No Henderson in the provisional squad 

27 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Should be a vote for the fans

Unfortunately the fans don’t matter any more so no way we’re going to ever get our game back at the highest level. There are some benefits to being outside the PL after all.

I also can't get my head around all these subs. I remember Sven made a load in a friendly and got dogs abuse for it, they basically change the entire team in the last 20 minutes. 

48 minutes ago, Stig said:

Absolutely rubbish. I've got nothing riding on this and feel the Danes have been robbed. VAR completely ruining the game.

Need to get rid of this nonsense soon as possible 

We've just voted 19 to 1 to keep it.  Our game is in the hands of people that don't have a feel for what football means to us.

Edited June 29, 20241 yr by Johnnyrotten

1 hour ago, deeane Koontz said:

This Var shite is rapidly killing my interest in football 

 

1 hour ago, Johnnyrotten said:

We've just voted 19 to 1 to keep it.  Our game is in the hands of people that don't have a feel for what football means to us.

And Forest didn't vote against it despite them claiming it shafted them on numerous occasions 

To the extent they employed an ex ref to analyse decisions 

7 hours ago, gonzo said:

Killing my love for top flight football.

Big Ange was spot on. Any dick that says its not the technology, it's the rules or the officials using it are talking total fucking shite.

Nobody would've called that handball out pre VAR. Nor would the offside been given.

It's re-refereeing football.

Agree. Germany deserved to win that game though.

7 hours ago, Nowack said:

I also can't get my head around all these subs. I remember Sven made a load in a friendly and got dogs abuse for it, they basically change the entire team in the last 20 minutes. 

He deserved a lot more abuse! Changed the entire team at half time in a friendly against Australia. I've been hearing about the result ever since. The Swedish twat.

Always said that the VAR technology is great but it's the human element i.e. the laws and the interpretation that is ruining it.

An understandably bitter Danish manager makes some very good points about that here:

VAR is like a great car with a shit driver.

11 hours ago, Whitesince63 said:

Unfortunately the fans don’t matter any more so no way we’re going to ever get our game back at the highest level. There are some benefits to being outside the PL after all.

Aye

But it's down to us whether we sit back and let it happen or not. I expected more clubs to vote against VAR, especially with so many managers like Ange against it. But what's clear is that these votes don't listen to views from fans, players or managers. 
 

Nothing has changed controversy wise. Pundits are still sat around the table discussing & debating the big decisions. That's what football is. Yet sadly we've lost the BEST thing about the game, the limbs and ecstasy when that goal goes in. Now there is so much uncertainty. And for what? 

We can sit on our high horse and say we're glad it's not us. But it could easily be in the championship soon enough. 

Should be a mass boycott of PL games at some point. 

8 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Aye

But it's down to us whether we sit back and let it happen or not. I expected more clubs to vote against VAR, especially with so many managers like Ange against it. But what's clear is that these votes don't listen to views from fans, players or managers. 
 

Nothing has changed controversy wise. Pundits are still sat around the table discussing & debating the big decisions. That's what football is. Yet sadly we've lost the BEST thing about the game, the limbs and ecstasy when that goal goes in. Now there is so much uncertainty. And for what? 

We can sit on our high horse and say we're glad it's not us. But it could easily be in the championship soon enough. 

Should be a mass boycott of PL games at some point. 

Finally England have got someone who can run around in the middle of the park and totally dictate the course of the game.

Unfortunately it's Michael Oliver.

Shit football rules, officiously interpreted are ruining the game, not VAR technology.

What you are talking about is the "spirit" of the game and "fairness". VAR technology doesn't judge either of those. Dickheads do.

1 minute ago, Wanderlust said:

Finally England have got someone who can run around in the middle of the park and totally dictate the course of the game.

Unfortunately it's Michael Oliver.

Shit football rules, officiously interpreted are ruining the game, not VAR technology.

What you are talking about is the "spirit" of the game and "fairness". VAR technology doesn't judge either of those. Dickheads do.

By rules do you mean the offside lines & handballs ?

 If so I agree, but that seems to tied in with VAR, not separate as you say.

 It should only be clear & obvious.

31 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

But it's down to us whether we sit back and let it happen or not. I expected more clubs to vote against VAR.

The TV paymasters love it. Gives them a certain level of control, I wouldn't be surprised to see a little ad break sneak in while the decision's are being made. 

"This offside is brought to you in conjunction with Bet365"

Edited June 30, 20241 yr by Nowack
Ate - Are

2 hours ago, London Wanderer said:

By rules do you mean the offside lines & handballs ?

 If so I agree, but that seems to tied in with VAR, not separate as you say.

 It should only be clear & obvious.

I suppose the difficulty there is that clear and obvious is subjective

14 hours ago, tomski said:

Yeah ok

Thing is the game is supposed to be about skill. Nobody has the skill to judge a fast moving attack, where they're looking for the ball and keeping half an eye on the man, to the level of a few centimeters when things are moving at printers pace. yeh you can play mind games with the opponent and leave them a full pace ahead or behind. But an inch or less? That's not skill, it's pure luck. And at speed and camera frame rates its meaningless anyhow. It almost comes down to a philosophical question - when do you "play" a ball? Is it the last moment you're in contact with it or after the first appearance of daylight from your boot?

At the very least there must be daylight between planted boots. That's an absolute baseline for skill to be genuinely involved surely i.e. the attacked has genuinely stepped behind (in any sense we meaningfully use the phrase in real life) the opponent before the ball leaves his teammate's foot. So in the above case if the back of his his boot was touching the grass and was directly below the right edge of that 2nd "E" in "respect" then OK. You could just about claim he'd fucked up or the defender had done well. They could just about realistically say they meant it. Anything less is bollocks. Especially when so much subjective stuff can then come in about obstructing keeper's views etc.

Still, Hawk Eye made £46M from global football in 2022, so that goose will not get shut of its golden egg any time soon; corporate jollies for FIFA elite will see to that.

16 minutes ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I suppose the difficulty there is that clear and obvious is subjective

Absolutely. 

Like or loath is, the VAR offside system, is consistent as it done by cameras and software, with "subjective" element. 

Whether the system can be used in such a way to allow a couple of centimetres "grace", who knows.

14 minutes ago, SatanGreavsie said:

Still, Hawk Eye made £46M from global football in 2022, so that goose will not get shut of its golden egg any time soon; corporate jollies for FIFA elite will see to that.

That, I'm afraid, is all that needs to be said. its here to stay. 

"Clear & Obvious".

This dance tune the Dutch fans do is pretty catchy 

2 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

I suppose the difficulty there is that clear and obvious is subjective

Aye

I repeat what I said about "clear and obvious". Bottom line is it's subjective but that's not the reason it should be scrapped.

The real question is whether or not a significant advantage was gained by the action. Again subjective but the onus would be to prove that an advantage was gained e.g.

In the Denmark game, I wouldn't interpret the "offside" by a big toe as being a significant advantage as the forward would have done the same if his foot was two inches further back so to me and millions of others, the decision was unfair and the goal should have been given.

The "handball"? Yes it brushed his hand but....it did not deflect the ball off it's path to any significant degree so the defender gained no advantage from it so I wouldn't have awarded the pen.

Basically there are some decisions that are obvious and some that are marginal and it's the marginal ones that cause the problems. By applying the criteria of "advantage" and giving the refs some small leeway to make the decision - supported by the images provided by VAR - refereeing could be improved IMO.

 

That handball doesn't get pulled without VAR.

You can't use VAR for some stuff and not others. That's the point.

When does clear and obvious become clear and obvious..

It's all bollocks. It's either all or nothing.

No surprises with that line up. Good to see Mainoo in there.

If things don't start clicking today then Southgate will be getting some more stick for not bringing Palmer in. Would like to see him on at half time if it's another shite first half. 

Let's get behind em anyway. Our fans will do us proud. Come on England ! 

No left hand side again. Head in the sand. 

i think Southgate will go earlier with the subs today if it’s not working 

Strong bench, time to use it whether we’re winning losing or drawing 

Today’s the day it clicks. 3-0.