Politics

[Mounts Kipper]

15 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

The WA is one thing, still not agreed after more than three years.  We then have to start working with the EU on our future trading arrangements (ie. the difficult bit).  Most sane people are now asking themselves how much economic damage we are doing to ourselves. 

You are still trying to blame remainers when TM's deal was mostly scuppered by the ERG/DUP.  If the government had taken the hard line of 'no deal' two years ago, as you suggest, I think we would have had a second referendum by now.  I still think this is the way it should go and at least it will be sorted one way or the other.  

There is a massive difference between why the ERG and the bleaters voted against the deal, the ERG we’re attempting to get the best deal possible while a large number of the bleaters wanted to reverse Brexit. 

No point in another referendum no point at all as the first hasn’t been honoured.  

Edited September 17, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[bolty58]

4 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

There is a massive difference between why the ERG and the bleaters voted against the deal, the ERG we’re attempting to get the best deal possible while a large number of the bleaters wanted to reverse Brexit. 

No point in another referendum no point at all as the first hasn’t been honoured.  

...and who's to say Leave wouldn't win again? The Remain side would then want best of 5.

[Mounts Kipper]

2 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

...and who's to say Leave wouldn't win again? The Remain side would then want best of 5.

They’d frame it so it’s leave with no deal, or TM deal, or remain, split the Brexiteers  vote and leaving remain as the likely winner. Now if it was a referendum with leave no deal or a deal brought back by BJ I would accept that. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Farrelli]

3 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

There is a massive difference between why the ERG and the bleaters voted against the deal, the ERG we’re attempting to get the best deal possible while a large number of the bleaters wanted to reverse Brexit. 

No point in another referendum no point at all as the first hasn’t been honoured.  

The deal the ERG want is pie in the sky. It's not realistic and never has been. The EU were never going to give us this best of all worlds deal, why would they? Many commentators made this observation at the time of the referendum and we're still waiting for the alternative backstop arrangement.

Re. Second referendum.  There is every point because we now know what the reality is compared to the lies told by Gove, Farage and Johnson three years ago.

 

 

[Mounts Kipper]

13 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

The deal the ERG want is pie in the sky. It's not realistic and never has been. The EU were never going to give us this best of all worlds deal, why would they? Many commentators made this observation at the time of the referendum and we're still waiting for the alternative backstop arrangement.

Re. Second referendum.  There is every point because we now know what the reality is compared to the lies told by Gove, Farage and Johnson three years ago.

 

 

Lies😂🤣😂 what about the remain lies? They’ve all come true...not. Anyhow this lies argument is utter bollocks,  leave won fair and square you need to grow up FFS. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Salford Trotter]

9 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Lies😂🤣😂 what about the remain lies? They’ve all come true...not. Anyhow this lies argument is utter bollocks,  leave won fair and square you need to grow up FFS. 

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-director-admits-won-lied-public/08/02/

[Mounts Kipper]

7 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-director-admits-won-lied-public/08/02/

Grow up. We voted leave by over a million people, despite government projection lies distributed through every letter box, you need to accept it and get on with your life. And if anyone believed that all the money saved from leaving the EU be spent on the NHS then I’d doubt they’ve got past playing with crayons. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Farrelli]

winners

[Mounts Kipper]

43 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

winners

That’s how it works, it’s called democracy, however I’ll point out most on the winning side accept some compromise was necessary to get the deal agreed and to make sure the losing sides opinion was represented, sadly many remainers won’t compromise and continue to bleat and scream and skrike, lies, lies, lies, bawling and crying. Sad pathetic fuckers. 

[Farrelli]

On 15/09/2019 at 20:39, boltondiver said:

 

 

16 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

That’s how it works, it’s called democracy, however I’ll point out most on the winning side accept some compromise was necessary to get the deal agreed and to make sure the losing sides opinion was represented, sadly many remainers won’t compromise and continue to bleat and scream and skrike, lies, lies, lies, bawling and crying. Sad pathetic fuckers. 

TMs deal was a compromise and was rejected by hard-line brexiteers.

Please explain how closing parliament to avoid scrutiny was a democratic decision?

Also, yesterday you said "bad laws need to be broken", how democratic is that?

The truth is you do not care how we leave, what laws are broken, what trouble occurs in NI, if Scotland leaves the UK or how our parliamentary democracy is affected just as long as we leave.

[Mounts Kipper]

42 minutes ago, Farrelli said:

 

TMs deal was a compromise and was rejected by hard-line brexiteers.

Please explain how closing parliament to avoid scrutiny was a democratic decision?

Also, yesterday you said "bad laws need to be broken", how democratic is that?

The truth is you do not care how we leave, what laws are broken, what trouble occurs in NI, if Scotland leaves the UK or how our parliamentary democracy is affected just as long as we leave.

Parliament has scrutinised this for 3 years so enough is enough and we should be heading for a GE , please tell me how democracy is served and protected when the people voted to leave and parliament won’t let the country leave, furthermore given the chance to fight a GE the remainer lobby would not take that option because they know they will lose again.  

Lastly I do care how we leave and I’m happy for those on the losing side to have some influence on the future deal, the TM deal reflected that and still the hardcore remainers would not accept that deal and it’s quite clear that was because they only want to reverse Brexit and for party political reasons, nothing to do with protecting the country. 

The gloves are off all bets are off and I’m behind Johnson in taking whatever route is necessary to get the EU to change tack and so we get the get the best deal we can. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Lord Pannick won't be happy with his team. Documents all over the place. 

[MalcolmW]

14 hours ago, Duck Egg said:

Not trying to point score or owt here but is it possible that Fox, Redwood and Davis may have all been correct if the UK had accepted the result of the referendum and presented a united front to the EU?

May, and now Johnson, have gone into every round of discussion, with the EU knowing that our parliament and a significant chunk of ours populace are doing everything within their power to prevent any deal or us leaving.

The 2017 election, which May intended to give a good working majority, led to her doing a deal with the DUP (36% of NI votes, 56% of NI seats won but 89% of NI seats taken up).

Just suppose she had offered  Labour a few ministries, such as Health & Education, in a Government of National Unity, with the promise of a new election 3 months after leaving the EU.

I can see flaws in that, but if the electorate "said" anything it was "we've done Brexit, now end austerity".

The united front presented to the EU would have been a strong factor, and the SNP would have been the official opposition.

[Salford Trotter]

3 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Grow up. We voted leave by over a million people, despite government projection lies distributed through every letter box, you need to accept it and get on with your life. And if anyone believed that all the money saved from leaving the EU be spent on the NHS then I’d doubt they’ve got past playing with crayons. 

It's worth reminding ourselves what Cummings said 

Pundits and MPs kept saying ‘why isn’t Leave arguing about the economy and living standards’. They did not realise that for millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards – that’s why it was so effective. It was clearly the most effective argument not only with the crucial swing fifth but with almost every demographic. Even with UKIP voters it was level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No. Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way.

 

[TM Trotter]

8 hours ago, bolty58 said:

So you don't accept the premise that campaigning to Stop Brexit when the referendum result has not been enacted is anti-democratic?

Righto, I'll file you under 'Z' with other zoons off here who just cannot (or will not) see the damage that will do to our entire political system.

It won't happen but just imagine if those treacherous centrist dogs won an election and became the majority party or even government. What would then happen if the other parties just said "Nope, we are not accepting the result of that election based on your own precedent set when you ignored the 2016 referendum result"?

A note which makes a huge difference to your point: the EU Referendum Act 2015 made no provision for the result to be legally binding on the government, or on any future government.

Madness not to implement the will of the people expressed in a democratic vote as the LibDem's very own grandee Mr. Paddy Ashdown said at the time of the referendum.

Politically, I accept we can't stop Brexit. It's going to happen. I think that's me adhering to the typical immature gloating Leaver request of 'Suck it up, buttercup'. 

However, the government blindly walking off a cliff just because the people voted for 'it' (even if most couldn't tell you what the implications of 'it' are) would be, while 'democratic', also highly fucking irresponsible. 

I'd wager that a Brexit with a good deal for the country would be tolerable for most remoaners/losers/sheep/whatever childish name Aaron Banks has told Leavers to use this week. The trouble is, other than isolationist rhetoric around keeping En-ger-land for the Engerlish, there are no proven benefits for the country. We're leaping off into the complete unknown because 'the will of the people' suggested it in an event that was as legally binding as flipping 30 million coins. The government is duty bound to protect the interests of the people it serves, and is doing so by challenging (not necessarily halting) the Brexit issue. That is, until Johnson forced the undemocratic closure of Parliament... Gotta love that democratic sovereignty we're retaining! 

[Mounts Kipper]

I look forward to the outcome of the Apple taxation case EU against the Irish, Leo must be shitting himself that his friends look like ending the party, Irish basket case economy returning very soon methinks. 

[Moon boy]

22 minutes ago, TM Trotter said:

Politically, I accept we can't stop Brexit. It's going to happen. I think that's me adhering to the typical immature gloating Leaver request of 'Suck it up, buttercup'. 

However, the government blindly walking off a cliff just because the people voted for 'it' (even if most couldn't tell you what the implications of 'it' are) would be, while 'democratic', also highly fucking irresponsible. 

I'd wager that a Brexit with a good deal for the country would be tolerable for most remoaners/losers/sheep/whatever childish name Aaron Banks has told Leavers to use this week. The trouble is, other than isolationist rhetoric around keeping En-ger-land for the Engerlish, there are no proven benefits for the country. We're leaping off into the complete unknown because 'the will of the people' suggested it in an event that was as legally binding as flipping 30 million coins. The government is duty bound to protect the interests of the people it serves, and is doing so by challenging (not necessarily halting) the Brexit issue. That is, until Johnson forced the undemocratic closure of Parliament... Gotta love that democratic sovereignty we're retaining! 

The ranting  of a madman,

In what way was the Referendum as legally binding as flipping 30 million coins?

The Government is duty bound to carry out the wishes of the people who elected it otherwise we don’t have a Democracy 

The Government’s use of Proroguing is perfectly legal, every Government has used it every year to hold the Political Conferences, this time it has been extended by a few days, Boris has not forced the ‘undemocratic closure of Parliament ‘

If you voted Remain I would imagine that in the few months after the Referendum most people had come round to accepting the result but because of the way that TM, a Remainer, had handled the first 12 months the anti Brexit Establishment organised themselves and gave hope to people who thought they could reverse the result

When you get MP’s, the EU, the press, the Speaker, the BBC,  the Judiciary and well organised anti Conservative protesters trying to reverse Brexit you end up with a mess like we’re trying to get through now

IMO we will leave on October 31st with a deal based on The Malthouse Agreement proposal, with separate agreed rules for the Island of Ireland, with GATT 24 and a FTA standstill agreement, but importantly we will have left the EU

The alternative is ‘no deal exit’

[MalcolmW]

Malthouse used to be one of Johnson's deputies as Mayor of London, and is adept at sorting out messes. In this case it was not of BoJo's making, but his compromise was the only thing which seemed capable of adoption. [He's not done badly for a Scouser]

[miamiwhite]

What are folk’s thoughts on the mad ranting “Guy” appearing at the Lib Dem’s conference the other day and staking his claims for a European Empire ?....yes, a European Empire !

Hmmm, his ranting reminds me of another clown from many years ago.

Comical how the Liberal DEMOCRATS lapped his speech up..numb and naive springs to mind.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

Jo Swinson, on stage with that smile, reminded me of Wallace

 

[Mounts Kipper]

30 minutes ago, miamiwhite said:

What are folk’s thoughts on the mad ranting “Guy” appearing at the Lib Dem’s conference the other day and staking his claims for a European Empire ?....yes, a European Empire !

Hmmm, his ranting reminds me of another clown from many years ago.

Comical how the Liberal DEMOCRATS lapped his speech up..numb and naive springs to mind.

Who was he? 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Mounts Kipper

[miamiwhite]

25 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Who was he? 

The mad buck toothed freak from the EU....Guy Rantingtwat

 

[miamiwhite]

Now.....here’s a beauty for the remainers accusing the leave people of telling lies, bending/breaking the laws etc.......we’ve listened to their bleats daily for three years plus now......here’s your chance now lefty freaks....please explain this little corker .....go on, try and dig yourself out....I’ll get a shovel from my van for you fools to dig a bigger hole with......

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by miamiwhite

[miamiwhite]

51 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Who was he? 

Go to about 9 mins in mate......He is seriously mental

 

https://m.facebook.com/logged_out/watch/?video_id=377867989793060&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FkpdZBthWHZ&_rdr

[fatolive]

5 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I look forward to the outcome of the Apple taxation case EU against the Irish, Leo must be shitting himself that his friends look like ending the party, Irish basket case economy returning very soon methinks. 

What outcome are you hoping for out of interest ? 

Didn’t think I’d ever read on this thread you’d be supporting the EU, but it’s a strange thread to be fair...