Bury

[radcliffe white]

Been knocked back on joining league 2 next season 

[Leyther_Matt]

1 minute ago, radcliffewhite1 said:

Been knocked back on joining league 2 next season 

Correct decision IMO, and I would have said the same if it was us. Wouldn’t be fair on the all the clubs who have previously had to start again lower down. 

[Breightmet Boy]

Going off what Sharon Brittain said in her interview I very much doubt we voted against them.   It's shit that the owner walks away Scott free only for the club, it's staff and fans to pay the consequences 

[Rudy]

I know it’s easy to say because we still exist but it would have been dangerous precedent to set from the league to just put them in L2 

Feel for the fans though. 

[leigh white]

I remember being on the same train as Miami heading north when Bury were playing Carlisle away not long ago, we were taking the piss. I feel sorry for the poor fans now.

[Johnnyrotten]

I dont see the problem with a 'precedent' being set.  We'd be saying that if someone buys your club and overspends (or has no money in the first place) and leaves the club unable to function, the club gets the following punishment:  No matches or income for a whole season; loses all its contracted players, including academy players which may have potentially been worth significant transfer fees, loses all coaching and management staff, and probably all admin staff; start the following season in the division below.  Maybe throw in a 10 point deduction as well to ensure they cant get promoted straight back.  How is that a dangerous precedent, I dont see many clubs saying "I'll have a bit of that".  And I'm not interested in what's gone on before, let's have justice for clubs now and in the future.

[Rudy]

28 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I dont see the problem with a 'precedent' being set.  We'd be saying that if someone buys your club and overspends (or has no money in the first place) and leaves the club unable to function, the club gets the following punishment:  No matches or income for a whole season; loses all its contracted players, including academy players which may have potentially been worth significant transfer fees, loses all coaching and management staff, and probably all admin staff; start the following season in the division below.  Maybe throw in a 10 point deduction as well to ensure they cant get promoted straight back.  How is that a dangerous precedent, I dont see many clubs saying "I'll have a bit of that".  And I'm not interested in what's gone on before, let's have justice for clubs now and in the future.

It’s the rules of being expelled from the league. Say this happens to a Championship club which seems more and more likely every season do they just get thrown into L1?

[Johnnyrotten]

Yes, miss a whole season, get relegated and take a 10 point penalty and have to rebuild the whole squad and bathroom staff.  I must be missing something here but how is that getting off lightly?  Aston Villa nearly went to the wall if they hadnt been saved by a promotion and I'd have no desire to see them starting again in the Midlands League.

[Leyther_Matt]

12 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Yes, miss a whole season, get relegated and take a 10 point penalty and have to rebuild the whole squad and bathroom staff.  I must be missing something here but how is that getting off lightly?  Aston Villa nearly went to the wall if they hadnt been saved by a promotion and I'd have no desire to see them starting again in the Midlands League.

I’m sure Darlington, Chester, Hereford and the like would have happily taken all that compared to where they ended up.  

[Johnnyrotten]

Bathroom staff....!!  But didnt those clubs cease to exist and then had to reapply to get in a semi professional league, like Wimbledon?  Correct me if I'm wrong.  Bury FC still exist as a company as far as I'm aware, they just arent allowed to play football matches because they don't have a league that will let them.  Irrespective of that, I dont go along with punishing a club just because a previous club was punished 20 years ago, let's just get it right from now.  

[Duck Egg]

One of the criticisms of the EFL at the time Bury were kicked out, was that they wouldn't consider or look at the 2 or 3 other serious bids that had also been made for the club.  Since the EFL called time, not one of these 'serious' bidders have materialised. No wonder the EFL lost patience

[Leyther_Matt]

9 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Bathroom staff....!!  But didnt those clubs cease to exist and then had to reapply to get in a semi professional league, like Wimbledon?  Correct me if I'm wrong.  Bury FC still exist as a company as far as I'm aware, they just arent allowed to play football matches because they don't have a league that will let them.  Irrespective of that, I dont go along with punishing a club just because a previous club was punished 20 years ago, let's just get it right from now.  

Bar Chester, they all started and finished the season though. Nuneaton have even been allowed to go back to their original name. With all the backhanded stuff going on in the Championship with the stadium deals etc, on this occasion the EFL are spot on not to create a precedent. Even from our point of view it might have made a certain amount of sense to sack off this season and the associated costs if we knew we were only going to drop one division at the end of it. 

[SatanGreavsie]

Still thinking about what I said a while back. If they restructure promotions/relegations so that EFL stays at 92, and they want National to stay at full amount then it must leave Nations N and S short handed. So do summat to look after Bury for a year to stay as an entity, then bung them in there. Next season  - if they'd not have had the off field crap - it's quite likely they'd have started in 3rd tier. Now they'd be in the 6th. So a fair old demotion but without crucifying them. They'd only be a division below a load of teams with League pedigree (Halifax, Notts, Stockport, Torquay, Hartlepool, Wrexham, Chesterfield - assuming non of them go up this year) and indeed the way its looking Chesterfield could be in that division with them (as will be some of York, Chester, Hereford and Darlington). So only a few years from being back in their usual haunts, but a word of warning to others.

[bwfcfan5]

9 hours ago, Duck Egg said:

One of the criticisms of the EFL at the time Bury were kicked out, was that they wouldn't consider or look at the 2 or 3 other serious bids that had also been made for the club.  Since the EFL called time, not one of these 'serious' bidders have materialised. No wonder the EFL lost patience

Why would anyone pay £7M when it doesn't include the golden share allowing league membership?

That's backwards. The EFL's action effectively killed dead any takeover or potential to save the club as is. 

Given the mess re stadium and mortgages Bury fans would be best off starting again somewhere else. 

[Leyther_Matt]

1 hour ago, SatanGreavsie said:

Still thinking about what I said a while back. If they restructure promotions/relegations so that EFL stays at 92, and they want National to stay at full amount then it must leave Nations N and S short handed. So do summat to look after Bury for a year to stay as an entity, then bung them in there. Next season  - if they'd not have had the off field crap - it's quite likely they'd have started in 3rd tier. Now they'd be in the 6th. So a fair old demotion but without crucifying them. They'd only be a division below a load of teams with League pedigree (Halifax, Notts, Stockport, Torquay, Hartlepool, Wrexham, Chesterfield - assuming non of them go up this year) and indeed the way its looking Chesterfield could be in that division with them (as will be some of York, Chester, Hereford and Darlington). So only a few years from being back in their usual haunts, but a word of warning to others.

Think you mean they'd have started in the 4th tier rather than the 3rd so it is only a two division drop and would replicate when Boston were demoted from League Two directly to Conference North so there is something of a precedent there already.

[Burndens Bogs]

The EFL should have given Bury another 2 weeks to get a deal done with the new buyer - if there ever was one.

[MalcolmW]

2 hours ago, SatanGreavsie said:

Still thinking about what I said a while back. If they restructure promotions/relegations so that EFL stays at 92, and they want National to stay at full amount then it must leave Nations N and S short handed. So do summat to look after Bury for a year to stay as an entity, then bung them in there. Next season  - if they'd not have had the off field crap - it's quite likely they'd have started in 3rd tier. Now they'd be in the 6th. So a fair old demotion but without crucifying them. They'd only be a division below a load of teams with League pedigree (Halifax, Notts, Stockport, Torquay, Hartlepool, Wrexham, Chesterfield - assuming non of them go up this year) and indeed the way its looking Chesterfield could be in that division with them (as will be some of York, Chester, Hereford and Darlington). So only a few years from being back in their usual haunts, but a word of warning to others.

They are going to the fifth tier - National League. Only one club is being relegated from EFL League 2 this season, the National North and National South are not affected if Bury do take up the place on offer.

[Sweep]

15 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I dont see the problem with a 'precedent' being set.  We'd be saying that if someone buys your club and overspends (or has no money in the first place) and leaves the club unable to function, the club gets the following punishment:  No matches or income for a whole season; loses all its contracted players, including academy players which may have potentially been worth significant transfer fees, loses all coaching and management staff, and probably all admin staff; start the following season in the division below.  Maybe throw in a 10 point deduction as well to ensure they cant get promoted straight back.  How is that a dangerous precedent, I dont see many clubs saying "I'll have a bit of that".  And I'm not interested in what's gone on before, let's have justice for clubs now and in the future.

So, but that logic, a Championship club can chuck millions and millions at getting promoted, and if they fail, they know worst case is season off and getting relegated one division?  -  From this point on, teams need to know that wildly spending beyond their means, could ultimately end up in expulsion, you would hope that would help reign things in a bit (although it probably won't)

[tomski]

2 hours ago, Sweep said:

So, but that logic, a Championship club can chuck millions and millions at getting promoted, and if they fail, they know worst case is season off and getting relegated one division?  -  From this point on, teams need to know that wildly spending beyond their means, could ultimately end up in expulsion, you would hope that would help reign things in a bit (although it probably won't)

I think we will find out soon enough. Derby would be my guess.

why can’t the EFL just have a list of rules other than a case by case scenario. Imo they set themselves up for all the stick that comes their way

[Duck Egg]

8 hours ago, bwfcfan5 said:

Why would anyone pay £7M when it doesn't include the golden share allowing league membership?

That's backwards. The EFL's action effectively killed dead any takeover or potential to save the club as is. 

Given the mess re stadium and mortgages Bury fans would be best off starting again somewhere else. 

Agree, it would be madness but the potential buyer from Brazil was quoted  at the time as saying he wasn't looking for a return on his money, he just wanted to help.  Where is he? I expect he was another charlatan /tyre kicker that these situations seem to attract.  The Shakers were asking the EFL to hold back on their action based on empty promises from such types.

At least they know now.  A fresh start and a chance to rebuild the club from scratch.

[Mannyroader]

21 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I dont see the problem with a 'precedent' being set.  We'd be saying that if someone buys your club and overspends (or has no money in the first place) and leaves the club unable to function, the club gets the following punishment:  No matches or income for a whole season; loses all its contracted players, including academy players which may have potentially been worth significant transfer fees, loses all coaching and management staff, and probably all admin staff; start the following season in the division below.  Maybe throw in a 10 point deduction as well to ensure they cant get promoted straight back.  How is that a dangerous precedent, I dont see many clubs saying "I'll have a bit of that".  And I'm not interested in what's gone on before, let's have justice for clubs now and in the future.

A complete non starter.

Do you really think the EFL can set a rule to throw dozens or hundreds of people out of work through no fault of their own? EFL rulings would not trump the law of the land. People in work have legal protections.

[Johnnyrotten]

7 hours ago, Sweep said:

So, but that logic, a Championship club can chuck millions and millions at getting promoted, and if they fail, they know worst case is season off and getting relegated one division?  -  From this point on, teams need to know that wildly spending beyond their means, could ultimately end up in expulsion, you would hope that would help reign things in a bit (although it probably won't)

There should be a salary cap like in rugby.  People (let's not say clubs, its temporary owners) simply shouldn't be allowed to wildly overspend like Mandaric did at Pompey, and Ridsdale at Leeds.  I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying in that we need a deterrent, but your scenario means a Steve Dale can pop along to Bury, sign a few players he cant afford, mortgage the car park or whatever he did, and clear off guaranteeing expulsion for a historic club.  For all anyone knows he could have done that because he'd had a fall out with someone at Bury, in much the way we fear Anderson made things worse for BWFC because he felt out with the fans.  The owners dont care, they move on, so yes I think the punishment you suggest is draconian given that the punishment is for people that have done nothing wrong ie football fans, and also the players and staff.

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, Mannyroader said:

A complete non starter.

Do you really think the EFL can set a rule to throw dozens or hundreds of people out of work through no fault of their own? EFL rulings would not trump the law of the land. People in work have legal protections.

I think you've taken my suggestion the wrong way, I didnt mean the EFL instigates people losing their jobs, I'm saying that job losses are an inevitable cosequence of having no matches for a year.  So its a significant 'punishment' even if its just an indirect one.

[MickyD]

54 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

There should be a salary cap like in rugby.  People (let's not say clubs, its temporary owners) simply shouldn't be allowed to wildly overspend like Mandaric did at Pompey, and Ridsdale at Leeds.  I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying in that we need a deterrent, but your scenario means a Steve Dale can pop along to Bury, sign a few players he cant afford, mortgage the car park or whatever he did, and clear off guaranteeing expulsion for a historic club.  For all anyone knows he could have done that because he'd had a fall out with someone at Bury, in much the way we fear Anderson made things worse for BWFC because he felt out with the fans.  The owners dont care, they move on, so yes I think the punishment you suggest is draconian given that the punishment is for people that have done nothing wrong ie football fans, and also the players and staff.

But no mention of Eddie Davies at Bolton?

What amazes me is that teams like ManU are running up millions in debt but aren't in shit street. What happens when all these billionaire owners to get bored with backing football teams? 

[dusan nikolic]

3 minutes ago, MickyD said:

But no mention of Eddie Davies at Bolton?

What amazes me is that teams like ManU are running up millions in debt but aren't in shit street. What happens when all these billionaire owners to get bored with backing football teams? 

Other billionaires will buy the top clubs , it's when teams around the size of bolton / Portsmouth etc , lose their backing that's when the shit hits the fan.

Edited September 27, 2019 by dusan nikolic