On sale in the morning

9 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

A couple of years ago Dempsey, Morley, Sheehan and Sadlier between them felt like a genuine goal threat

And Lee.

Just got to hope Thomason and Dempsey can chip in soon, they are capable.

But I would settle for all those midfielders (and WBs) being the creators for the front 3 and them not scoring again 😊

10 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Before the goal I was thinking he was looking like his old self, winning all his challenges like swatting flies and one outstanding recovery tackle.  And his passing was faultless, then that, inexplicable in both intention and execution.  How he manages to turn it into an argument with Baxter is baffling.  We are miles from being successful if passes like that are part of our tactic and game plan, its like playing with one hand tied behind our back, giving the opposition an opportunity they don't have to earn.

I was thinking exactly the same, before the goal Santos had done a few fantastic things. But that pass…. just shocking. 

10 hours ago, Zico said:

We needed a quick fast start this season to put the last one behind us

Early days but it's not a great start and looks like nothing has changed

3 home games in a row now

Will get ugly in the stands if we don't win at least two

This is the big worry now. That type of result and performance so early in the season was always going to spark this reaction.

It will only be 3 (league) wins now that will put a sticking plaster on the situation.  

Honest question, does anybody seriously expect us to get promoted this season with Evatt in charge?

I was at fuck all chance at the conclusion of last season, seen everything that needs to be seen.

 

Right now it's a mare .

In his after match interview, he claimed responsibility for the 2 goals . " the team are playing to my instructions "

Spent long periods sitting in the dugout second half .

Saturday is now a massive game .

The pressure from Wembley was apparent in the stadium against Wrexham .

The crowd basically just sat there thinking, " well show us that things are different " .

Well right now there is NO change .

An abject first half and it will turn toxic.

Oh and Santos needs to be taken out of the firing line.

1 decent tackle yesterday accompanied by 2 headfuck moments. 

 

6 minutes ago, deeane Koontz said:

Honest question, does anybody seriously expect us to get promoted this season with Evatt in charge?

I was at fuck all chance at the conclusion of last season, seen everything that needs to be seen.

 

I'd say playoffs at best, probably not.

Edited August 25, 20241 yr by Blondi

11 minutes ago, embankment said:

Spent long periods sitting in the dugout second half .

I've noticed this before when we're losing, he goes and sits down (hides).

Own itand stand there with your team, such bad leadership IMO.

Not interested one bit in what Evatt has had to say, but then again I’ve never really paid much attention to post-match interviews anyway.

Without the two fuck ups it had 0-0 written all over it, and that’s probably what makes it even worse because we just laid it on a plate for them.

Another team who kicked the fuck out of Sheehan for the first 20 mins and then they know they can get on top. We so often struggled with three in midfield last season so it’s no wonder it’s happening again with only playing with two. 

Collins and McAtee can both be top drawer when they’re on it, but I don’t see how either of them fit in to any sort of structure, and so to play them both leaves us really short elsewhere when they’re just wandering about looking for scraps.

The whole situation with Santos is really getting a bit toxic now, too. I thought it was a little harsh that he became the poster boy for the Wembley failure as, now matter how scarring a mental image it is, him being stood on top of the bastard ball was because he had literally nobody to pass to apart from the other centre halves and goalkeeper. However, he absolutely triggered me yesterday, not with the mistake for the goal but when he made was should have been a simple, short pass and it ended up twatting someone in row C. Fucking pathetic from any professional footballer, but is completely exaggerated by him being the preening peacock who is always keen to blame others for what are just pure basic shortcomings.

Cracking day out with so many faces on here. But bloody hell it was a grim 90 minutes. 

32 minutes ago, perth_white said:

I think I've just lost faith. Oxford was abject and consistent with how we've performed in big games. Evatt has had great backing wrt to the level the club is at and brought in players in the summer who have excited the fanbase. I believe he's on record as saying 433 is his favoured formation, well fucking try it then. I really don't feel like I know better but the start to this season (4 games in) just feels the same. Someone suggested a back 4 that seemed sensible (Johnston, Santos, Toal, Tu-tu), I'd then try a midfield 3 that can accommodate Sheehan and Matete, with Vic up top allowing  Collins and McAtee to play either side. Sure it may not work but it seems to at least fit the players we have. First time I've ever criticised Evatt publically, hope he shoves it right back down my throat.

I think a lot of people wish he'd do that, it's not happened yet.

I've never been a massive fan of Evatt, but I've wanted him to prove me wrong; however I won't shed any tears when he does finally leave.

Two players in the middle away from home against a confident physical team is not enough. We're just going to get overrun. We are way too lightweight.

We need some muscle and grit in there especially to ride out the first 15 mins of an away game. We looked like last season. Physically weaker and smaller than the opposition. Bullied with heavy fouls early on that try and slow us down. That's not going to get us out of this league. No wonder we're after one of those Scottish players. At home we can go for a bit more flair but yesterday Dempsey has to start. 

Can't even comment on the two stupid give away goals and that horrible Santos pass. What's wrong with an occasional big boot down field to one of our three strikers who have replaced one of our midfielders.

 

I can’t understand why we’ve signed 2 new wingbacks but playing 3 up top, surely it makes it more difficult for the wingbacks to get down the channels in the final 3rd. Evatt defo needs to rethink if he’s going to go with Tutu & Schön.

Edited August 25, 20241 yr by Mounts Kipper

1 point from 6 against presumed (by the bookies) top-6 teams so far.

The club needs to get ruthless. Evatt has had some great moments and I'd still love it to work. But he hasn't done anything that's worth blind loyalty for years on end.

Three wins from three home league games (including Huddersfield) otherwise how can anyone justify him staying? 

5 hours ago, bolty58 said:

Not reading any of the above. I already know what will be said by the negheads.

The last time we won this division, we lost 3 of our first 7 games. No need for panic just yet. Still think IE should have gone at the end of last season. There's a nagging doubt that he may have reached the limit of his capabilities.

If FV thought he deserved another chance then who are we to argue? He'll either turn it around or be gone by Christmas.

This is as positive as anyone can be really.

I’m like you pal with a positive outlook, life’s too short. So most of my thoughts and time will be spent on how this turns around and believing it will for the better. Be that in the next few games with a winning run or ultimately IE going before Xmas.

I do however tend to read through all posts, as I like to hear a balanced perspective. The large majority on this occasion are fair with their concerns.

There are a few who only tend to pop up when things are shit, when they can wallow in negativity or when they have some experienced coaching advice to pass on. Rather than ignore I now just tend to smile when reading their bile. 😊

Walking away yesterday and it was just like leaving Wembley in May so many pissed of folk and also questioning if its worth spending time & money for more of the same

said from Orient Sheehan & GT can’t start together it simply doesn’t work ffs

For someone who supposedly one of the best defenders in the league santos is a liability and probably why nobody has come in for him

Yet again trains a mess considering we was booked on the 18.22 didn’t get through the door untill 23.30

 

 

14 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

I've never been a massive fan of Evatt, but I've wanted him to prove me wrong; however I won't shed any tears when he does finally leave.

This is where I am.

He's an uncomfortable character & difficult to love. But he's a football manager & his role is to get a team clicking, then the rest doesn't matter.

Like a lot of managers though he doesn't half talk some shit.

He's clearly fragile, as evidenced by his remarks that he nearly quit after the Oxford game. He needed to show that he's learnt some lessons. I'm seeing none of that. Other clubs have worked us out & if we stay still we're buried.

This has been ongoing since December, it's not a 3 game knee-jerk 

With him, sadly, we will stay still.

31 minutes ago, embankment said:

Right now it's a mare .

In his after match interview, he claimed responsibility for the 2 goals . " the team are playing to my instructions "

Spent long periods sitting in the dugout second half .

Saturday is now a massive game .

The pressure from Wembley was apparent in the stadium against Wrexham .

The crowd basically just sat there thinking, " well show us that things are different " .

Well right now there is NO change .

An abject first half and it will turn toxic.

Oh and Santos needs to be taken out of the firing line.

1 decent tackle yesterday accompanied by 2 headfuck moments. 

 

It's just a manager protecting his players. His instructions might be to play out from the back , but it's not play out from the back really slowly and give the ball away. 

Teams have figured out a way to stop us by harassing Sheehan, and we don't play out from the back well when he's not involved. I trust Evatt and the coaching staff to sort it out tactically. Plenty of time. No panic. 

13 hours ago, Dimron said:

I think we have been over coached for some time... 

Wasn't it Shankly who said football's a simple game complicated by idiots ...

4 minutes ago, radcliffe white said:

Walking away yesterday and it was just like leaving Wembley in May so many pissed of folk and also questioning if its worth spending time & money for more of the same

said from Orient Sheehan & GT can’t start together it simply doesn’t work ffs

For someone who supposedly one of the best defenders in the league santos is a liability and probably why nobody has come in for him

Yet again trains a mess considering we was booked on the 18.22 didn’t get through the door untill 23.30

 

 

Feel for you pal.

Missed out (quite pleased on reflection) yesterday due to family commitments. 

I think your concerns are valid. And when you spend your hard earned watching that shit it makes it even worse.

I’m sure you’ll have had a good day out though, you always do 😊. And we know it’s more than just the football.

I’ll catch up with you soon. Can’t make Tuesday, but Barrow and Crawley need ticking off, so I think I’ll be in for those 👍

10 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

However much we've improved or not improved, we don't have any more match winners than in previous years do we?  Charles is a constant over the last few seasons so no change there (except he rarely scores at home now).  We had the season when Charles, JDB, Bakayoko and Dapo were taking it in turns to score.  Plenty scorers last season and scored in every home game bar one.  But now we seem to have less without both Maghoma, and to a lesser extent CMG.  A couple of years ago Dempsey, Morley, Sheehan and Sadlier between them felt like a genuine goal threat, that midfield source of goals feels like a bygone age. Everything seems to happen 35 yards out, not in and around the penalty box.

Fair point. I think Collins and McAtee in particular are capable of creating something out of nothing, but then you could say the same with Dapo, Maghoma etc. 

Still baffling to think we've spent over £3million on our 6 current forwards (inc CMG) and look toothless.

 

4 minutes ago, Arrested development said:

It's just a manager protecting his players. His instructions might be to play out from the back , but it's not play out from the back really slowly and give the ball away. 

Teams have figured out a way to stop us by harassing Sheehan, and we don't play out from the back well when he's not involved. I trust Evatt and the coaching staff to sort it out tactically. Plenty of time. No panic. 

This with bells on. The signings weve made are designed to give us other options, Evatt had to give the majority of last season squad another bite of the cherry, clearly it’s not working so I’m expecting him to shake it up, go with the 2 wingbacks, chuck Matete into a 3 man midfield but that’ll need only 2 up top as can’t see a back 4 with 2 wingback types. So for me it’s a 5-3-2 the conundrum being where do you fit Collins and or Mcatee in that system. 

8 minutes ago, desperado said:

Feel for you pal.

Missed out (quite pleased on reflection) yesterday due to family commitments. 

I think your concerns are valid. And when you spend your hard earned watching that shit it makes it even worse.

I’m sure you’ll have had a good day out though, you always do 😊. And we know it’s more than just the football.

I’ll catch up with you soon. Can’t make Tuesday, but Barrow and Crawley need ticking off, so I think I’ll be in for those 👍

Going on Tuesday as it’s holidays so taking the lad, but after that I’m having a break until brum

yep football aside good day but it does take it toll maybe not a bad thing the way the fixtures fall this side of Xmas 

17 minutes ago, Arrested development said:

It's just a manager protecting his players. His instructions might be to play out from the back , but it's not play out from the back really slowly and give the ball away. 

Teams have figured out a way to stop us by harassing Sheehan, and we don't play out from the back well when he's not involved. I trust Evatt and the coaching staff to sort it out tactically. Plenty of time. No panic. 

Good post.

Although my trust and faith in Evatt is wearing thinner. I do disagree with “plenty of time” . I don’t think he has this on his side after Oxford.

6 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

This with bells on. The signings weve made are designed to give us other options, Evatt had to give the majority of last season squad another bite of the cherry, clearly it’s not working so I’m expecting him to shake it up, go with the 2 wingbacks, chuck Matete into a 3 man midfield but that’ll need only 2 up top as can’t see a back 4 with 2 wingback types. So for me it’s a 5-3-2 the conundrum being where do you fit Collins and or Mcatee in that system. 

I agree with that. Having another forward on the bench will give us better options to change things. And I think 3 in midfield will make us both more solid and more creative. 

38 minutes ago, deeane Koontz said:

Honest question, does anybody seriously expect us to get promoted this season with Evatt in charge?

I was at fuck all chance at the conclusion of last season, seen everything that needs to be seen.

 

It was obvious after Oxford. It wasn’t just an unlucky loss in the final. It was the fact we didn’t show up at all & couldn’t cope. You see plenty of top teams nullified creatively in big finals. It’s normal. But that our manager didn’t prepare them to expect that or to be mentally strong was a huge worry. They’re the basics for me. 
 

I had no faith after that. But like others, I was excited by the signings. Wondered if we’d come back hungry for revenge & make a positive start. Wanted to be proven wrong. 

But it’s just the same old story. And to be honest, some of Evatt’s tactical choices yesterday were the oddest I’ve seen so far. 
 

Seems obvious that Evatt can’t give us the things we need to get over the line this season. 

Folk may laugh at that with it only being 3 games in, but you can tell a lot from the opening games. 
 

You look at the PL for example & it’s obvious City & Arsenal will continue where they left off. You know the new boys will be lucky to stay up & you know United will be as inconsistent as ever. There will be plenty of surprises but some things are just there in plain sight from the off. 

11 hours ago, Duck Egg said:

I said earlier that I'm sure a different manager would get a better tune out of this group of players than Evatt currently is doing. 

Sheehan is a prime example. Like Bannan at SW, a great footballer but would you want him breaking up opposition attacks? McAtee a great forward. Shall we play him as a winger or an attacking midfielder? No! Play him as a feckin forward or leave him on the bench for tight away games.

Quite agree Duck Egg and feel the same could be said of Morley, let’s try and turn him into something he isn’t and constrain his natural talent. Just let players play to their strengths.

"Wasn't it Shankly who said football's a simple game complicated by idiots ... " - I'm with Shankly on this.

In the cold light of day I was hoping to see things in a different light but I can't help but come back to thinking that the system/selection has to change - unless we loan or sign a player or players to complete Evatt's jigsaw of a system before the week is out.

I think a few of us would feel more comfortable going with a back 4, if only for a security blanket. Totally understand the back 3/playing it out from the back is designed to create more space further up the pitch but...it just doesn't work for us or at least not effectively and...we risk giving it away in dangerous areas like both yesterday's goals. In reality though, our wide midfielders are forced to drop back to receive the ball on the wing and Sheehan or Tommo drop back to receive it deep anyway whenever they press (they always do against us) so where is the advantage that we are supposed to be gaining from it? We call it a back 3 but unless we go long, we have at least 6 back trying to get on the pass from back, so why not go with a back 4 and see if teams are as willing to commit four attackers to press them when we have it at the back? That would create more space further up the pitch if they're brave/daft enough to do it.

But for me, the key area for us - and where we have the biggest dilemma is in midfield. That's where the press that cramps our back 3 and stifles the outballs comes from. That's where the quick transition from defence to attack breaks down. That's where we get overrun or from where the opposition play through us in their transitions.

And in my book, Evatt is overly obsessed with trying to play "pretty football" - we have too many easy on the eye but ineffectual players who occasionally come good, but for the most part slow us down and give defences way too much time to get back and organise. OK occasionally they do something brilliant and it's great to watch - but for the most part we get found out and overelaborate in front of goal.

There is an argument to say Sheehan is our best "creator" of chances, but although he is easy on the eye, I can't remember the last time he created anything at least not in 2024. But my concern is that he's the weakest link out of possession. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to put me right on this, but from memory he isn't a patch on George for goals and assists and he doesn't put in anything like the same workload. As mentioned earlier, we need to control midfield and if we put Matete in the middle with Tommo and Demps on either side we'd be stronger defensively and I would argue all three are creative and have the energy to contribute at both ends of the pitch.

Which leaves the front 3 and currently two of them are having to drop back to get more bodies in a midfield that gets overrun too easily anyway so why not keep one (Dion or Vic) in a central area no wider than the box to try to occupy 2 CBs and have up to 5 other runners coming from the middle? Having the three athletes in the middle in Tommo, Matete and Demps  doing box to box would get the most out of them plus Collins and McAtee (who can also run) doing primarily top half should scare defences shitless because all of them can run, find space, keep good control of the ball and pick out a killer pass. All with the security of a back 4. Playing that basic 433/451/415 structure and giving the forward 6 players some freedom and fluidity is simple enough - just need to up their workrate and coach the mid 3 for someone to cover the back 4 when one has the opportunity to exploit a space eg Tutu bombing down the wing to join in.

I just think that instead of having three excellent midfield athletes constrained by an overcomplex system or left to chase shadows when only two of them are selected and therefore outnumbered (even worse when Sheehan starts) is daft and doesn't fully utilise their obvious assets.

Love to watch Sheehan, but for me he should be coming on as a sub when the hard yards have been done by the better athletes. Schon is still a maybe for me. Forino has the makings of a decent back 4 option. 

As for transfers, I still think we are still one box to box midfielder light and am gutted that the one signing we didn't make permanent is Matete.

 

Edited August 25, 20241 yr by Wanderlust

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I can’t understand why we’ve signed 2 new wingbacks but playing 3 up top, surely it makes it more difficult for the wingbacks to get down the channels in the final 3rd. Evatt defo needs to rethink if he’s going to go with Tutu & Schön.

Evatt talked in close season about knowing what needed fixing, but when he talked about it not being Plan B but Plan A.2 my enthusiasm quickly faded, suggesting he hadn't seen much of what anyone outside his office had seen and any changes would be just tinkering with shapes rather than acknowledging some of principles had to be rethought. 

All I've seen is do so far, after a load of ins and outs and more generous Board backing, is us doing most of the same things, with the same types of players, with just an unsuccessful tweak to the system. If anything, we actually look less robust and more lightweight than we did last season

The changes to approach and personnel needed to be a fair bit more radical than Evatt seems willing to admit if we are to clamber out of this tough, uncompromising and streetwise Division 

Edited August 25, 20241 yr by ianofcleveleys

12 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

He's quality and you're right he can take the ball in tight situations and maintain possession, he's got great close control and strength.  He'll become a regular starter, probably instead of Sheehan.  But certainly no replacement for Maghoma, he doesn't create and isn't a potential scorer.  We're missing Maghoma massively.

Christ, he's not started a league game yet, but as a sub at Orient folk said he changed the game. More physical, and driving at them. 

As shit as it was yesterday, I don't see how anyone could make such a judgement so early, on him.