Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Ah, now saying DUP still not on board! Quote
Spider Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 If it's a deal Juncker likes, you can be assured it's not the Brexit anyone voted for. Uncle Dickhead will no doubt try to stop it on Saturday anyway. Quote
Sweep Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Just been announced that a deal has been agreed!! So fresh, that it's not yet known if or how exactly satisfies the DUP. As Johnson has announced its been done, it must be true. Thank god, let's get this done Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Spider said: If it's a deal Juncker likes, you can be assured it's not the Brexit anyone voted for. Uncle Dickhead will no doubt try to stop it on Saturday anyway. No one voted for any particular deal remember. Nothing that's agreed will satisfy anyone completely. Time to bite the bullet and get on. That's said it's got to be good enough for everyone concerned. Whether the DUP are just grandstanding, or have a genuine grievance, we just don't know. Guess we'll find out soon enough. Quote
Jol_BWFC Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 I don’t see why people are finding this hard to follow. Boris doesn’t need the deal to get through Parliament to get what he (and Cummings) wants. He needs a deal agreed between him and the EU, which he can claim is great for the UK (whether it is or isn’t). Now he has that. If parliament rejects the deal (even if it’s because he has screwed NI over), it will simply play into his “Boris versus the establishment” position, which he is going to use to try and win the inevitable general election that will follow. He can claim we would have left on 31 October had it not been for the treacherous House of Commons. Make no mistake, this is all about Boris getting what Boris wants - 5 years as PM. It’s not about Brexit itself. And if, somehow, the deal goes through Parliament he will then use “I beat the establishment and delivered Brexit when previous leaders couldn’t” as his campaign. Quote
Spider Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Text I've just had from a bloke who lives/works on the border every day (verbatim): "This goes through, it'll be like the wild fuckin west over here within a month. These people simply don't understand this part of the world the fucking clowns" Quote
Farrelli Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 16 minutes ago, Spider said: Text I've just had from a bloke who lives/works on the border every day (verbatim): "This goes through, it'll be like the wild fuckin west over here within a month. These people simply don't understand this part of the world the fucking clowns" This could be the biggest boost for a United Ireland since Bloody Sunday. Quote
Sweep Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, Spider said: Text I've just had from a bloke who lives/works on the border every day (verbatim): "This goes through, it'll be like the wild fuckin west over here within a month. These people simply don't understand this part of the world the fucking clowns" Tough Shit Quote
Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 38 minutes ago, Jol_BWFC said: I don’t see why people are finding this hard to follow. Boris doesn’t need the deal to get through Parliament to get what he (and Cummings) wants. He needs a deal agreed between him and the EU, which he can claim is great for the UK (whether it is or isn’t). Now he has that. If parliament rejects the deal (even if it’s because he has screwed NI over), it will simply play into his “Boris versus the establishment” position, which he is going to use to try and win the inevitable general election that will follow. He can claim we would have left on 31 October had it not been for the treacherous House of Commons. Make no mistake, this is all about Boris getting what Boris wants - 5 years as PM. It’s not about Brexit itself. And if, somehow, the deal goes through Parliament he will then use “I beat the establishment and delivered Brexit when previous leaders couldn’t” as his campaign. Well quite. However for those who believe a no deal exit is a disaster this is a deal that avoids it. It completely u-turns every principle Boris had only a few months back but we know Boris doesn't believe in any single thing other than his own hunger for power. But fundamentally this is a deal that screws NI, puts a border down the Irish sea that was a few months ago the most un-conservative thing to do ever and offers no real long standing protections for standards and market access. Its still better than a no-deal exit. The opposition have to decide whether a no deal exit is worth risking now because the risk of that is great if they don't support this. Especially as they can't seem to come together in a meaningful way to force another option. I do think this has a good chance of getting through but if the DUP hold out it comes down to the backbench Labour rebels vs how many of the ERG object. And I worry that deep down Boris and Cummings want this voted down - so it might be better to call their bluff and vote for it now. Quote
Escobarp Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Labour MP on radio just now. Asked Will you vote for the deal? No. Why not? I won’t vote for any deal. Brexit is a mistake. Democracy at its beat i don’t believe Boris wants this deal. Wants and expects it to be shot down by Labour et al and then this gives him the ammunition to unite the leave vote in a general election gain a majority and take us out without a deal which isn’t great for any of us in reality. But it’s what is going to happen Quote
Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Escobarp said: Labour MP on radio just now. Asked Will you vote for the deal? No. Why not? I won’t vote for any deal. Brexit is a mistake. Democracy at its beat i don’t believe Boris wants this deal. Wants and expects it to be shot down by Labour et al and then this gives him the ammunition to unite the leave vote in a general election gain a majority and take us out without a deal which isn’t great for any of us in reality. But it’s what is going to happen Its fair enough for any MP to take that view. I'd probably vote for this if I was an MP inspite of grave reservations about it - but the alternative is too unpredictable. Giving Boris a mandate for no deal as you say would not be a bright idea. Quote
Escobarp Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Said it a couple of weeks ago. Cummins is a very good strategist. People are focusing on the wrong thing here. “Boris said he wouldn’t do this and wouldn’t do that” “hes gone back on his word”. Hes no desire to implement this deal and they intend on taking us out without a deal and he’s being given everything he needs to do so by Labour etc. agree with BD they are playing an absolute blinder and those opposing this are too stupid or blinded by their desire to block the democratic will of the people to see what they are doing and what they are effectively teeing him up for Quote
Escobarp Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Anyway now we’ve a deal agreed let’s take it back to the people for confirmation. A) leave with this deal b) leave with no deal that’s the confirmatory referendum that we should be looking for simple a or b. Quote
Cheese Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 It's funny watching Brexiters get excited again. Quote
Spider Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Anyone read the agreement? Look at Article 12 sections 6 & 7 There's a loophole the size of the London Eye in there about European lawyers making decisions on British soil. Boris has been bent over and completely creamed. Quote
Escobarp Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Not as funny as watching the reaction of remainers in due course I assure you Quote
Escobarp Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Spider said: Anyone read the agreement? Look at Article 12 sections 6 & 7 There's a loophole the size of the London Eye in there about European lawyers making decisions on British soil. Boris has been bent over and completely creamed. Boris expects and wants this to get voted down. He’s not been bent anywhere. Quote
Spider Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 My point is that this deal is all about the detail, and the detail will be ignored by 99% of people. Hardcore Brexiters don't want Brussels involvement with UK process, this deal allows it. Backdoor, but it's allowed. Quote
Salford Trotter Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 16 minutes ago, Escobarp said: Labour MP on radio just now. Asked Will you vote for the deal? No. Why not? I won’t vote for any deal. Brexit is a mistake. Democracy at its beat i don’t believe Boris wants this deal. Wants and expects it to be shot down by Labour et al and then this gives him the ammunition to unite the leave vote in a general election gain a majority and take us out without a deal which isn’t great for any of us in reality. But it’s what is going to happen If it plays out the way you suggest and he campaigns on a No Deal election manifesto there is no way he is getting a majority. For me, I wouldn't put it beyond parliament to delay the deadline until January and in coming weeks take over the order paper and legislate for a second referendum in the meantime with Johnson's deal or remain as the two options. The mood of the electorate is moving towards remain as younger voters are coming of age. Quote
Escobarp Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Not disputing that spider. But I don’t think Labour snp lib dems will read it whatever it put in it. So he could put his selections for his lucky 15 on Saturday in there and no one will notice. (I jest). It’s getting rejected without any deal debate or hope it will be passed we go to a general election Boris wins a majority and we leave with no deal. Wonderful times ahead Quote
Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, Escobarp said: Said it a couple of weeks ago. Cummins is a very good strategist. People are focusing on the wrong thing here. “Boris said he wouldn’t do this and wouldn’t do that” “hes gone back on his word”. Hes no desire to implement this deal and they intend on taking us out without a deal and he’s being given everything he needs to do so by Labour etc. agree with BD they are playing an absolute blinder and those opposing this are too stupid or blinded by their desire to block the democratic will of the people to see what they are doing and what they are effectively teeing him up for So this is about a silly political game and oneupmanship and not about the future of the country? Christ alive. That’s not strategy it’s just stupidity. Boris made major concessions to get a deal because he had to. What’s his other choice here? He’s been backed into a political corner and agreed a deal he previously had said was against everything Tories stood for re the union. Now he may hope it’s voted down but that still leaves him politically exposed especially if his DUP allies are part of those voting against it. Quote
Escobarp Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Salford Trotter said: If it plays out the way you suggest and he campaigns on a No Deal election manifesto there is no way he is getting a majority. For me, I wouldn't put it beyond parliament to delay the deadline until January and in coming weeks take over the order paper and legislate for a second referendum in the meantime with Johnson's deal or remain as the two options. The mood of the electorate is moving towards remain as younger voters are coming of age. But again remain shouldn’t be an option Pete. Without wanting to open up hundreds of pages of the same rhetoric again we voted to leave and leave we should. It should be deal or no deal on a confirmatory referendum. Quote
Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Farage says it’s a bad deal that locks us into regulatory alignment. He wants to extend rather than accept this. Has a familiar feeling here. There is no deal Brexiteers can accept because they never lived in reality and fed lies to the electorate. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.