Escobarp Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, bwfcfan5 said: So this is about a silly political game and oneupmanship and not about the future of the country? Christ alive. That’s not strategy it’s just stupidity. So Labour lib dems and snp refusing to accept any deal no matter what is in it isn’t exactly that? Politically driven stupidity? Or is it just Boris? theyre all guilty of fucking this up Quote
Spider Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 I agree that Boris could get a deal that guarantees everyone a million pounds apiece and immediate retirement and they'd reject it. But if his bluff were to be called, that deal is absolute cowshit. Quote
Cheese Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Farage says it’s a bad deal that locks us into regulatory alignment. He wants to extend rather than accept this. And with that, a few million Brexiters' brains exploded. Quote
Salford Trotter Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, Escobarp said: But again remain shouldn’t be an option Pete. Without wanting to open up hundreds of pages of the same rhetoric again we voted to leave and leave we should. It should be deal or no deal on a confirmatory referendum. Lets see how it goes Stu, like you said we can open up a can or worms if we go back over old ground. Quote
Sweep Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, Escobarp said: It’s getting rejected without any deal debate or hope it will be passed we go to a general election Boris wins a majority and we leave with no deal. Wonderful times ahead Surely not... A couple of people on here have recently been giving Mounts a virtual wank, based on him being "right all along" about us getting a deal. Is the train of thought now that this is now all about us leaving without a deal? Quote
Spider Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, Sweep said: Surely not... A couple of people on here have recently been giving Mounts a virtual wank, based on him being "right all along" about us getting a deal. Is the train of thought now that this is now all about us leaving without a deal? Hang on Who DIDN'T think we'd get a deal? Of course there was always going to be a deal of some description. That problem is that the deal - as all of them have been - is bobbins. Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Sweep said: Surely not... A couple of people on here have recently been giving Mounts a virtual wank, based on him being "right all along" about us getting a deal. Is the train of thought now that this is now all about us leaving without a deal? I don't agree that if it is rejected, Boris would stand with no deal as an aim. Don't think he'd get a majority. Reckon he'd stand on the deal as being the platform. One thing that isn't being discussed much, is the chance that the EU refuses an extension. Perhaps this is how Boris intends to take us out by end of the month. Who knows what has been cooked up in the tunnel. The fear of no deal may make a few think twice. Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Spider said: Hang on Who DIDN'T think we'd get a deal? Of course there was always going to be a deal of some description. That problem is that the deal - as all of them have been - is bobbins. You said a few times recently it would be no deal. And you may yet be right. Quote
Ani Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Why has he made concessions to the EU ? They were happy with old deal. 🙄😒 does now need to take a deal that is worse than previous back to parliament? wonder if the rules about tax avoidance have been lost along the way. Quote
Spider Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: You said a few times recently it would be no deal. And you may yet be right. People - and I include myself in this - vastly underestimated the extent of the Irish problem. It started to become clear when I began losing customers and delved into the reasons in more detail. Bottom line, we are hamstrung by our colonial past. No Irish problem, no Brexit problem. We'd have long since left and be supping ambrosia in our golden palaces by now. However, it's like saying you can run a marathon whilst tied to the floor. Just too tricky. Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Concessions on his initial proposals? Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Spider said: People - and I include myself in this - vastly underestimated the extent of the Irish problem. It started to become clear when I began losing customers and delved into the reasons in more detail. Bottom line, we are hamstrung by our colonial past. No Irish problem, no Brexit problem. We'd have long since left and be supping ambrosia in our golden palaces by now. However, it's like saying you can run a marathon whilst tied to the floor. Just too tricky. Aye. But did you think we'd get there in the end? I did, though I'm not convinced it will pass. Yet. Maybe some behind the scenes discussion to be done with the dup, maybe some money? Quote
Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 36 minutes ago, Escobarp said: So Labour lib dems and snp refusing to accept any deal no matter what is in it isn’t exactly that? Politically driven stupidity? Or is it just Boris? theyre all guilty of fucking this up Well one they aren't the government. 2 most of those MPs were not wanting to leave and I don't really see why they should or would change their minds. The government are responsible for finding a path forward and have made a huge pigs ear of it. DUP just a minute ago "Following confirmation from the Prime Minister that he believes he has secured a “great new deal” with the European Union the Democratic Unionist Party will be unable to support these proposals in Parliament.” Quote
Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Aye. But did you think we'd get there in the end? I did, though I'm not convinced it will pass. Yet. Maybe some behind the scenes discussion to be done with the dup, maybe some money? How can the DUP support this? It does nothing for their political chances - hands power to Sinn Fein and unionist groups in NI are all up in arms about it. The DUP relies on their vote. So its not about money. They will be booted out of their seats if they go along with this. Quote
Spider Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Aye. But did you think we'd get there in the end? I did, though I'm not convinced it will pass. Yet. Maybe some behind the scenes discussion to be done with the dup, maybe some money? The DUP have already had a few billion to prop up the tories. Sure they can fill their pockets with a bit more. There was always going to be a deal at the 11th hour. Again. Anyone with a working liver could figure that out. But, quite rightly, Northern Ireland will fuck it all up. Even if Brexit happens on the 31st (and I still think it will), it will become an absolute nightmare beyond November. Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Spider said: The DUP have already had a few billion to prop up the tories. Sure they can fill their pockets with a bit more. There was always going to be a deal at the 11th hour. Again. Anyone with a working liver could figure that out. But, quite rightly, Northern Ireland will fuck it all up. Even if Brexit happens on the 31st (and I still think it will), it will become an absolute nightmare beyond November. Maybe. I have a bit more faith. Been quite a while since the troubles and a lot of younger people surely would be happy to have it stay that way. Interestingly, just been saying that there is quite a bit of support for this type of dual status in NI as many are remainers. If we go to an election without anything in place, pundits explaining that the DUP could be looking at loosing seats. Maybe a rock and a hard place situation for them, we'll see. Quote
Spider Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said: Maybe. I have a bit more faith. Been quite a while since the troubles and a lot of younger people surely would be happy to have it stay that way. Interestingly, just been saying that there is quite a bit of support for this type of dual status in NI as many are remainers. If we go to an election without anything in place, pundits explaining that the DUP could be looking at loosing seats. Maybe a rock and a hard place situation for them, we'll see. Maybe the younger generation can see beyond the sectarianism a bit better than their parents/grandparents who've had to live through much worse. Clearly Northern Ireland is heading to unification, and that's a good thing in my opinion. Doesn't stop people flying the union jack. I'm finding it hard to give much of a fuck since this deal seems unlikely to bring my customers back. Quote
Mounts Kipper Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 The deal seems to be similar to the TM deal except the back stop is removed (Some said that was not possible) It is far from perfect and you can blame a remain Parliament for that, parliament have succeeded in achieving their goal, it should be now voted through by parliament, I doubt that it will though. Quote
royal white Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 I don’t believe there will ever be peace over there Quote
Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said: The deal seems to be similar to the TM deal except the back stop is removed (Some said that was not possible) It is far from perfect and you can blame a remain Parliament for that, parliament have succeeded in achieving their goal, it should be now voted through by parliament, I doubt that it will though. The backstop has merely been replaced with the original EU offer of a NI only solution - technically they are out of EU CU, but in practice and legally they are in effect in it - a deal Johnson said was unacceptable and that no Tory leader could sign up to. This "deal" was what EU originally offered with a tiny tweak to nature of NI within customs arrangements. So it isn't "the impossible". Simply what we've already rejected and gone back to because Boris is desperate. Quote
Spider Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, royal white said: I don’t believe there will ever be peace over there There won't So let Ireland deal with it. You want a clean Brexit, shuffle off the baggage. Quote
Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Ouch. I think this will get a lot of coverage over coming days. How utterly embarrassing. Quote
Cheese Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: The deal seems to be similar to the TM deal except the back stop is removed (Some said that was not possible) Aye, it's been changed from temporary to permanent. Quote
Guest Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Just now, Cheese said: Aye, it's been changed from temporary to permanent. But only for NI - so mounts doesn't care. They have sacrificed everything else to be able to say "we've won" so the union may as well be next. I guess its only natural for the nationalism to ramp up to "England for the English and let NI fall into the sea". Next it'll be a local shop for local people. Quote
Mounts Kipper Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Just now, Cheese said: Aye, it's been changed from temporary to permanent. What this deal appears to do is completely remove the backstop in favour of giving Northern Ireland a say on a time-limited arrangement. And that Northern Ireland is now in a hybrid customs territory, but crucially with no checks at the border with Ireland. Edited October 17, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote
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