Sweep Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 I can't see a GE producing a majority for anybody as things stand - so even if we go that route, and we still might, we'll end up back where we are now. Although if a GE was called, then it would be interesting to see what the main players would put in their manifesto's about Brexit. Labour would no doubt put "second referendum" in theirs, and that could well be a bit of a vote winner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggyStardust Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: IF we enter the backstop that is true. But we can choose to extend the transition period to avoid that if needed. I mean it’s not good but reality is that the EU aren’t budging on it and in fairness they cannot. My point was a general election now could very well lead to the Tories losing a handful of seats and no longer commanding any majority even with the DUP. It’s quite possible. Which means the mess only deepens. A GE that produced a clear result would be great but there are no guarantees it would. It would also mean we’d have to delay A50 and take part in the Euro elections. And all that 6 months down the line might leave us back to where we are a gridlocked Parliament. The only compromise is the deal on the table. I don’t see any sensible outcome possible if MPs continue to reject it. Not unilaterally. which is kind of the point being made. And it keeps us in the EU whilst it is extended.Which is also kind of the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalcolmW Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 11 hours ago, Sweep said: He doesn't even talk a good game these days. He's just a cock. Even those who want hardline Brexit think he's a cunt now. He's a proper busted flush. The likes of Bolty and Malcolm probably think he's great though You surely haven't forgotten that I have slated Davis many, many times. In 2005 he was a shoo-in for the Tory leadership when it became a straight fight between him and a boy scout called Cameron in 2005. He gave a truly awful speech to the conference and that pair of 'smart' young things took over, leading to where we are now. And as for Boris, if he had negotiated the current deal he would be telling us how wonderful it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 22, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 minute ago, ZiggyStardust said: Not unilaterally. which is kind of the point being made. And it keeps us in the EU whilst it is extended.Which is also kind of the point. Which then becomes a whole new debate about best endeavours and all that gubbins. Personally, it doesn't concern me as much as it does for others, especially with the nuclear option of the Vienna convention. That said, it's a huge stumbling block which might yet be reduced in height. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, ZiggyStardust said: Not unilaterally. which is kind of the point being made. And it keeps us in the EU whilst it is extended.Which is also kind of the point. It is - but the conundrum is not solvable. We cannot comply with the good friday agreement and the international trading law without a backstop in place during a transition period to any future arrangement. It is clear that is simply reality and not changing. Any unilateral exit means it isn't a backstop. So the deal is the deal. A no deal exit or revoking A50 are the other options - neither of which would be democratic as neither would be supported by a parliamentary majority. So those are the options. What do you want to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted March 22, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) Odds of the 3rd meaningful vote being passed are currently 9/4. Not being passed is 3/10 Is that printing money? Edited March 22, 2019 by Spider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Zico Posted March 22, 2019 Moderators Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Cheese said: All they'll have to do to understand it is look at this image: Does those fall into the category "project fear" or "boom facts"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, Spider said: Odds of the 3rd meaningful vote being passed are currently 9/4. Not being passed is 3/10 Is that printing money? Backing it to pass? Currently as of Friday morning I sadly see no way it passes. Lot could change of weekend of course... But I'd not put money on it passing as things stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Sweep said: I can't see a GE producing a majority for anybody as things stand - so even if we go that route, and we still might, we'll end up back where we are now. Although if a GE was called, then it would be interesting to see what the main players would put in their manifesto's about Brexit. Labour would no doubt put "second referendum" in theirs, and that could well be a bit of a vote winner Won’t be a vote winner in midlands and northern leave constituencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrelli Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 21 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Won’t be a vote winner in midlands and northern leave constituencies. But it will be in Scotland, London, N Ireland though. The good old United Kingdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon boy Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said: IF we enter the backstop that is true. But we can choose to extend the transition period to avoid that if needed. I mean it’s not good but reality is that the EU aren’t budging on it and in fairness they cannot. My point was a general election now could very well lead to the Tories losing a handful of seats and no longer commanding any majority even with the DUP. It’s quite possible. Which means the mess only deepens. A GE that produced a clear result would be great but there are no guarantees it would. It would also mean we’d have to delay A50 and take part in the Euro elections. And all that 6 months down the line might leave us back to where we are a gridlocked Parliament. The only compromise is the deal on the table. I don’t see any sensible outcome possible if MPs continue to reject it. Remainers constantly stress the need for urgency to decide one way or another to help business/industry certainty, then you say we can extend the transition period if needed If a GE results in losing Tory seats, so be it, like I said previously I would accept the outcome, because I am a Democrat In any negotiation between 2 sides if one side cannot walk away the other side wins, that’s not rocket science You say, ‘the EU aren't budging’ and ‘the only compromise is the deal on the table, so how is that a negotiation The EU are not some Godly Power, they are an organisation who want ‘thier’ way, we are the5th largest economy in the world who want what’s best for us, if we can’t get what 17.5mill people want we have to walk away from the party, and find an alternative way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 3 hours ago, ZiggyStardust said: Not unilaterally. which is kind of the point being made. And it keeps us in the EU whilst it is extended.Which is also kind of the point. Indeed People aren’t quite understanding how bad a deal it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Winchester White Posted March 22, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 22, 2019 I would love it if the Queen rocked up at the commons and turfed May out on her arse for being incompetent. Then Phil headbutts Corbyn and sets the corgies on the front benches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Moon boy said: Remainers constantly stress the need for urgency to decide one way or another to help business/industry certainty, then you say we can extend the transition period if needed If a GE results in losing Tory seats, so be it, like I said previously I would accept the outcome, because I am a Democrat In any negotiation between 2 sides if one side cannot walk away the other side wins, that’s not rocket science You say, ‘the EU aren't budging’ and ‘the only compromise is the deal on the table, so how is that a negotiation The EU are not some Godly Power, they are an organisation who want ‘thier’ way, we are the5th largest economy in the world who want what’s best for us, if we can’t get what 17.5mill people want we have to walk away from the party, and find an alternative way The EU have given us exactly the deal we asked for. If you want to stop freedom of movement and prevent regulatory alignment either side of a border then you either need checks on that border or some sort of agreement to ensure there is no need for checks without infringing international trading laws. We asked for this deal. It’s absolutely nothing to do with there being no negotiation. It’s simply fundamentally the only deal left available to satisfy the good friday agreement and the EUs need to protect their internal market and comply with international law. They offered us another way of doing it but we rejected that and asked for this one instead. Dont believe the lies from the right wing media who have misled our population. This is not intransigence. This is simply all that is left, unless WE change what we are asking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: The EU have given us exactly the deal we asked for. We asked for this deal. They offered us another way of doing it but we rejected that and asked for this one instead. It's amazing how many people don't understand this, it really is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, Sweep said: It's amazing how many people don't understand this, it really is Because too many are being lied to by the media they read and the politicians they listen to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted March 22, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 22, 2019 37 minutes ago, Sweep said: It's amazing how many people don't understand this, it really is It's bollocks. If it was purely what we wanted it wouldn't have taken two years to sort. The deal is an arrangement between both parties as a result of discussions. That's the reason very few seem to like it. I find it amazing that anyone thinks we got everything we requested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: It's bollocks. If it was purely what we wanted it wouldn't have taken two years to sort. The deal is an arrangement between both parties as a result of discussions. That's the reason very few seem to like it. I find it amazing that anyone thinks we got everything we requested. What is amazing is that folk thought this would be a walk in the park. I accept the fact we have yet to start trade talks but how many times did we hear phrases such as "it's in the EU's interest to agree a favourable deal with the UK", "we hold all the cards" and "signing trade deals will be easiest thing ever". We were never going to get what the Leavers promised, equally, the doomsday predictions were not going to happen either though the value of the £ was/is impacted on inflation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: What is amazing is that folk thought this would be a walk in the park. I accept the fact we have yet to start trade talks but how many times did we hear phrases such as "it's in the EU's interest to agree a favourable deal with the UK", "we hold all the cards" and "signing trade deals will be easiest thing ever". We were never going to get what the Leavers promised, equally, the doomsday predictions were not going to happen either though the value of the £ was/is impacted on inflation. Unless we leave without a deal and then it’s game on. Edited March 22, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Sweep said: It's amazing how many people don't understand this, it really is It isn't really true. Theresa May asked for it, not us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, bwfcfan5 said: Because too many are being lied to by the media they read and the politicians they listen to. The loonies like me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salford Trotter Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: Unless we leave without a deal and then it’s game on. You do realise how long these trade deals take to negotiate? Dr Fox has only signed a handful of the 40 continuity deals in 2.5 years and that was only taking the current EU trade deal and mirroring those with the UK. So if we do leave without a deal we will be on WTO terms for several years notwithstanding the lack of preparation our businesses have done to cope with No Deal. Jobs will be lost of that there is no doubt... Tough shit i suppose as you keep on reminding us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, boltondiver said: It isn't really true. Theresa May asked for it, not us I know May asked for it, but we asked her to represent us......so as far as the EU are concerned, "we" asked for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweep Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: You do realise how long these trade deals take to negotiate? Dr Fox has only signed a handful of the 40 continuity deals in 2.5 years and that was only taking the current EU trade deal and mirroring those with the UK. So if we do leave without a deal we will be on WTO terms for several years notwithstanding the lack of preparation our businesses have done to cope with No Deal. Jobs will be lost of that there is no doubt... Tough shit i suppose as you keep on reminding us You obviously don't remember Maggie Tate telling us that they could be done within 2 weeks. It's a shame he doesn't still post, he really was a thicko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, Sweep said: I know May asked for it, but we asked her to represent us......so as far as the EU are concerned, "we" asked for it ah, I see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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