What do we think?

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

He already has been this season.

Sorry, I meant more of an official coaching role and not playing. 

10 hours ago, Eddie said:

Bang on for me. 532 works very well quite a bit of the time - there’s no need to rip it up and never see it again because a few teams have worked out how to combat it. Plenty haven’t, especially at our place where it’s just won us the joint most points at home in the league.

It’s that ability / willingness to switch it up that he really needs and I can’t understand why he’s so reluctant when he’s spent good chunks of his time with us playing different systems. We cannot be so predictable again next season, we can’t be so arrogant to think that we can exactly sign-post what we are going to do to every team we play against, regardless of who they are, and still think we are good enough to beat them even though they have our exact blueprint of how the 90 mins will pan out - right down to which subs and when.

If teams turn up wondering whether it’ll be a back 4 or a back 3, whether the wing backs are the main threat or we’re going to play off a big man and hit channels, then they can’t spend the week doing the same drill as to what happens when we get a goal kick.

Most of the time we can keep doing what we’re doing, only hopefully with a bit more bollocks added to the team, but just sometimes when it’s needed, it’d be nice to see us throw in a surprise and give the opposition a proper question to answer.

Exactly this. He's had 2 big changes of formation during a season which both years saw drastic improvements (3-5-2 to 4-2-3-1 in 20/21 & 4-2-3-1 back to 3-5-2 January the season after) There's no reason he can't make BOTH systems work and have players that are flexible enough to fit into both systems in different roles.

Opposition spends all week working on a high press expecting a back 3, we line up with a back 4 and they have to alter their gameplan to try and work out how to combat that. Then we have the option of trying to push home advantage against an 'underprepared' tactic or to switch it up again and keep them guessing.

Evatt's main issue for me is the rigidity of not changing it up, thinking that this will trump all other sided, and not being able to change it up enough once someone is sussed us out, either through pressing us high or sitting in completely.

4 minutes ago, BeeversLeftPeg said:

Exactly this. He's had 2 big changes of formation during a season which both years saw drastic improvements (3-5-2 to 4-2-3-1 in 20/21 & 4-2-3-1 back to 3-5-2 January the season after) There's no reason he can't make BOTH systems work and have players that are flexible enough to fit into both systems in different roles.

Opposition spends all week working on a high press expecting a back 3, we line up with a back 4 and they have to alter their gameplan to try and work out how to combat that. Then we have the option of trying to push home advantage against an 'underprepared' tactic or to switch it up again and keep them guessing.

Evatt's main issue for me is the rigidity of not changing it up, thinking that this will trump all other sided, and not being able to change it up enough once someone is sussed us out, either through pressing us high or sitting in completely.

One of our best halves this season was away at Northampton.

With 10 men!

4 at the back, 3 up front. Collins and CMG looked fantastic as wingers that half! 

I know CMG went on to become injured, but he really should have considered this again.

There have been a good number of occasions when change has been forced onto him & it's looked better than his rigid shape. The Barnsley first half has been a highlight in recent weeks & we almost played big boot. I thought 'he DOES understand'. Turns out he didn't.

All part of his stubborness.

Teams know what to expect from us. That's only going to become more acute next year.

23 minutes ago, desperado said:

One of our best halves this season was away at Northampton.

With 10 men!

4 at the back, 3 up front. Collins and CMG looked fantastic as wingers that half! 

I know CMG went on to become injured, but he really should have considered this again.

Exactly, it's no bad thing at all to have in your locker the ability to keep the oppostion guessing how you're going to line up all week.

I'm far from Evatt out and as bad as Saturday was, some of the stuff has been completely over the top, BUT he has to learn from this and show that ability to be humble enough to accept that the same tactics same formation every week clearly has it's limitations for me. 

Thinking About the midfield bastard we need 

IE did seemingly have two targets last summer, Baccus from St Mirren and that German bloke, neither of which came off 

From what I found about them they were the kind of enforcer we need in the middle so he was looking for one

When they didn't come off seems we've ended up trying to play GT in the role, a player we were going to sell 

I know he's not an enforcer but there must be a reason why he went out and got cards 50% of the time and perhaps distracted from doing what he's best at which is spreading the play with his range of passing 

Anyway

Number one target for me and then we need to plug the gap left by Magohma 

So two big signings in midfield required, I  don't mean big money, but players that will have a big impact on how we play and help resolve the issues of this season

21 minutes ago, desperado said:

One of our best halves this season was away at Northampton.

With 10 men!

4 at the back, 3 up front. Collins and CMG looked fantastic as wingers that half! 

I know CMG went on to become injured, but he really should have considered this again.

Although I voted go as I think he'll walk, I'm not too fussed if he's our manager again next season.

But I'd like him to recall stuff like this and hopefully learn from other managers.

Example.

Pompey at home. Other than our usual slow start, thought we were on top in the first half.

By 50 minutes or so, their manager had made 4 changes.

They didn't run us ragged at all, but it stopped us getting at them.

Same at derby.

Warne didn't wait all day to change things, and it worked.

1 hour ago, Greg_BWFC said:

Although I voted go as I think he'll walk, I'm not too fussed if he's our manager again next season.

But I'd like him to recall stuff like this and hopefully learn from other managers.

Example.

Pompey at home. Other than our usual slow start, thought we were on top in the first half.

By 50 minutes or so, their manager had made 4 changes.

They didn't run us ragged at all, but it stopped us getting at them.

Same at derby.

Warne didn't wait all day to change things, and it worked.

Not even just against the big teams. Leyton Orient at home, dominated the first half, their boss made some tweaks and they battered us while we stuck with the same formation and tactics. 

We will be the same next season under Evatt, one rigid way of playing, which will only possibly get changed if we're in the bottom half of the table in December. It's frustrating to say the least when we get out-managed during games.

Much as i like Evatt, i voted to go. His brand of football is great on the eye, but its been proved its not for Div 1 and no plan B.

10 minutes ago, waffer cup 07 said:

Much as i like Evatt, i voted to go. His brand of football is sometimes great on the eye, but its been proved its not for Div 1 and no plan B.

 

At least try 442, or like someone said earlier 433 with CMG (when fit) Dion and Collins playing on the right.

3 central defenders with 2 ineffective wingbacks doesn’t work all the time, although it would possibly work better with 2 decent wingbacks.

We are shackled most of the time with Santos, Gethin & Tommo being the first names on Evatts teamsheet.

Mix it up FFS, our rigid set up has been sussed.

Edited May 21, 20242 yr by Burndens Bogs

1 hour ago, Stig said:

Not even just against the big teams. Leyton Orient at home, dominated the first half, their boss made some tweaks and they battered us while we stuck with the same formation and tactics. 

We will be the same next season under Evatt, one rigid way of playing, which will only possibly get changed if we're in the bottom half of the table in December. It's frustrating to say the least when we get out-managed during games.

You're spot on with all that. I find it incredible/naive that anyone thinks IE will manage differently next season, weather that's here, Barrow or Man U. He's not a Coyle/Lennon type who seems to change formation & tactics every other week (badly!), he's very much a "this is how I play" manager like Pep and Big Ange, and at the other extreme Big Sam, Warnock, Pulis. It isn't changing, we know what he does, for better or for worse.

2 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

I find it incredible/naive that anyone thinks IE will manage differently next season, weather that's here, Barrow or Man U. 

It's not inconceivable he changes formation. He's done it before, from 433 to 352 then back. Even our 352 now has changed, with a 4 and two (wide-ish) 8s instead of two 4s/8s and a 10.

To me though, that isn't the issue. It's his lack of tactical nous in-game, his inability to make effective tweaks that we see so often from opposition managers against us, and - as you say - his inflexibility to vary things based on opposition (except LWB).

After 4 years of waiting for the promised land of exciting attacking football week in week out, I'm reluctantly of the view that we'll never get more than flashes and the odd game tempered by the massive disappointments when we just don't turn up.

Time for a change in my book, and probably the best time all round while Evatt's CV still looks impressive and he'll be relatively in demand.

1 hour ago, wakey said:

It's not inconceivable he changes formation. He's done it before, from 433 to 352 then back. Even our 352 now has changed, with a 4 and two (wide-ish) 8s instead of two 4s/8s and a 10.

To me though, that isn't the issue. It's his lack of tactical nous in-game, his inability to make effective tweaks that we see so often from opposition managers against us, and - as you say - his inflexibility to vary things based on opposition (except LWB).

After 4 years of waiting for the promised land of exciting attacking football week in week out, I'm reluctantly of the view that we'll never get more than flashes and the odd game tempered by the massive disappointments when we just don't turn up.

Time for a change in my book, and probably the best time all round while Evatt's CV still looks impressive and he'll be relatively in demand.

A good write up, valid points. I don't see all away games, and being honest if there are in-game tweeks to formations etc I may not notice half the time. But genuinely, when did we last start without either 3 CBs or 2 wing backs? From what I've seen, not in the last couple of years but happy to be corrected. And that's not intended as a criticism, lots of managers play the same formation successfully, I'm just wondering if I missed a change?

Never mind formations, in game tweets etc - I'll settle for being able to dig results out when we play badly.

When it's bad, it's dreadful. We have to be able to dig results out though or we toss loads of points away 

9 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

A good write up, valid points. I don't see all away games, and being honest if there are in-game tweeks to formations etc I may not notice half the time. But genuinely, when did we last start without either 3 CBs or 2 wing backs? From what I've seen, not in the last couple of years but happy to be corrected. And that's not intended as a criticism, lots of managers play the same formation successfully, I'm just wondering if I missed a change?

No, you've missed nowt. We've started every game this season with exactly the same formation.

Other than the slight and ineffective change for the sake of changing something * on Saturday - with Collins as a 10 but still 3 CBs - I think there's only Northampton away where we've changed formations. And that was with 10 men and chasing the game. Other games when we've had one sent off he's stuck to 3 CBs.

* literally Evatt's explanation

4 hours ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

There have been a good number of occasions when change has been forced onto him & it's looked better than his rigid shape. The Barnsley first half has been a highlight in recent weeks & we almost played big boot. I thought 'he DOES understand'. Turns out he didn't.

All part of his stubborness.

Teams know what to expect from us. That's only going to become more acute next year.

The way we played at Barnsley in that first leg made me think 'maybe he is prepared to change how we play to combat the opponents we struggle with'. I really liked it, we looked quick, direct when we needed to be, low risk around our goal but still every bit as dangerous.

If we'd adopted that approach selectively even half a dozen other times in the season we'd have been up through the autos easily. It showed also that the players we have could make a good fist of playing that way. All the more baffling that we could turn up last Sat and shrink back into scared stiff, hopelessly passive Stevenage mode.

18 minutes ago, wakey said:

No, you've missed nowt. We've started every game this season with exactly the same formation.

Other than the slight and ineffective change for the sake of changing something * on Saturday - with Collins as a 10 but still 3 CBs - I think there's only Northampton away where we've changed formations. And that was with 10 men and chasing the game. Other games when we've had one sent off he's stuck to 3 CBs.

* literally Evatt's explanation

Agreed. Can't really count playing with 10 men as a formation change, how can it stay the same with 1 less 😃.

I'm fairly sure we've never started without 3 CBs in last 2 years. And we won't next season under IE, even when it means playing players slightly out of position (Toal, Jones, Iredale). And regardless of the form of Cogley and others.  As said by others, we don't make it difficult for opposition managers to prepare do we.

57 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

As said by others, we don't make it difficult for opposition managers to prepare do we.

Absolutely not.

Take no pleasure in realising I'm in the time-for-a-change camp, but when we assess how we've done over the last 4 years, we've pretty much finished in line with our relative budget every time (admittedly a bit of speculation on my part re relative budgets).

If we do the same next season, it might not get us in the top 6.

And if we're chasing the dream of a sustainable model, we need a manager who can outperform budget, otherwise we join the masses getting exactly what they pay for and piling up debt.

Huge challenge to find the right man if he goes though.

1 hour ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Agreed. Can't really count playing with 10 men as a formation change, how can it stay the same with 1 less 😃.

I'm fairly sure we've never started without 3 CBs in last 2 years. And we won't next season under IE, even when it means playing players slightly out of position (Toal, Jones, Iredale). And regardless of the form of Cogley and others.  As said by others, we don't make it difficult for opposition managers to prepare do we.

Didn't we stick with 5 at the back this season when we went down to 10 v Bristol Rovers? Subbed off a striker and brought on Iredale and went 531.... One of the low points of the season

Well we are pretty much 48 hours on now and with chatter among the fans absolutely rife there's been nothing to quell it by way of the old fashioned board of directors "vote of confidence". That's probably not of note just yet but if there's been nowt over the next 24 hours it'll start to become interesting. 

5 minutes ago, paulhanley said:

Well we are pretty much 48 hours on now and with chatter among the fans absolutely rife there's been nothing to quell it by way of the old fashioned board of directors "vote of confidence". That's probably not of note just yet but if there's been nowt over the next 24 hours it'll start to become interesting. 

Think it needs a really strong statement on whichever way we are going and not just a thanks for your support and we really apologise blah blah.    That's gone, move on and quickly with conviction. 

Maybe both the manager and the owners are taking stock and are letting the emotion die down before making any statement on what is going to happen.

Which is the right thing to do.

3 days after the debacle, I say fuck him off

1 minute ago, DazBob said:

Maybe both the manager and the owners are taking stock and are letting the emotion die down before making any statement on what is going to happen.

Which is the right thing to do.

Yep. Not of note that nowt has been said yet but each day that passes without word from tomorrow onward makes things a little more interesting.