Donald Dead Cat On Is Head Trump

[madthatter]

I'm sorry; anybody who believes so firmly in communism cannot be regarded as any way intelligent.

 

A guy who grew up in East Berlin under the red regime reckoned communism can work but the world isn't ready for it.

 

I think it works if folk go into it voluntarily; force them, and it will always fail.

 

I find Corbyn intelligent but blinkered.

[madthatter]

That is a prime example. Trump talks about controlling the press and its written off with a "won't happen". 

 

IF Corbyn said something along similar lines there would be absolute, unadulterated uproar. He would only need to hint at press accuracy or the like and the usual suspects, the DM, Express, folk on here would be going absolutely mental.

 

The right has definitely become a weird cult. 

 

 . . . and I'd say your response is a prime example of the left's habit of attempting to ridicule or start slinging mud at those who may disagree   

[Guest]

 . . . and I'd say your response is a prime example of the left's habit of attempting to ridicule or start slinging mud at those who may disagree   

 

I'm not "the left". But I will point out the double standards employed by "the right" to try and on one hand discredit then on the other scramble to a defence.

 

Politics is in a mess because it has become all about winning and not about actually making things better. 

The right wing have become a huge caricature of themselves, which is quite unusual. But the predictability of them now is fundamentally depressing. You used to only get that sort of blinded absolute bilge from the extreme left unwashed. Now it pervades right wing politics to the core. I find it incredibly depressing.

 

You can't have a sensible conversation without the same "trite" lines being trotted out. Talk about Brexit and they become incredibly sanctimonious about democracy and the will of the people. However, immediately and elsewhere they will be all for disregarding wider public opinion and democracy and sovereignty when it suits. The same thing in America. "Obama - leave foreign countries alone we want to stay out of it you dirty interfering commie African" vs "Go Donald, lets start a war with Iran and poke our noses into Syria".

 

Its incredible. 

[madthatter]

I'm not "the left". But I will point out the double standards employed by "the right" to try and on one hand discredit then on the other scramble to a defence.

 

Politics is in a mess because it has become all about winning and not about actually making things better. 

The right wing have become a huge caricature of themselves, which is quite unusual. But the predictability of them now is fundamentally depressing. You used to only get that sort of blinded absolute bilge from the extreme left unwashed. Now it pervades right wing politics to the core. I find it incredibly depressing.

 

You can't have a sensible conversation without the same "trite" lines being trotted out. Talk about Brexit and they become incredibly sanctimonious about democracy and the will of the people. However, immediately and elsewhere they will be all for disregarding wider public opinion and democracy and sovereignty when it suits. The same thing in America. "Obama - leave foreign countries alone we want to stay out of it you dirty interfering commie African" vs "Go Donald, lets start a war with Iran and poke our noses into Syria".

 

Its incredible. 

 

I'm certainly not the right either  

 

I hear your points but when has politics been any different, really?  It's sad though I agree and why I've barely voted in the last twenty odd years.

 

It's funny you think that about the right.  I feel they've become more towards the middle in my lifetime with the left going the other way - Corbyn notwithstanding!  Perhaps that's due to me leaning more that way as I've got older though?

[Tonge moor green jacket]

A guy who grew up in East Berlin under the red regime reckoned communism can work but the world isn't ready for it.

 

I think it works if folk go into it voluntarily; force them, and it will always fail.

 

I find Corbyn intelligent but blinkered.

It's very ideological but unrealistic and impractical.

[kent_white]

It's very ideological but unrealistic and impractical.

It's no more ideological than free market capitalism.

 

There's a portion of people who could probably live quite happily under a communist system. There's also a lot more who couldn't - which is why it's always tended to need to be enforced through violence.

 

Having said that - China don't seem to be doing too bad - and having some spent a decent amount of time in Vietnam I'd be quite happy to up sticks and live over there full time.

[Boby Brno]

A guy who grew up in East Berlin under the red regime reckoned communism can work but the world isn't ready for it.

 

I think it works if folk go into it voluntarily; force them, and it will always fail.

 

I find Corbyn intelligent but blinkered.

I’ve spent a good chunk of my life over the last 21 years in the Czech Republic and spoken to many people who lived under communism. Not one of them would ever vote to go back to it.

That’s the thing though, no one ever (knowingly) votes for communism.

Remember, they built that wall to stop people escaping it, not joining it.

[Casino]

It's no more ideological than free market capitalism.

 

There's a portion of people who could probably live quite happily under a communist system. There's also a lot more who couldn't - which is why it's always tended to need to be enforced through violence.

 

Having said that - China don't seem to be doing too bad - and having some spent a decent amount of time in Vietnam I'd be quite happy to up sticks and live over there full time.

China not bad

 

Fcuking hell

[bolton va va]

The results of the divided Germany pretty much settled any debate about the merits of capitalism & communism.

 

The West thrived whilst the communist East failed miserably.

[kent_white]

China not bad

 

Fcuking hell

 

You've been then?

 

They're second to the states in terms of GDP - so I always find it odd when people say Communism can never work as a system - when arguably the world's most likely superpower over the next hundred years is currently an exponent.

[Boby Brno]

 

You've been then?

 

They're second to the states in terms of GDP - so I always find it odd when people say Communism can never work as a system - when arguably the world's most likely superpower over the next hundred years is currently an exponent.

Never been (actually, spent 8 hours in an airport there on Boxing Day) but GDP isn’t a good indicator of quality of life.

Are they still paying them in bowls of rice? That would help the GDP.

Seriously though, what is the standard of living outside of the major cities and do they have a choice in changing the Authoratinian Regime?

[Guest]

You've been then?

 

They're second to the states in terms of GDP - so I always find it odd when people say Communism can never work as a system - when arguably the world's most likely superpower over the next hundred years is currently an exponent.

 

 

Hmm. Is it nowadays a communist state and economy?

Edited May 11, 2018 by boltondiver

[Casino]

Even the lefties at amnesty are all over them

 

 

 

As an aside, one of the best docs I ever watched was on the subject of the mass migration for Chinese New year

 

Twas the one time families got to return from work to home for a few days

 

A fantastic life they lead

[kent_white]

Hmm. Is it nowadays communist state and economy?

It is when you want it to suit your argument

[kent_white]

Never been (actually, spent 8 hours in an airport there on Boxing Day) but GDP isn’t a good indicator of quality of life.

Are they still paying them in bowls of rice? That would help the GDP.

Seriously though, what is the standard of living outside of the major cities and do they have a choice in changing the Authoratinian Regime?

Probably not - and I imagine rural life is much as it has been for hundreds of years. Whether those people are happier than you or me is up for debate. I've spent a lot of time with people in what some on here would consider third world conditions - and in general I'd say they seemed happier with their lot than your average Brit. Just an observation.

 

As uncomfortable a truth as it might be - China's growth over the last 50 years has been the most dramatic in human history. They've averaged a 10% increase in GDP year on year. That's unprecedented. And while you're right that GDP isn't the best measure of satisfaction - it is a measure of whether an economic system is working. So by that rationale - China's model of Communism is the most successful economic model in human history.

 

I'm not saying I'd choose it over what we've got - but pretending they're not achieving something remarkable (but probably not admirable) is just willfully ignoring reality.

[Salford Trotter]

The private sector in China contributes more to the national GDP than the state does so it is hardly communist though the state would like it still to be considered one. I would describe it as Socialist with heavy state intervention

[Guest]

Communism as a system is bollocks.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a capitalist system. So long as there is sensible moderation and regulation in place. And that we remember ultimately it is people not the bottom line that matters most.

[Guest]

Probably not - and I imagine rural life is much as it has been for hundreds of years. Whether those people are happier than you or me is up for debate. I've spent a lot of time with people in what some on here would consider third world conditions - and in general I'd say they seemed happier with their lot than your average Brit. Just an observation.

 

As uncomfortable a truth as it might be - China's growth over the last 50 years has been the most dramatic in human history. They've averaged a 10% increase in GDP year on year. That's unprecedented. And while you're right that GDP isn't the best measure of satisfaction - it is a measure of whether an economic system is working. So by that rationale - China's model of Communism is the most successful economic model in human history.

 

I'm not saying I'd choose it over what we've got - but pretending they're not achieving something remarkable (but probably not admirable) is just willfully ignoring reality.

 

 

North Korea is a true communist state.

[Boby Brno]

Probably not - and I imagine rural life is much as it has been for hundreds of years. Whether those people are happier than you or me is up for debate. I've spent a lot of time with people in what some on here would consider third world conditions - and in general I'd say they seemed happier with their lot than your average Brit. Just an observation.

 

As uncomfortable a truth as it might be - China's growth over the last 50 years has been the most dramatic in human history. They've averaged a 10% increase in GDP year on year. That's unprecedented. And while you're right that GDP isn't the best measure of satisfaction - it is a measure of whether an economic system is working. So by that rationale - China's model of Communism is the most successful economic model in human history.

 

I'm not saying I'd choose it over what we've got - but pretending they're not achieving something remarkable (but probably not admirable) is just willfully ignoring reality.

What’s healthcare like in China? We beat ourselves senseless about the NHS but from the little I know, theirs is only partly funded by the state.

Surely they can afford a fully funded health service.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

It's no more ideological than free market capitalism.

 

There's a portion of people who could probably live quite happily under a communist system. There's also a lot more who couldn't - which is why it's always tended to need to be enforced through violence.

 

Having said that - China don't seem to be doing too bad - and having some spent a decent amount of time in Vietnam I'd be quite happy to up sticks and live over there full time.

Completely dis agree on the first bit.

Free market system is more reflective of human nature and modern civilisation. Far from perfect, but we don't have one tribe twatting another to get more land or goats etc.

In that regard survival of the weakest continues.

 

For me it's a very natural, mature and pragmatic system. Always some cunt looking to abuse it but nowts perfect.

[Zico]

Having said that - China don't seem to be doing too bad - and having some spent a decent amount of time in Vietnam I'd be quite happy to up sticks and live over there full time.

Did 2 weeks in Vietnam and got the impression this next generation coming through are well aware what making a bit of money for themselves will do to enhance their lives

[Salford Trotter]

Now we have a Trump staffer mocking John McCain who has terminal cancer. A guy who served his country with honour and also remember what Trump said of a disabled reporter. Now tell me that Trump and his cronies are fit for office...4 more years of this?????

https://youtu.be/uNXgjnBpxGI

[kent_white]

Did 2 weeks in Vietnam and got the impression this next generation coming through are well aware what making a bit of money for themselves will do to enhance their lives

Yeah they are. Private business isn't banned in Vietnam - it's everywhere.

[madthatter]

Yeah they are. Private business isn't banned in Vietnam - it's everywhere.

 

My time in Vietnam and, to some degree, Lao made me think they were living communist ideals a tad liberally, if you know what I mean?  Never seen as much greed for cash and 'capitalist' labels as I did in Vietnam!  All a bit odd - parks play areas made out of scaffolding under red sickle and hammer flags surrounded by brand name advertising . . .  I hear China is very similar.

 

I agree about the happy people though and whatever they are doing, or form of 'communism' they are employing, it does seem to be working for them.

[kent_white]

My time in Vietnam and, to some degree, Lao made me think they were living communist ideals a tad liberally, if you know what I mean? Never seen as much greed for cash and 'capitalist' labels as I did in Vietnam! All a bit odd - parks play areas made out of scaffolding under red sickle and hammer flags surrounded by brand name advertising . . . I hear China is very similar.

 

I agree about the happy people though and whatever they are doing, or form of 'communism' they are employing, it does seem to be working for them.

It is working for them. Because it's not the 'communism' that people think of when they conjure up the image. It's evolved and it embraces elements of capitalism. The idea that you can't buy what you want in these countries is decades old. If you spent some time there - like you and Zico have - you'd be hard pressed to notice much difference (apart from the flags).

 

Anyway - I was just making the point that in some instances Communism does seam to be working - just like in some instances - capitalism doesn't seem to be. Just because East Berlin floundered while West Berlin flourished isn't necessarily the full story - the outcome was influenced by the historical and social context of the period.

 

Anyway - for those that think I'm agitating for a communist system in the UK (I'm not) - but I do think it's daft to say it can/has/will never work.