Transfer Gossip

[Mounts Kipper]

14 minutes ago, gonzo said:

What the hell can anyone see in Ashworth?

I can't even remember what he looks like.

 

He did ok for a couple of games, scored at Carlisle but not had much of a chance.

[Leyther_Matt]

Was so weird how Ashworth dropped out of the picture when I’d say he’s miles in front of Ogbeta in so many areas. Williams has been outstanding in the last few weeks, though, and certainly the best of the three. Only one way of finding out if he’ll be good enough in the Championship (where he has played before, in fairness)

[Mounts Kipper]

8 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Was so weird how Ashworth dropped out of the picture when I’d say he’s miles in front of Ogbeta in so many areas. Williams has been outstanding in the last few weeks, though, and certainly the best of the three. Only one way of finding out if he’ll be good enough in the Championship (where he has played before, in fairness)

Williams can’t defend to save his life, he’ll get ripped to pieces in the championship. 

[Leyther_Matt]

Just now, Mounts Kipper said:

Williams can’t defend to save his life, he’ll get ripped to pieces in the championship. 

I’d also say he generally did really well defensively in both play off games. His pace is a huge asset on that front; Barnsley knew they had no chance in a foot race if they knocked it in behind, and he was able to push much higher up because he knew he’d be able to cover the ground if needs be. This was particularly the case in the first leg where he was consistently pressing high up the pitch which meant they really struggled to get in to the game. Everything you’d ask for from a modern day wing back.

And that’s without pointing out that the whole point of us playing with three centre backs is because it allows us to have more attack-focused wing backs, or else we’d just have Iredale playing LWB every week.

Let’s not forget we all wanted rid of Alonso because he couldn’t defend, either.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

I also liked Ashworth but I think it's pretty clear now that he won't be here next season

Dacres-Cogley has done well this season but if we go up we'll need better

[TroySwoosh]

when we go up we'll do an ipswich 🤔

[gonzo]

I'd be interested to see what Plymouth spent to stay up... @green genie

[Rival Son]

10 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

I’d also say he generally did really well defensively in both play off games

I disagree on this.

In the away leg, when Toal was pulled across to cover Santos, he was very slow to spot the need to cover the space, which gave Cosgrove all the time to score their opener.

in the home leg, a very weak clearance header (can you have a mis-head, like a mis-kick?) allowed Barnsley to immediately return the ball into box, from which Cosgrove again scored.

His defensive play is very poor and the stats show Ogbeta is far and away our most productive wing back, in terms of creating goals.

[Wanderlust]

11 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

 

Let’s not forget we all wanted rid of Alonso because he couldn’t defend, either.

Well I didn't - I just wanted him to be played in the right role but that would have meant changing the system. It's like when Elmander was announced as a centre forward and got slagged off for not being one. Square peg round hole jobs.

[tomski]

8 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

Well I didn't - I just wanted him to be played in the right role but that would have meant changing the system. It's like when Elmander was announced as a centre forward and got slagged off for not being one. Square peg round hole jobs.

Was gutted when both left.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

14 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Was so weird how Ashworth dropped out of the picture when I’d say he’s miles in front of Ogbeta in so many areas. Williams has been outstanding in the last few weeks, though, and certainly the best of the three. Only one way of finding out if he’ll be good enough in the Championship (where he has played before, in fairness)

Yep.

When he had that little run, he was solid all round.

Scored a couple of goals too, including a tremendous cushioned volley.

Strange thing though: all three left wing backs have had spells in the championship, but ended up here, albeit two on loan.

[Mounts Kipper]

4 hours ago, Rival Son said:

I disagree on this.

In the away leg, when Toal was pulled across to cover Santos, he was very slow to spot the need to cover the space, which gave Cosgrove all the time to score their opener.

in the home leg, a very weak clearance header (can you have a mis-head, like a mis-kick?) allowed Barnsley to immediately return the ball into box, from which Cosgrove again scored.

His defensive play is very poor and the stats show Ogbeta is far and away our most productive wing back, in terms of creating goals.

I agree with this, I’ll add couple of times in the first half the Barnsley winger waltzed past him only by chance they did not score from it.

[only1swanny]

6 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Yep.

When he had that little run, he was solid all round.

Scored a couple of goals too, including a tremendous cushioned volley.

Strange thing though: all three left wing backs have had spells in the championship, but ended up here, albeit two on loan.

Evatt is collecting them.

Williams has the better all round play, and is ours, so would want him getting the game time. 

 

 

 

[Leyther_Matt]

4 hours ago, Rival Son said:

I disagree on this.

In the away leg, when Toal was pulled across to cover Santos, he was very slow to spot the need to cover the space, which gave Cosgrove all the time to score their opener.

in the home leg, a very weak clearance header (can you have a mis-head, like a mis-kick?) allowed Barnsley to immediately return the ball into box, from which Cosgrove again scored.

His defensive play is very poor and the stats show Ogbeta is far and away our most productive wing back, in terms of creating goals.

So Williams is at fault for having to cover Toal who was covering Santos who, let’s not forget, was covering Jones. Bit harsh to apportion blame so far down the line. Likewise, there were about three other defensive mistakes for Cosgrove’s goal, including three centre backs being beaten in the air, but the attention goes on Williams doing nowt worse than what Santos did in the second half. 

[tomski]

Banking some Dapo money as he’s scored to put them in the Bundesliga next season

[Traf]

9 minutes ago, tomski said:

Banking some Dapo money as he’s scored to put them in the Bundesliga next season

The club will need that to pay the bond bonus next week if all goes to plan.

[green genie]

5 hours ago, gonzo said:

I'd be interested to see what Plymouth spent to stay up... @green genie

We balanced the books on a £12M budget. That will go up with the new TV deal but Owner won’t overspend on player budget but happy to put his money into the ground and £21M for a training base to get Academy on top level.

 

Swansea got 6 more points than us and lost£18M , which proves this is league is suicidal to try and compete with Prem parachute payments.

 

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Yep.

When he had that little run, he was solid all round.

Scored a couple of goals too, including a tremendous cushioned volley.

Strange thing though: all three left wing backs have had spells in the championship, but ended up here, albeit two on loan.

Declan John and Ben Jackson another two LWBs that were in the championship and came here on loan (initially).  All 5 LWBs arguably of similar ability with different qualities/shortcomings and it has made that position so interchangeable over the last 3 years compared to the relative certainty of who plays most other positions.

[desperado]

1 hour ago, tomski said:

Banking some Dapo money as he’s scored to put them in the Bundesliga next season

Craig North telling us Evatt is there to watch Dapo?! 🤷

[tomski]

6 minutes ago, desperado said:

Craig North telling us Evatt is there to watch Dapo?! 🤷

I’m sure Evatt did say something about wanting to watch him a while back. Lucky bastard if he’s doing the reeps after 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Just now, tomski said:

I’m sure Evatt did say something about wanting to watch him a while back. Lucky bastard if he’s doing the reeps after 

He did.

Whether CN is suggesting it's with a view to a transfer is something else- he seems to get some stick on here, so maybe he could be a ballooner.

[TrickyTrotter]

 

 

[Rival Son]

2 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

So Williams is at fault for having to cover Toal who was covering Santos who, let’s not forget, was covering Jones. Bit harsh to apportion blame so far down the line. Likewise, there were about three other defensive mistakes for Cosgrove’s goal, including three centre backs being beaten in the air, but the attention goes on Williams doing nowt worse than what Santos did in the second half. 

That’s correct. It’s a team game, where players cover for each other. So, Santos moves to cover Jones, Toal moves to cover Santos, and Williams doesn’t.

You are correct that the initial fault lay with Jones, but it’s a collective role to cover for such mistakes.

Your are also correct about the costly Santos mistake in the second half, but this is a classic case of whataboutery. The conversation relates to your comment that “[Williams] did really well defensively in both play off games”.

its my view that he didn’t.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Does one "error" mean he didn't do well?

I've never thought him to be the best of defenders, but credit where credit is due.

[Leyther_Matt]

2 hours ago, Rival Son said:

That’s correct. It’s a team game, where players cover for each other. So, Santos moves to cover Jones, Toal moves to cover Santos, and Williams doesn’t.

You are correct that the initial fault lay with Jones, but it’s a collective role to cover for such mistakes.

Your are also correct about the costly Santos mistake in the second half, but this is a classic case of whataboutery. The conversation relates to your comment that “[Williams] did really well defensively in both play off games”.

its my view that he didn’t.

And by definition, if it’s got to fourth in the queue then surely questions lay with the first three rather than chucking blame at Williams (who will also have had much further to track back by nature of his playing position)?

I’m not saying he’s Paolo Maldini, but the whole point of playing with wing backs is that you can balance a little between their defensive and attacking capabilities. But it just happens he’s the one who’s turn it is to be scapegoat - for most of the season, in fact - despite scoring some bloody vital goals in that time that wouldn’t have happened with a more defensively-minded player.