No Henderson in the provisional squad 

2 minutes ago, gonzo said:

A great call on the radio just then highlighting the issue of us not producing a proper ball playing midfielder that dictates the game.

We just don't seem to value them in this country. Rodri, Jorginho, Modric have all done us in finals/semis.

We never valued Carrick enough and same with Scholes who criminally got stuck out wide.

Rice is just not a proper 6. He doesn't play there for Arsenal and he can barely pass a ball.

Until we unearth a Rodri or Kroos we will always come short in the big games.

What I would say is there’s more than one way to skin a cat.

I agree fully we don’t have that type of Rodri, Modric, Kroos player in midfield and without that we will not be able to effectively dominate a game with possession.

But if we know that we don’t have that player then we either have to sacrifice possession as we did, or try to disrupt their possession using effective pressing.

We had enough quality on the pitch to press 10-15 yards higher up. Don’t let the Spanish play out from the back. Press them aggressively and don’t let them dominate the ball.

1 hour ago, desperado said:

I disagree.

Would love to be proved wrong in the USA. But for me it could be Klopp, Jose, Ancelotti, BSA, Howe or Carsley, I’m not convinced anyone will win it for us.

It’ll be same old same old. Fast forward 2 years and the thread will look the same. Unhappy people moaning and telling the manager how it should have been done to win the World Cup.

Do agree with your point about the ref blowing too early. Proper annoyed me that last night

I agree national managers don't get much time with the squad to shape how they play so can't have a massive effect. But they can make a difference on selecting on form players and setting a more attacking mindset.

Not saying we'd win the tournament with any of those mentioned, but you can't tell me all of them would play this negative way.

Oh well. Back to ignoring anything England related till USA 26 now for me.

Last night's game was more of an 'event' where folk will have been at the pub, had family round, been round at friends, etc.

Bit different to being sat at home, alone, watching Bolton lose in some backwater.

14 minutes ago, gonzo said:

A great call on the radio just then highlighting the issue of us not producing a proper ball playing midfielder that dictates the game.

We just don't seem to value them in this country. Rodri, Jorginho, Modric have all done us in finals/semis.

We never valued Carrick enough and same with Scholes who criminally got stuck out wide.

Rice is just not a proper 6. He doesn't play there for Arsenal and he can barely pass a ball.

Until we unearth a Rodri or Kroos we will always come short in the big games.

Hopefully Wharton and/or Mainoo will be that type of player.

4 minutes ago, DazBob said:

Last night's game was more of an 'event' where folk will have been at the pub, had family round, been round at friends, etc.

Bit different to being sat at home, alone, watching Bolton lose in some backwater.

🤣 Good point

Southgate sums himself up perfectly here 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9AfHHTIOAL/?igsh=MXVrdDhod3R3MjYyZw==

 

It would have been farcical had they won it.

Awful performances from start to finish.

So so lucky to even get to the final and the right result for football. 

Water finds its own level eventually.

58 years.

Absolutely staggering. 

Edited July 15, 20241 yr by captainmed

Spain were just all round a better team than anybody else. They were quick, moved well and instead of the tippy tappy crap that seems to have infested teams recently they played it out from the back quickly to two traditional wingers and two really good full backs who supported them. Every one of them was on the front foot when they received the ball and not half turning back all the time. To be fair it’s not rocket science and I just hope Evatt was watching how it’s done properly and prioritises wingers for us next season instead of wing backs.

1 hour ago, deeane Koontz said:

I'd not be surprised he also stunk up Spurs Champions League final playing while injured.

He did. He’s s big problem. Great player but definitely cost his sides trophies 

Also Spain are a fucking great side

Although never reached our full potential, surely were the 2nd best team in Europe. The last two Euros proves that.

The problems England encountered were so similar to what we saw last season at Bolton. 
 

Teams that transition quickly get us on the back foot and we then struggle to move up the pitch at all. How many times was Saka back defending rather than attacking ? As others have said Spain by far the better team and deserved winners. Too many of our so called star players with 5/10 or worse ratings thought tournament. Walker, Rice Foden , Bellingham and Kane all had poor tournaments 
 

IMO as at Bolton midfield was the issue. Of the 7 players listed as midfield 3 Foden Bellingham and Palmer are better known for what they do going forward and none are work horses. Wharton did not get a kick, Gallagher struggled when started. Rice and Mainoo end up playing deep. With Kane ineffective the attacking midfielders so hardly any ball throughout. 

kane, ronaldo & mbappe all holding their teams back 

managers not big enough to drop them 

all 3 teams better without them 

What was alarming last night was when we were chasing the game at 0-1 we were far better and played some great stuff, as soon as the equaliser went in, it was back to 10 men behind the ball soaking up pressure, was inevitible Spain would pummel us with all the space we gave them, that's down to Southgate and his safety fucking first tactics, time to fuck off Gazza.

This was fucking mind-blowing.

 

9 minutes ago, Cheese said:

This was fucking mind-blowing.

 

Yeah - felt a bit Evatt’s Bolton that moment. 

We'll not do much in 2026, we're looking at games being played in 30, 35, 40 degree temperatures off the back of another long season.

2028 in the UK will be the one where pressure will be on whoever is in charge and on the pitch to win it. Probably structure it so all our games are at Wembley again as well.

14 hours ago, L/H White said:

If we can be serious for a minute 

Id hazard a guess that Southgate has delivered our best England moments, 2 finals, a semi and a 1/4 final

Is this the best it gets for us? 

Do you truly believe another manager could get us over the line? If so, who? 

And a realistic appointment?

Imo our next manager will be Howe or Carsley, and they won't do as well as Southgate. 

 

I'm not underestimating the role GS has played in togetherness, man management and being a decent human being in charge of our national team.  That counts for a lot - Roy had it, Sven to an extent, even the much maligned McClaren, but not the Capello and neither would Morinho if he ever got the job.  So arguably its not a job that is purely about results.

But it would be hard to find a manager that didn't win the games GS won, and you never know another manager may have just won one of the games against top teams that we haven't won.  Not saying they would, but they couldn't have done any worse realistically.  Very few matches test the manager of a team with the wealth of quality we possess, and whenever we are tested, we come up short, and in this tournament we've also struggled against some very average opposition.  We aren't alone, its fine to have some off days, but I'm unsure which results we've got that you think a competent, experienced manager might have failed to deliver.  We've done exactly what the squad should have done with that run of fixtures, got to the final.  And no disgrace to lose to a quality Spain team, the outcome was par for the course in line with every other tournament under GS.

1 hour ago, Marc505 said:

We'll not do much in 2026, we're looking at games being played in 30, 35, 40 degree temperatures off the back of another long season.

2028 in the UK will be the one where pressure will be on whoever is in charge and on the pitch to win it. Probably structure it so all our games are at Wembley again as well.

Not dismissing that at all, but same for all teams.  Assuming GS is in charge, we'll get to the bit of the knockout stage where we play a top team.  No disgrace in that, but I would prefer us to be a bit more entertaining along the way, in line with the quality of midfielders and strikers we can pick from.

Edited July 15, 20241 yr by Johnnyrotten

13 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Not dismissing that at all, but same for all teams.  Assuming GS is in charge, we'll get to the bit of the knockout stage where we play a top team.  No disgrace in that, but I would prefer us to be a bit more entertaining along the way, in line with the quality of midfielders and strikers we can pick from.

True and it is a generalisation that probably doesnt stand up as much as it used to as so many non European players actually play in Europe and the PL now. 

Could actually say a more conservative style would suit the hotter conditions though, but youd probably have a hard time selling that to people for the 2 years running up to it!

Been really interesting seeing how the Copa America has gone, I know FIFA will be much tighter on organisation and things like pitch quality etc than CONMEBOL but it has sounded chaotic in the US, only a few stadiums air conditioned, ticketing a fiasco

Anyway. £5 million a year. Just let that sink in 

exactly my thoughts and feelings 

 

 

2 hours ago, Marc505 said:

We'll not do much in 2026, we're looking at games being played in 30, 35, 40 degree temperatures off the back of another long season.

2028 in the UK will be the one where pressure will be on whoever is in charge and on the pitch to win it. Probably structure it so all our games are at Wembley again as well.

2030 in Spain. This is where we will finally end the drought and extract revenge for last night.

 

2 minutes ago, bolty58 said:

2030 in Spain. This is where we will finally end the drought and extract revenge for last night.

 

Bet they put all our games in Morocco and make us play one of them opening matches in Paraguay.

Italia 90 style keep us off the mainland as long as possible 😂

25 minutes ago, royal white said:

Anyway. £5 million a year. Just let that sink in 

And no crunch games for another 2 years.  Not GS's fault, good luck to him, but it beggars belief how overrated the job is.  You can under perform, pick the wrong team and tactics, be unlucky and still qualify for tournaments and get to the Q-Fs minimum as long as the draw isn't cruel (same applies to Germany, Spain, Italy etc).

Bellamy at Wales could over perform, pick exactly the right team and tactics, have some luck and still not qualify for the WC or Euros, just because they might be playing Spain and Belgium or whoever.