Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, boltondiver said: Can't see it, I think the Momentum suicide death cult will choose another Corbyn, albeit a female version this time. For diversity. Just something I saw/heard on politics programme earlier. About how poor Corbyn is rated, even within labour ranks. They need a re set, or will be scuppered for years to come. Even some of the unions are expressing concern, that surely would bring about a change of approach. Quote
Ani Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Just something I saw/heard on politics programme earlier. About how poor Corbyn is rated, even within labour ranks. They need a re set, or will be scuppered for years to come. Even some of the unions are expressing concern, that surely would bring about a change of approach. Corbyn/Momentum have control of the grass roots of the party. I have friends who have been members of the Labour Party for 30 years who have been saying for 2-3 years how the party has been taken over. Quote
Salford Trotter Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, miamiwhite said: Who will you be voting for mate, if I don’t need to ask ? Wouldn't be the ones whose leader is being asked to pay back money she “forgot” to declare from the fracking debacle ? I couldn't trust Johnson and never for Labour https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-apology-parliament-earnings-income-telegraph-column-standards-committee-a8670031.html Edited October 24, 2019 by Salford Trotter Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ani said: Corbyn/Momentum have control of the grass roots of the party. I have friends who have been members of the Labour Party for 30 years who have been saying for 2-3 years how the party has been taken over. Aye, indeed. If they carry on along the same path they will gradually become a bit part player. Momentum could carry on and not bother or could get ousted as they weaken and get bored. Or normal MPs start another party. Quote
Guest Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 33 minutes ago, Moon boy said: In your opinion when was the last time we had a Government where both parties were center? Towards the centre. And to answer your question - 2015. Quote
Guest Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Ani said: Corbyn/Momentum have control of the grass roots of the party. I have friends who have been members of the Labour Party for 30 years who have been saying for 2-3 years how the party has been taken over. They don’t agree on who should follow Corbyn though. And the membership is potentially large enough to out vote them if they split. A more pertinent question would be who wants it. Needs to be serious people not the student debater types. If it’s RLB heaven help them! Edited October 24, 2019 by bwfcfan5 Quote
mickbrown Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 42 minutes ago, Moon boy said: Don’t worry about the Tories, you concentrate on your own party How many times? I ain’t got a party Quote
mickbrown Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 41 minutes ago, royal white said: Define a proper leader Someone vaguely trustworthy? Quote
Escobarp Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 Just now, mickbrown said: Someone vaguely trustworthy? Like Theresa May then? Quote
mickbrown Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 38 minutes ago, Escobarp said: Very bold statement that indeed werent people saying the tories were dead whilst May was in charge only a matter of months ago?? Doing well for dead from where I’m stood Doing well? Jesus, I’d hate to see them fuck things up. Quote
Escobarp Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, mickbrown said: Doing well? Jesus, I’d hate to see them fuck things up. You seen the polls no? only realistic measure of how any political party is doing I would say Edited October 24, 2019 by Escobarp Quote
Sweep Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 Just now, Spider said: Who’s winning? All of us, we're all winners!! Quote
Salford Trotter Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Escobarp said: You seen the polls no? only realistic measure of how any political party is doing I would say May was 16pts clear on the day she announced the 2017 election and even increased that lead in the following few days to over 20% iirc. Quote
Escobarp Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 Just now, Salford Trotter said: May was 16pts clear on the day she announced the 2017 election and even increased that lead in the following few days to over 20% iirc. And as discussed previously complacency killed her. Plus there was a whole different feel around Corbyn then. He’s now been found out support has dropped off a cliff But even then that argument doesn’t stand up for a measure of how well a party is doing today. On that the day when that poll you speak of was undertaken they were doing well. It was what happened afterwards that decreased that position of strength. Polls are the only measure of how well a party is deemed to be doing today. That’s a fact. So my point is valid the tories at present in relation to the other parties are doing well. Quote
mickbrown Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 19 minutes ago, Escobarp said: You seen the polls no? only realistic measure of how any political party is doing I would say That's one way of looking at it, I suppose Another, possibly more accurate measure of how a political party is doing is erm...what they're doing. 😉 Quote
Escobarp Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 Just now, mickbrown said: That's one way of looking at it, I suppose Another, possibly more accurate measure of how a political party is doing is erm...what they're doing. 😉 Correct in your or my opinion. Polls reflect the opinions of a lot more so you get a more “balanced” view. I think it’s all horseshit for the record but it’s the only sensible measure sadly Quote
mickbrown Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 Just now, Escobarp said: Correct in your or my opinion. Polls reflect the opinions of a lot more so you get a more “balanced” view. I think it’s all horseshit for the record but it’s the only sensible measure sadly You'd be more accurate to say they are 'polling well'. 'Doing well' implies they are doing something. As they have no majority, they're doing the square root of fuck all at the moment. Quote
Salford Trotter Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Escobarp said: And as discussed previously complacency killed her. Plus there was a whole different feel around Corbyn then. He’s now been found out support has dropped off a cliff But even then that argument doesn’t stand up for a measure of how well a party is doing today. On that the day when that poll you speak of was undertaken they were doing well. It was what happened afterwards that decreased that position of strength. Polls are the only measure of how well a party is deemed to be doing today. That’s a fact. So my point is valid the tories at present in relation to the other parties are doing well. They may have a lead in the polls but unless they get to 15/16% lead at the ballot box they will not get a majority. Several factors in there that were not present in 2017... TBP and how they will perform up against the Tories as there will be no electoral pact if the election is after No Deal has been taken off the table and is before the end of the extension SNP will wipe out the Tories in Scotland The Lib Dems will pick up about 30+ seats in total with the gains coming primarily from the SW and London. Every seat they and the SNP win knocks the Tories back one. Which means the Tories will have to win seats that they have never won before The scrutiny of the WAB will show that this is a relatively hard Brexit and it's up to the opposition to make their case well that this is not good for Britain The Tories won 44% of the vote at the last election and because it was primarily a two party race last time there will be 4 parties fighting it out. They are currently polling at 35% I believe so that's 9% adrift of where they were A Tory majority is not a given and I still hang my hat on another hung parliament Edited October 24, 2019 by Salford Trotter Quote
Guest Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: They may have a lead in the polls but unless they get to 15/16% lead at the ballot box they will not get a majority. Several factors in there that were not present in 2017... TBP and how they will perform up against the Tories as there will be no electoral pact if the election is after No Deal has been taken off the table and is before the end of the extension SNP will wipe out the Tories in Scotland The Lib Dems will pick up about 30+ seats in total with the gains coming primarily from the SW and London. Every seat they and the SNP win knocks the Tories back one The scrutiny of the WAB will show that this is a relatively hard Brexit and it's up to the opposition to make their case well that this is not good for Britain The Tories won 44% of the vote at the last election and because it was primarily a two party race last time there will be 4 parties fighting it out. They are currently polling at 35% I believe so that's 9% adrift of where they were A Tory majority is not a given and I still hang my hat on another hung parliament I think you make some fair points, but I don’t think it will work out as you outline. Quote
Salford Trotter Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 1 minute ago, boltondiver said: I think you make some fair points, but I don’t think it will work out as you outline. It's my opinion of course, so how do you see it playing out realistically? Quote
Escobarp Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: They may have a lead in the polls but unless they get to 15/16% lead at the ballot box they will not get a majority. Several factors in there that were not present in 2017... TBP and how they will perform up against the Tories as there will be no electoral pact if the election is after No Deal has been taken off the table and is before the end of the extension SNP will wipe out the Tories in Scotland The Lib Dems will pick up about 30+ seats in total with the gains coming primarily from the SW and London. Every seat they and the SNP win knocks the Tories back one The scrutiny of the WAB will show that this is a relatively hard Brexit and it's up to the opposition to make their case well that this is not good for Britain The Tories won 44% of the vote at the last election and because it was primarily a two party race last time there will be 4 parties fighting it out. They are currently polling at 35% I believe so that's 9% adrift of where they were A Tory majority is not a given and I still hang my hat on another hung parliament Not disagreeing with it my point is still valid though that in relation to the only realistic opposition party tories are doing Well. They will win the next election labour won’t I will also take a wee bet that the gap between tories and labour is higher after the next GE than the last one? Edited October 24, 2019 by Escobarp Quote
Salford Trotter Posted October 24, 2019 Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Escobarp said: Not disagreeing with it my point is still valid though that in relation to the only realistic opposition party tories are doing Well. They will win the next election labour won’t In a purely numbers view of course the Tories are leading the polls and they may be the largest party. So if having the greatest number of seats is your definition of winning then you will be right mate. But if you define winning as having a majority then that's different altogether Edited October 24, 2019 by Salford Trotter Quote
miamiwhite Posted October 24, 2019 Author Posted October 24, 2019 53 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: I couldn't trust Johnson and never for Labour https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-apology-parliament-earnings-income-telegraph-column-standards-committee-a8670031.html Sorry mate, I clearly missed your answer, so will ask again. Who are you voting for ? Quote
miamiwhite Posted October 24, 2019 Author Posted October 24, 2019 57 minutes ago, Ani said: Corbyn/Momentum have control of the grass roots of the party. I have friends who have been members of the Labour Party for 30 years who have been saying for 2-3 years how the party has been taken over. Momentum has control of the now toxic Labour Party. Fact. Quote
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