Politics

[bolty58]

14 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Legal immigrant.

 

Legal 'headhunted' immigrant. Bit of a difference to economic migrants masquerading as refugees who have passed through umpteen countries to access the UK and its benevolence.

[bolty58]

14 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Of course. One that meets the requirements of admission to the country. No problem. 

..and will soon be living for around 7 months of the year back in Europe fully self funded from the fruits of my own labour and not taking advantage of taxpayers hard earned contributions in either Spain or the UK.

Of course that left wing dolt would open the borders a la Merkel. Par for the course from the level of intelligence he displays on here.

[Ani]

Are the defenders of democracy on this thread up in arms about the prospect of no deal which Boris and Gove have said we did not vote for ?

Or is it all just a negotiating ploy ? 

[Escobarp]

2 hours ago, Ani said:

Are the defenders of democracy on this thread up in arms about the prospect of no deal which Boris and Gove have said we did not vote for ?

Or is it all just a negotiating ploy ? 

It’s happened has it? Then I will be up in arms 

 

oh hang on...... as you were.  I will wait until something has happened 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Escobarp said:

It’s happened has it? Then I will be up in arms 

 

oh hang on...... as you were.  I will wait until something has happened 

This. Yet more posturing. Just like last time.

[Spider]

Sometimes, it's fairly easy to predict the future based on the available evidence.

Hands up who honestly believed Boris when he said Brexit was oven ready?

Edited September 8, 2020 by Spider

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 minute ago, Spider said:

Sometimes, it's fairly easy to predict the future based on the available evidence.

Hands up who honestly believed Boris when he said Brexit was oven ready?

Why do you keep trumpeting the same bollocks. Do you believe it?

[Spider]

1 minute ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Why do you keep trumpeting the same bollocks. Do you believe it?

I believe we're constantly being lied to.

I'd prefer a shitty truth to a baffling lie.

[Traf]

4 minutes ago, Spider said:

Hands up who honestly believes anything said by Boris?

 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

12 minutes ago, Spider said:

I believe we're constantly being lied to.

I'd prefer a shitty truth to a baffling lie.

He said we had a withdrawal agreement ready. Then delivered it.

How good it is, and whether too many compromises were made who knows,  but that's not the point.

Nothing was a given with regard to a trade deal. You must be aware of this and the difference. 

[Ani]

6 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

He said we had a withdrawal agreement ready. Then delivered it.

How good it is, and whether too many compromises were made who knows,  but that's not the point.

Nothing was a given with regard to a trade deal. You must be aware of this and the difference. 

So he had a withdrawal agreement but is now in a position to say it is not very good and that is ok. 
But anyone who said months ago ‘Hang on this withdrawal agreement is not very good’ was a traitor. 
Let’s be honest we are going to be sticking to a date because changing the date would be a PR disaster despite the fact that resources on both sides have not surprisingly been diverted onto the pandemic. 

[Ani]

1 hour ago, Escobarp said:

It’s happened has it? Then I will be up in arms 

 

oh hang on...... as you were.  I will wait until something has happened 

You are familiar with the meaning of the word ‘prospect’ ? 😁😎

You think it is a negotiating ploy then ? 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 minutes ago, Ani said:

So he had a withdrawal agreement but is now in a position to say it is not very good and that is ok. 
But anyone who said months ago ‘Hang on this withdrawal agreement is not very good’ was a traitor. 
Let’s be honest we are going to be sticking to a date because changing the date would be a PR disaster despite the fact that resources on both sides have not surprisingly been diverted onto the pandemic. 

I made a point of watching newsnight last night to get a handle on the supposed new legislation. A couple of minor technicalities that will have no concern to the eu. A couple of bigger ones that will.

Legal bod saying its necessary because the eu could have a veto on which products are and aren't subject to extra rules. Others saying its a breach of an agreement. 

Thing is, no one has actually seen the legislation nor studied it in any detail. 

Moreover, a deal had to be agreed, and its almost guaranteed that some bits will turn out not to be the best they could be, to one party or another. Or both.

In such instances it makes sense for them to be modified, preferably by mutual agreement. 

 

4 minutes ago, Ani said:

You are familiar with the meaning of the word ‘prospect’ ? 😁😎

You think it is a negotiating ploy then ? 

In short yes. As above, if there are areas you feel can be improved, and have legally valid reasons to do so then why wouldn't you?

Both parties just looking for any opportunity to get the upper hand.

[Spider]

wrong thread, What a cunt.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Spider

[Escobarp]

13 minutes ago, Ani said:

You are familiar with the meaning of the word ‘prospect’ ? 😁😎

You think it is a negotiating ploy then ? 

Until it happens then it can only be one of two things. A negotiation tactic or a definitive sign of intent. I’m hoping it’s the former as the latter just doesn’t sit well with me and its not what I voted for. If it was the latter then surely you would just say end of talks cheerio. You have been involved in negotiations in your career same as I have. And you know that when there isn’t a deal to be done there isn’t a deal and both sides would likely walk away or at least one would. I’m not seeing that as of yet so I don’t believe it’s cut and dry.  Not to say it won’t happen though but let’s wait and see 

[Escobarp]

1 minute ago, Spider said:

I’m a cunt.

EFA

[Ani]

1 minute ago, Escobarp said:

Until it happens then it can only be one of two things. A negotiation tactic or a definitive sign of intent. I’m hoping it’s the former as the latter just doesn’t sit well with me and its not what I voted for. If it was the latter then surely you would just say end of talks cheerio. You have been involved in negotiations in your career same as I have. And you know that when there isn’t a deal to be done there isn’t a deal and both sides would likely walk away or at least one would. I’m not seeing that as of yet so I don’t believe it’s cut and dry.  Not to say it won’t happen though but let’s wait and see 

You have already said that a delay makes sense about 2359 pages back. Do you think politically Boris et al will delay or push on regardless ? 

[Ani]

6 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

I made a point of watching newsnight last night to get a handle on the supposed new legislation. A couple of minor technicalities that will have no concern to the eu. A couple of bigger ones that will.

Legal bod saying its necessary because the eu could have a veto on which products are and aren't subject to extra rules. Others saying its a breach of an agreement. 

Thing is, no one has actually seen the legislation nor studied it in any detail. 

Moreover, a deal had to be agreed, and its almost guaranteed that some bits will turn out not to be the best they could be, to one party or another. Or both.

In such instances it makes sense for them to be modified, preferably by mutual agreement. 

 

In short yes. As above, if there are areas you feel can be improved, and have legally valid reasons to do so then why wouldn't you?

Both parties just looking for any opportunity to get the upper hand.

You are giving reasons for the deal to be modified. My point is when this was pointed out previously anyone questioning the oven ready deal was a traitor. 

[Escobarp]

1 minute ago, Ani said:

You have already said that a delay makes sense about 2359 pages back. Do you think politically Boris et al will delay or push on regardless ? 

Where have I said that I now dont think a delay was appropriate?
 

I think they will push on sadly which makes no sense to an uneducated buffoon like myself. I can’t see the point in it other than to save face. For me I would rather be embarrassed, show some humility and try and get the best deal for the country. Unless they believe no deal is the best deal of course. If that is their thinking then I would be very interested in seeing the logic around that. 

[Ani]

1 minute ago, Escobarp said:

Where have I said that I now dont think a delay was appropriate?
 

I think they will push on sadly which makes no sense to an uneducated buffoon like myself. I can’t see the point in it other than to save face. For me I would rather be embarrassed, show some humility and try and get the best deal for the country. Unless they believe no deal is the best deal of course. If that is their thinking then I would be very interested in seeing the logic around that. 

Where did I say that you did say that ? I was just acknowledging you had already said it. 
I agree with the rest of your post.
 

Although Boris et al showing some humility would be biggest u turn of recent history. 

[Escobarp]

Just now, Ani said:

Where did I say that you did say that ? I was just acknowledging you had already said it. 
I agree with the rest of your post.
 

Although Boris et al showing some humility would be biggest u turn of recent history. 

It won’t happen we all know this but we also have to acknowledge the EU are just as pig headed. If this goes tits up then both sides suffer and both have played a part in it doing so. 
 

if it is no deal then, wait for it, we need to have a second referendum which is leave with no deal or stay in. Simple as that for me. (That should seal another 100 pages on this thread easily). But genuinely It is what I believe. 

[Spider]

This "negotiating/playing cards close to chest" idea.

That's standard when you're negotiating a deal and you know a competitor is lurking in the background waiting to steal the contract.

This is entirely different. There are no competitors, no tenders or bids, no 5 year clauses.

Brexit is being treated like some murky game of brinkmanship - by both sides, I hasten to add - when it should be dealt with openly, honestly and in full view of the millions of people it directly affects.

Instead, the future of our nation is in the hands of a serial womaniser who works 2 days a week, his gaggle of Bullingdon chums who will be feathering their own nests and Dominic Cummings who I wouldn't trust to switch a light on.

You can see why people are nervous.

[Escobarp]

2 minutes ago, Spider said:

This "negotiating/playing cards close to chest" idea.

That's standard when you're negotiating a deal and you know a competitor is lurking in the background waiting to steal the contract.

This is entirely different. There are no competitors, no tenders or bids, no 5 year clauses.

Brexit is being treated like some murky game of brinkmanship - by both sides, I hasten to add - when it should be dealt with openly, honestly and in full view of the millions of people it directly affects.

Instead, the future of our nation is in the hands of a serial womaniser who works 2 days a week, his gaggle of Bullingdon chums who will be feathering their own nests and Dominic Cummings who I wouldn't trust to switch a light on.

You can see why people are nervous.

I’ve negotiated many times in a situation involving two parties, and me on behalf of my employer being one of them, and our walk away was in essence doomsday which we enforced as the alternatives weren’t palatable to us at that time. 

[Spider]

1 minute ago, Escobarp said:

I’ve negotiated many times in a situation involving two parties, and me on behalf of my employer being one of them, and our walk away was in essence doomsday which we enforced as the alternatives weren’t palatable to us at that time. 

I've never been in a situation where the other party couldn't pick the phone up to a competitor if negotiations went to shit.

[Ani]

31 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

I’ve negotiated many times in a situation involving two parties, and me on behalf of my employer being one of them, and our walk away was in essence doomsday which we enforced as the alternatives weren’t palatable to us at that time. 

I think you will acknowledge there really is a massive difference between walking away from a negotiation in business and the situation were are in with the EU. 
 

We have a current deal with our biggest supplier who is also our biggest customer and we are talking about breaking those ties although we will still want to deal with them , just on undefined terms and we have nothing in place to replace any lost business. I would be amazed if you or your company every let a negotiation get to this position.