royal white Posted March 3, 2019 Posted March 3, 2019 Looks like the ST are looking at ways of paying the staff
HomerJay Posted March 3, 2019 Posted March 3, 2019 FINALLY WE'RE SORTED https://www.bwfcst.co.uk/unpaid-staff-wages-statement-from-bwfcst-board/ THANK THE LORD FOR THE ST.
Casino Posted March 3, 2019 Posted March 3, 2019 Well, Roger won't be handling the cash I wonder if they still feel there's nowt requiring action https://bondreview.co.uk/2019/02/28/roger-allanson-fined-17000-by-the-solicitors-regulation-authority-and-required-to-cease-running-his-practice/
Roger_Dubuis Posted March 3, 2019 Posted March 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Chris Custodiet said: And so to bed. I'm going to re-read a bit of Big Sam's autobiography. Now Sam obviously knew a thing or two about managing professional football players but his ideas on finance were something else. First time I read the book I wondered if I'd gone through the looking glass, so on entering the library I thought, should I look under Fiction, Biography or Sport? Found it under Sport. Sure enough my memory wasn't deceiving me. On page 126 Sam says that when he arrived at BWFC the Reebok was a £100million stadium and on page 127 that the club had debts totalling £45million. Heaven only knows where he got these ideas from or who had provided the £55million difference. Anyway I just want to refresh my memory on how Sam came to the conclusion that the guy who spent £185million on BWFC was a 'ruthless business man' One example explaining Sam's thinking could be that there in black and white in the club accounts Eddie Davies paid himself a transfer success fee of £1.5 million from the £6 million profit on the sale of Nicolas Anelka. That is hardly the action of a genuine sugar daddy such as Jack Walker or Jack Hayward is it
HR Posted March 3, 2019 Posted March 3, 2019 44 minutes ago, Casino said: Well, Roger won't be handling the cash I wonder if they still feel there's nowt requiring action https://bondreview.co.uk/2019/02/28/roger-allanson-fined-17000-by-the-solicitors-regulation-authority-and-required-to-cease-running-his-practice/ Doesnt stop Ian Bridge accessing it.
wakey Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Chris Custodiet said: Anyway I just want to refresh my memory on how Sam came to the conclusion that the guy who spent £185million on BWFC was a 'ruthless business man' You seem clued up on finances Chris (think you've mentioned previously you're an accountant). Couple of genuine questions for you, as nobody seems to have a plausible explanation. Based on past history, approximately what proportion of (reported) net worth have the most generous of benefactors chucked into any football club. Roughly what do you think Eddie's net worth was. How do you explain the whopping discrepancy. Incidentally, I've no doubt £180+m went into the club - it's impossible that it didn't - but struggling to understand how Eddie could be the source of anything like that level of brass.
Tombwfc Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 17 minutes ago, wakey said: You seem clued up on finances Chris (think you've mentioned previously you're an accountant). Couple of genuine questions for you, as nobody seems to have a plausible explanation. Based on past history, approximately what proportion of (reported) net worth have the most generous of benefactors chucked into any football club. Roughly what do you think Eddie's net worth was. How do you explain the whopping discrepancy. Incidentally, I've no doubt £180+m went into the club - it's impossible that it didn't - but struggling to understand how Eddie could be the source of anything like that level of brass. What do you think happened? I get the discrepancy, but unless you have a better idea than what's in the accounts, that is the only plausible explanation.
birch-chorley Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 He didn’t really put £180m in did he? Lets say he put £30m in at the start to stop us going bust and then bits and pieces here and there over the years, say another £20m The rest was the 10% interest compounding over time wasn’t it? By rights he could claim he was owed the full £180m but in reality the assets in the club were never worth even a third of it. You can owe yourself as much as you want on paper, I could owe myself £1bn if I felt like it I was of the impression it was for tax purposes. If ever we say produced a great player and sold them for £80m, we wouldn’t have to pay corporation tax on the profit as there would be no profit in the accounts, the transfer fee would get swallowed up paying the huge ‘debt’ off toMoonshift
RoadRunnerFan Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 Somebody off here went through years of accounts and got it to about £150m iirc. The higher interest rates only applied when the debt was much lower.
gonzo Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17473210.takeover-at-bolton-wanderers-hangs-in-the-balance/
Steejay Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, gonzo said: https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17473210.takeover-at-bolton-wanderers-hangs-in-the-balance/ We could do with a statement from this Basran's lot eh? It's out there that it's their group that are involved but this is driving me mad. We know that Iles will spin it negatively & we can't believe what Ken says so FFS, please let us know a bit more about what's going on!
Mounts Kipper Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, gonzo said: https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17473210.takeover-at-bolton-wanderers-hangs-in-the-balance/ No surprise. Would you bother jumping through KA hoops when he’s got 2 weeks to pay the debts or lose his ownership? Edited March 4, 2019 by Mounts Kipper
Chris Custodiet Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, birch-chorley said: He didn’t really put £180m in did he? Lets say he put £30m in at the start to stop us going bust and then bits and pieces here and there over the years, say another £20m The rest was the 10% interest compounding over time wasn’t it? By rights he could claim he was owed the full £180m but in reality the assets in the club were never worth even a third of it. You can owe yourself as much as you want on paper, I could owe myself £1bn if I felt like it I was of the impression it was for tax purposes. If ever we say produced a great player and sold them for £80m, we wouldn’t have to pay corporation tax on the profit as there would be no profit in the accounts, the transfer fee would get swallowed up paying the huge ‘debt’ off toMoonshift Sorry Birchy, but yours is a common misconception. I heard a shareholder saying much the same thing at the AGM last May. I am a little surprised that none of the accountants on WW ever got round to working out the figures but, as I am retired, I do have a bit more time to spend on useless activity. Anyway here are the figures: The £185.5million loan debt all accrued after Sam Allardyce left. The relevant figures are all shown in Burnden Leisure's audited accounts each year. From 2008 to 2015 inclusive Burnden Leisure incurred interest and finance costs of £32.9million. £9.0million of this was paid to banks were the brrowings were much smaller. £23.9million accrued on the Moonshift loans. £9.5million of this was included in an accruals account which was written off in 2015 whilst the other £14.4million is reflected in the £185.5million Moonshift loan. In other words the capital contributed by Moonshift between 2008 and 2015 was £171.1m (£185.5 - £14.4m) The figures before that date are not that easy to identify but suffice to say that newspaper reports put ED's contribution at between £12m and £14m. I can't confirm either figure but would not dispute that they are probably about right. These figures do not include the £3m ED donated in return for the naming rights of the academy in 2006/07 nor the £5m loaned in September 2018 to pay off Blumarble. Where did all this money come from? When ED retired in 2005, he sold most of his shares in Strix for an estimated £100million. He had also sold some shares in 1999/2000 when his partner John Taylor, retired. I estimate that this probably realised about £15m for Eddie. The £100m seemed to have been invested in emerging economies and I expect did very well over the next ten years or so. Not so well though that it was a bottomless pit of money. It should not have been a surprise to anyone when he eventually had to draw the line. P.S. Lets keep it short. ED never drew (and probably never intended to draw) the share of profit he was entitled to for guaranteeing the loan that was used to buy Nicolas Anelka. Edited March 4, 2019 by Chris Custodiet
Guest Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: No surprise. Would you bother jumping through KA hoops when he’s got 2 weeks to pay the debts or lose his ownership? Iles says they have stopped due diligence which rather suggests that process has thrown up an insurmountable obstacle. I hope it’s just a game of chicken. But it’s sounding ominous now.
Ani Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Iles says they have stopped due diligence which rather suggests that process has thrown up an insurmountable obstacle. I hope it’s just a game of chicken. But it’s sounding ominous now. Where does he say that? Due diligence always brings up questions so goood news is that they are doing a proper job. Bad news is if anything comes that does mean they pull out. Neither side will or should comment during this process.
MancWanderer Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 I'm starting to believe the man in the pub who told my brother that there never was a deal involving this lot
Guest Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, Ani said: Where does he say that? Due diligence always brings up questions so goood news is that they are doing a proper job. Bad news is if anything comes that does mean they pull out. Neither side will or should comment during this process. He says it in a twitter reply.....
radcliffe white Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/17473753.bolton-wanderers-supporters-trust-could-help-staff-in-pay-crisis/
Eddie Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 1 hour ago, RoadRunnerFan said: Somebody off here went through years of accounts and got it to about £150m iirc. The higher interest rates only applied when the debt was much lower. I did it. You’re right, it was about £150m of genuine cash and about £25m of accrued interest, I also reconciled pretty close how we got to those figures with transfers, losses etc. but it doesn’t fit people’s agendas and I’m not going over old ground again. The fact that people who know their way round accounts, myself included, all seem to come to the same conclusion will do for me. It’s just a shame that people who have no fucking idea throw shit like “net worth” which they found on a random internet site, “tax dodge” and “all interest” around which tarnished what he actually did for us.
Chris Custodiet Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 1 hour ago, RoadRunnerFan said: Somebody off here went through years of accounts and got it to about £150m iirc. The higher interest rates only applied when the debt was much lower. Its not the main issue of the day but if anyone had done their figures up to 2014 they wouldn't have known about the £9.5m in the accruals account nor the further loan in 2014/15 and so would have got to c.£150m.
radcliffe white Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 Anyone’s season ticket direct debits come out today?
marple whites Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 No - just checked that - very odd - as surely this revenue would pay the wages ?
Guest Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, marple whites said: No - just checked that - very odd - as surely this revenue would pay the wages ? I think its an HMRC OR Bank itself freeze on accounts.... Anything else and they'd have made a statement by now.....
Rizlar Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 Sick of it all on and off the pitch we are becoming a joke.
wakey Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 28 minutes ago, Chris Custodiet said: Where did all this money come from? When ED retired in 2005, he sold most of his shares in Strix for an estimated £100million. He had also sold some shares in 1999/2000 when his partner John Taylor, retired. I estimate that this probably realised about £15m for Eddie. The £100m seemed to have been invested in emerging economies and I expect did very well over the next ten years or so. Out of interest, where do you get the £100m from Chris? Ed's wealth generally seems to be reported at c£60m. I did some digging a couple of years ago (when it seemed far more relevant than it is now) and if you look hard enough, you can find some reference to Moonshift investing in retail in Brazil, but nothing to suggest any great scale or success. From memory, one was a shopping mall that collapsed. They also owned a business (possibly the one investing in Brazil, sorry can't remember) that was AIM listed then de-listed within a couple of years and seemingly struggling. To be clear, I don't dispute the numbers in the accounts, subscribe to the 'fake money' nonsense, or believe that PG or Ed did anything other than what they believed to be in the club's best interest to raise the amount of finance required to compete (to stay) in the premier league. It's ancient history now - my main curiosity is how clearly intelligent people seem willing to accept something so implausible. Ed put a significant amount of his own money into the club, but was never in a position to put £150m+ in cash in.
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