The Owners

[LeggyMountbatten]

I understand that the pandemic is going to blow a hole in most club's finances but relying on the kindness of strangers doesn't seem to be a sustainable way to run a football club.

If we are so potless, why do we keep hiring people at exec level?  At the last count we have Beaugard, Andy Gartside, Phoenix - is Marland still there?  It just seems like overkill for a L2 club hemorrhaging money left, right and centre.

[tomski]

Agreed. It’s becoming tedious how much we mortgage everything off. 

[tomski]

2 hours ago, Marc505 said:

No, but then they (and many other clubs) probably weren't factoring a globally crippling pandemic into their calculations either.

Supposedly was agreed in March. I’d suspect this was agreed beforehand. 

[RoadRunnerFan]

4 hours ago, LeggyMountbatten said:

I understand that the pandemic is going to blow a hole in most club's finances but relying on the kindness of strangers doesn't seem to be a sustainable way to run a football club.

If we are so potless, why do we keep hiring people at exec level?  At the last count we have Beaugard, Andy Gartside, Phoenix - is Marland still there?  It just seems like overkill for a L2 club hemorrhaging money left, right and centre.

Aye it worked so much better with a one man board. 

[Ani]

Fuck me it must be a quiet news day if people are worrying about the fact that a deal that was done against the clock has been tweaked in the next few months. 
 

A few years I worked on a Joint Venture which held monthly review meetings so the two parties could put forward changes to the deal as the market changed. 

[Traf]

Can we not just talk about Dominic Cummings instead? 😉

[Benny The Ball]

2 hours ago, Ani said:

Fuck me it must be a quiet news day if people are worrying about the fact that a deal that was done against the clock has been tweaked in the next few months. 
 

A few years I worked on a Joint Venture which held monthly review meetings so the two parties could put forward changes to the deal as the market changed. 

Ah but - Was that a business coming out of Insolvency ? 

Surely administrator required proof of funding over 2-3 years and If ( and it is an If , because we dont have all the facts )  6 months down the line its being renegotiated with the major creditor -  its got to be a major concern . Irrespective of Covid . 

 

 

[Mounts Kipper]

1 hour ago, Benny The Ball said:

Ah but - Was that a business coming out of Insolvency ? 

Surely administrator required proof of funding over 2-3 years and If ( and it is an If , because we dont have all the facts )  6 months down the line its being renegotiated with the major creditor -  its got to be a major concern . Irrespective of Covid . 

 

 

I’m sure that FV had to show 2 years of funding, it’s only 2 months without games and they still have had the season ticket money, piss poor if they are already struggling. 

[Escobarp]

3 hours ago, Benny The Ball said:

Ah but - Was that a business coming out of Insolvency ? 

Surely administrator required proof of funding over 2-3 years and If ( and it is an If , because we dont have all the facts )  6 months down the line its being renegotiated with the major creditor -  its got to be a major concern . Irrespective of Covid . 

 

 

The only person who needed proof of funding was the efl. It isn’t a stipulation of coming out of admin. 

[Benny The Ball]

3 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

The only person who needed proof of funding was the efl. It isn’t a stipulation of coming out of admin. 

So Eddie Davies Trustees just say  - if its good enough for you Mr EFL  that's good enough for me ? 

[Escobarp]

Just now, Benny The Ball said:

So Eddie Davies Trustees just say  - if its good enough for you Mr EFL  that's good enough for me ? 

Eddie Davies trust will get paid whatever happens to the club I believe. It if gets liquidated they get paid out. So they aren’t really interested if the club has funding as a going concern. Other than to save face and not tarnish the legacy of Eddie obviously. 
 

the only people who wanted to see a 3 year proof of funding was the efl. 
 

admins need to obtain the best deal for creditors thats it. That’s the only thing they are obliged to do really. As well as line their own pockets of course. 

[Benny The Ball]

5 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

Eddie Davies trust will get paid whatever happens to the club I believe. It if gets liquidated they get paid out. So they aren’t really interested if the club has funding as a going concern. Other than to save face and not tarnish the legacy of Eddie obviously. 
 

the only people who wanted to see a 3 year proof of funding was the efl. 
 

admins need to obtain the best deal for creditors thats it. That’s the only thing they are obliged to do really. As well as line their own pockets of course. 

They dont get "paid out "

They get the assets 

A former football stadium , and several pockets of land dotted around Horwich Lostock Walsall and Birmingham 

If you are accepting these as security , then before entering into an agreement to accept them as security you are going to want to know how the borrower offering them as security proposes to repay you and you are going to want to see some evidence of funding 

[Casino]

Walsall and birmingham?

[Escobarp]

4 minutes ago, Benny The Ball said:

They dont get "paid out "

They get the assets 

A former football stadium , and several pockets of land dotted around Horwich Lostock Walsall and Birmingham 

If you are accepting these as security , then before entering into an agreement to accept them as security you are going to want to know how the borrower offering them as security proposes to repay you and you are going to want to see some evidence of funding 

I spent 6 1/2 long years of my life dealing with this. And by this I mean admins and liquidations and recovering money for the main creditor. Which I was acting for in almost ever single situation. 
 

by paid out I mean they will get there money back. They will. That’s a shiny fact. 
 

if it wasn’t for edddies legacy and this wasn’t an emotive transaction for many and was just a normal company the trust would have folded us. Don’t let anyone ever try and convince you otherwise  

the debt owed to them was already secured on the assets. The assets are not going to decrease in value. They merely swapped the charges over in essence from one owner to another and agreed a payment plan knowing that they would get their money back. They have nothing to lose other than the time value of money 

the only  people really interested in us continuing to trade were the efl and any creditor who was on a repayment plan and unsecured or marginal. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Escobarp

[victor meldrew]

15 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

I spent 6 1/2 long years of my life dealing with this. And by this I mean admins and liquidations and recovering money for the main creditor. Which I was acting for in almost ever single situation. 
 

by paid out I mean they will get there money back. They will. That’s a shiny fact. 
 

if it wasn’t for edddies legacy and this wasn’t an emotive transaction for many and was just a normal company the trust would have folded us. Don’t let anyone ever try and convince you otherwise  

the debt owed to them was already secured on the assets. The assets are not going to decrease in value. They merely swapped the charges over in essence from one owner to another and agreed a payment plan knowing that they would get their money back. They have nothing to lose other than the time value of money 

the only  people really interested in us continuing to trade were the efl and any creditor who was on a repayment plan and unsecured or marginal. 

doesn't sound good

 

again

[Escobarp]

Just now, victor meldrew said:

doesn't sound good

 

again

I’m not saying anything that should cause any concern. Apologies if that’s how it came over. 

I think we will be absolutely fine even with the current financial crisis.

 

[Benny The Ball]

8 minutes ago, Escobarp said:

I spent 6 1/2 long years of my life dealing with this. And by this I mean admins and liquidations and recovering money for the main creditor. Which I was acting for in almost ever single situation. 
 

by paid out I mean they will get there money back. They will. That’s a shiny fact. 
 

if it wasn’t for edddies legacy and this wasn’t an emotive transaction for many and was just a normal company the trust would have folded us. Don’t let anyone ever try and convince you otherwise  

the debt owed to them was already secured on the assets. The assets are not going to decrease in value. They merely swapped the charges over in essence from one owner to another and agreed a payment plan knowing that they would get their money back. They have nothing to lose other than the time value of money 

the only  people really interested in us continuing to trade were the efl and any creditor who was on a repayment plan and unsecured or marginal. 

I get all that but what we are talking about here - if Nixon is right - and that is what we are speculating on , is that an agreement entered into at the end of August 2019 may already be in arrears in terms of a "payment plan". 

If it is in arrears - then perhaps it goes a long way to explaining the presence and purpose since the new year of Peter Kenyon. 

If at the time of the Football Ventures acquisition ED trustees valued the assets at x million and agreed to accept those assets as security for monies owed to the trust of say Y million ,and FV have then defaulted on the payment plan , they may now be borrowing beyond that agreed limit , because they have no alternative , and accruing default interest rates , which may come back to bite. 

That's my concern 

Eddies legacy might not count for much second time around 

 

 

 

[Escobarp]

Just now, Benny The Ball said:

I get all that but what we are talking about here - if Nixon is right - and that is what we are speculating on , is that an agreement entered into at the end of August 2019 may already be in arrears in terms of a "payment plan". 

If it is in arrears - then perhaps it goes a long way to explaining the presence and purpose since the new year of Peter Kenyon. 

If at the time of the Football Ventures acquisition ED trustees valued the assets at x million and agreed to accept those assets as security for monies owed to the trust of say Y million ,and FV have then defaulted on the payment plan , they may now be borrowing beyond that agreed limit , because they have no alternative , and accruing default interest rates , which may come back to bite. 

That's my concern 

Eddies legacy might not count for much second time around 

 

 

 

Ok mate. I would agree that eddies legacy is unlikely to hold much sway this time round if it came to that 

but Nixon isn’t really coming out with much in the way of concrete facts as always. 
 

I think there has always been an acceptance from most that Kenyon was there to look at additional investment. I don’t think that’s changed. It may have become more important that’s for sure. 
 

the clubs silence is worrying. Easy to nip in bud if Its true. But FV have always been surprisingly quiet even from the outset. It’s their style it would appear. 
 

the impact of covid is extreme and the club probably feels it isn’t going to have paying punters in seats until maybe 2021. I expect they have re-forecasted a few weeks ago like many companies and they have discovered a hole. That needs filling. One way is to immediately try and renegotiate any payment plans or any debt and take any possible holidays. I think this is likely what’s happened. If I was them I would potentially have taken the same steps as they may have. It’s a time tested strategy. 
 

I suspect whoever was the mouthpiece leak pre takeover to Be the same person here. Kier Gordon perhaps?

i think we are perversely even more of an attractive proposition now than we were 12 months ago. I don’t think we will have an issue finding willing investors. It’s whether the price is right for both sides and what FV want to do with the club 

[gonzo]

Itk Sources say there’s been no default. 

 

(B*G E)

[Escobarp]

I think if we had defaulted there would be quite some fanfare around it.  Could be wrong but as I’ve said I suspect it’s a restructuring Of obligations which is quite commonplace in a business that’s less than 12 months in ownership and even more so Give the current situation. 

[Gonk]

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/18472990.bolton-wanderers-unconcerned-tabloid-financial-claims/

 

"Meanwhile, Wanderers have clarified the relevance of a charge against Bolton Sporting Ventures Ltd which has been highlighted on social media in the last 24 hours.

 

The Fildraw Trust has security on a patch of land to the South West corner of Mansell Way, which was documented at Companies House in March.

The club has explained, however, that the charge was agreed last August as part of the deal to take Wanderers out of administration and is not a new arrangement with the family of late owner, Eddie Davies.

Fildraw have two charges against club land as part of the deal with Football Ventures. The repayment term is not known but Wanderers have played down reports that they are struggling to make repayments during the pandemic lockdown."

[birch-chorley]

16 hours ago, Benny The Ball said:

Ah but - Was that a business coming out of Insolvency ? 

Surely administrator required proof of funding over 2-3 years and If ( and it is an If , because we dont have all the facts )  6 months down the line its being renegotiated with the major creditor -  its got to be a major concern . Irrespective of Covid . 

 

 

I assume the proof of funding that they sowed had them covering expected losses over 2-3 years, not all costs should revenue disappear unexpectedly 

However, with the squad reducing down to a handful of players next month, the rest of the staff on furlough and Business rates being written off I’d like to think the operational losses aren’t much bigger this summer than they would have been in normal circumstances 

[Casino]

29 minutes ago, Gonk said:

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/18472990.bolton-wanderers-unconcerned-tabloid-financial-claims/

 

"Meanwhile, Wanderers have clarified the relevance of a charge against Bolton Sporting Ventures Ltd which has been highlighted on social media in the last 24 hours.

 

The Fildraw Trust has security on a patch of land to the South West corner of Mansell Way, which was documented at Companies House in March.

The club has explained, however, that the charge was agreed last August as part of the deal to take Wanderers out of administration and is not a new arrangement with the family of late owner, Eddie Davies.

Fildraw have two charges against club land as part of the deal with Football Ventures. The repayment term is not known but Wanderers have played down reports that they are struggling to make repayments during the pandemic lockdown."

 

 

i wonder who thought the place to put the latest info was on the end of a piece about fans raising money for tony kelly

[Steejay]

12 minutes ago, Casino said:

 

 

i wonder who thought the place to put the latest info was on the end of a piece about fans raising money for tony kelly

DC

[Marc505]

So, the Club Statement this week.

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2020/june/club-statement/

Are you in the nothing to see here camp or the out, all out, everybody out camp?

The former for me, but that's based in hope for stability and wishing FV well, not any actual business or accounting knowledge.