Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: What this deal appears to do is completely remove the backstop in favour of giving Northern Ireland a say on a time-limited arrangement. And that Northern Ireland is now in a hybrid customs territory, but crucially with no checks at the border with Ireland. The vetos require a majority vote in the assembly - and if not they are locked in for 4 more years. Given Unionists wouldn't have a veto in effect this would be permanent and NI would be locked into EU customs union in practical terms. Quote
Mounts Kipper Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, bwfcfan5 said: The vetos require a majority vote in the assembly - and if not they are locked in for 4 more years. Given Unionists wouldn't have a veto in effect this would be permanent and NI would be locked into EU customs union in practical terms. If that is the majority view in Northern Ireland then so be it. Quote
Spider Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said: I couldn’t give a fuck about Northern Ireland then so be it. Quote
Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Looking forward to a really meaningful Saturday morning Watching the rugby Quote
Cheese Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: What this deal appears to do is completely remove the backstop in favour of giving Northern Ireland a say on a time-limited arrangement. And that Northern Ireland is now in a hybrid customs territory, but crucially with no checks at the border with Ireland. Where did you copy and paste that from? Quote
Mounts Kipper Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Cheese said: Where did you copy and paste that from? Does it matter? Your point was that it was a permanent, it seems you were wrong from everything I have read. Quote
Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Mounts Kipper said: Does it matter? Your point was that it was a permanent, it seems you were wrong from everything I have read. May's deal put in legal terms it was temporary until other arrangements were found. This arrangement is intended to be permanent unless vetoed - but in practical terms it is essentially permanent - there is a technical way out - but in reality no way out. Quote
Mounts Kipper Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Spider said: On the contrary it gives Northern Ireland the chance to vote on what they feel is best for them, there was always going to have to be a fudge given the complexity of the situation and what the EU and the UK government were prepared to accept. Quote
Spider Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 The Irish are viewing it as permanent, in case anyone actually gives a fuck. Quote
Mounts Kipper Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, bwfcfan5 said: May's deal put in legal terms it was temporary until other arrangements were found. This arrangement is intended to be permanent unless vetoed - but in practical terms it is essentially permanent - there is a technical way out - but in reality no way out. A veto is available and that means it is not permanent. Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Mounts Kipper said: A veto is available and that means it is not permanent. No longer arsed debating mate. Pointless. Every and any deal involves compromise. Hearing a hint that the EU doesn't want to keep things going for months more, although nothing official. Time for parliament to sort it out. Quote
Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: No longer arsed debating mate. Pointless. Every and any deal involves compromise. Hearing a hint that the EU doesn't want to keep things going for months more, although nothing official. Time for parliament to sort it out. That they have voted to sit on Saturday indicates that this might carry Quote
Mounts Kipper Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said: No longer arsed debating mate. Pointless. Every and any deal involves compromise. Hearing a hint that the EU doesn't want to keep things going for months more, although nothing official. Time for parliament to sort it out. The EU have to tell parliament it is this deal or no deal and no extension, although this might lead parliament to attempt for another referendum. Edited October 17, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote
Cheese Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Does it matter? Your point was that it was a permanent, it seems you were wrong from everything I have read. Yes, it matters. Are you too embarrassed to say? Edit: It's ok, I found it. You could have just said, you silly sausage. Edited October 17, 2019 by Cheese Quote
Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: A veto is available and that means it is not permanent. But a veto that can and will never be carried....its catch 22. The only way out is a simple majority veto - but the nationalists will never vote for one - and thus a veto can never be obtained. Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, boltondiver said: That they have voted to sit on Saturday indicates that this might carry Aye. Going to be tight. Mounts' point about them possibly plumping for another referendum, is something just mentioned on the BBC. Some would take that as opposed to a no deal. That would need an amendment, which might get through but didn't receive support previously. And there it is. Juncker just said no extension as I type. Quote
Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, boltondiver said: That they have voted to sit on Saturday indicates that this might carry I think its going to because ultimately its too risky for anyone wanting to avoid no deal or no brexit to not vote for this. I don't think anyone who is unhappy with the deal (which will be most for one reason or another) can say with any certainty what happens if they vote against it. The ERG cannot guarantee Brexit will ever happen. Nor can the Labour backbenchers do anything to completely rule out a no deal exit in the future especially following a GE or refusal from the EU to extend further. So I don't see enough people able to hold their principles here to see it not passing. I don't think we should leave but I'd vote for this - not because its a good deal - it isn't and Boris said so less than a year ago - but because its the only certainty to avoid a disaster. I don't blame any MP who votes against it - there are very good reasons to. But I think enough of them now will realise that if they reject it they have screwed their chance to really stop one thing or another. However, the complication might be the government have lost the vote on amendments so amendments can be added to the WAB - its unlikely but possible that some amendments unite enough MPs to vote for the deal with said amendment. That could be tricky..... Quote
Mounts Kipper Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Juncker just ruled out an extension. Quote
Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Mounts Kipper said: Juncker just ruled out an extension. Did he? I think saying no need for one now we have a deal is different to saying "vote this down and that's it". But we'll see. Quote
Cheese Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Juncker just ruled out an extension. He ruled one out last time too. It's not in his power to make that decision if we ask for one. Edited October 17, 2019 by Cheese Quote
Salford Trotter Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Juncker just ruled out an extension. So no point in the debate/vote at the weekend then. This is heading for a confirmatory vote at a rate of knots Quote
royal white Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 A sharp rise in the pound today, I hope all those who have said the elite are using BREXIT to make millions off the £-$ managed to make a few quid themselves off the back of their predictions. Quote
kent_white Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 54 minutes ago, Cheese said: Where did you copy and paste that from? https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/107335/explained-what-new-brexit-deal-and-how-does-it-solve From experience at uni Mounts. At least change a few words if you're going to pass it off as your own work! Quote
Mounts Kipper Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Just now, kent_white said: https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/107335/explained-what-new-brexit-deal-and-how-does-it-solve From experience at uni Mounts. At least change a few words if you're going to pass it off as your own work! I wasn't trying to pass it off as my own work. Thats why it was in a different font. Edited October 17, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote
Ani Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 We had a deal that everyone said was shit it was rejected we have another deal which is the original deal but we have made further concessions and we are going to vote on that now ? is that a fair summary ? Quote
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