021 in the Euro final.

Not saying I agree or whether it’s fair, but that’s the reality, anything but winning the Euros will be questioned and criticised,

….because expectations have been raised to that level now.

Aye.

Perhaps expectations are too high, but bookies are suggesting they're reasonable. 

Can't keep saying we've got this cracking set of players and ultimately falling short.

If/when we do go out, I just want to see a good performance on the day, where we can say they did themselves justice but the opposition were just better on the day.

Not starting well, then disappearing into a bunker.

[Zico]

I know how the draw has panned out affects the odds but we're still joint favourites with Spain at 4/1

Germany 5/1

France and Portugal 6/1

Holland 12/1

Italy and Austria 16/1

[paulhanley]

9 minutes ago, desperado said:

We are currently the bookies favourites.

Many on here and beyond talk about the “failure” of not beating Italy in 2021 in the Euro final.

Not saying I agree or whether it’s fair, but that’s the reality, anything but winning the Euros will be questioned and criticised,

….because expectations have been raised to that level now.

My expectations may have been close to that type of level 12 months ago but events since have dampened them, and I'm not just talking about the group games in the tournament. We were very average in the four friendlies in 2024 (Brazil, Belgium, Bosnia, Iceland) and Southgate has got his squad cycle horribly wrong. I don't care whether players are getting in the first team at club level or not. If you are leaving Mount/Rashford/Grealish/Sancho at home and picking folk like Bowen/Gallagher there's summat gone wrong. 

If they shut me up and end up going far in the tournament I'll be as happy as the next bloke. But if they don't I think Southgate has had a good crack at it now and it might be time to move on.

[London Wanderer]

10 hours ago, desperado said:

 

My opinion does have commonalities with the two in that they have both recently gone down in my estimations.

 

This is where I’m at

Though I’m yet to see an England performance under Southgate that comes anywhere near to what Evatt let happen at Wembley.