Port Vale (A)

[Mounts Kipper]

Only positive yesterday was don’t think anyone was injured, with the pitch and their physical approach that was a possibility. 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

26 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Only positive yesterday was don’t think anyone was injured, with the pitch and their physical approach that was a possibility. 

All to no avail sadly.

Kick the cunts back, and win the game.

We've a decent sized squad to cope with injuries.

[Johnnyrotten]

4 hours ago, Ani said:

I think the fans reaction yesterday will be a real wake up call to the players. 

Not sure what a wake up call is meant to be though.  Will it make them cross the ball better, shoot better, run faster or ignore the manager's instructions on how to defend/not defend?

And presumably our under performing opponents like Bradford and Stockport will also be having their own wake up calls, negating our's 😀

We're clutching at straws if we think we'll just get better, at a faster rate than our opponents.

[Dr. Feelgood]

4 hours ago, Ani said:

I think the fans reaction yesterday will be a real wake up call to the players. 

They'd have to be in a coma not to know how shite that was.

[Mounts Kipper]

12 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Not sure what a wake up call is meant to be though.  Will it make them cross the ball better, shoot better, run faster or ignore the manager's instructions on how to defend/not defend?

And presumably our under performing opponents like Bradford and Stockport will also be having their own wake up calls, negating our's 😀

We're clutching at straws if we think we'll just get better, at a faster rate than our opponents.

A fit Duberry, Taylor, and Rodriguez would significantly help our cause…. I’d also be going 3 centre backs and 2 wing backs when the play offs arrive. 

[jeep]

2 hours ago, paulhanley said:

If you lose against the marooned bottom of the table side while chasing promotion the mood afterwards is going to be sour - players, fans, everyone associated. On top of that we know that the number 1 aim of getting up automatically is gone.

But 24-48 hours of this and then we have to draw a line. Everyone. We are going to be in a play off scrap with a clutch of sides in form as equally unconvincing as ours. We need to get the play off place secured and than it is all up for grabs. We will not take advantage of the chance that remains open to us if we dwell and allow the mood to fester.

The last twice we got promoted through the play offs there were days towards the end of the regular season that were dreadful. I recall a miserable 3-1 defeat at Oldham and 1-0 defeat at Tranmere in the year we beat Reading at Wembley (94/5). Not to mention a grim 1-1 home draw to an already relegated Burnley. Under Big Sam (2000/01, win v Preston at Cardiff) we went a good part of that Spring unable to get a win over the line in a home fixture. That included blowing one or two solid winning positions.

None of this matters if we get in the play offs and get to the Championship. And those things have less chance of happening if we all wallow and maintain a low mood. By all means be angry and sulk for a bit yet. I will join you. But it cannot go on...as a fanbase we need to look forward to the crucial seven or eight weeks ahead and do what we can to create the right atmosphere in the 90 minutes. 

Good post 👍

[Tonge moor green jacket]

5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

A fit Duberry, Taylor, and Rodriguez would significantly help our cause…. I’d also be going 3 centre backs and 2 wing backs when the play offs arrive. 

ACD is close to availability according to SS.

It would be good to have him fit and fresh for the play offs.

[Johnnyrotten]

After the previous 2 games of dropped points, I was half expecting the atmosphere to be flat and unenthusiastic yesterday.

Fair play to the fans, it was nothing of the sort.  It was positive and supportive from about 15 minutes before KO to virtually the end of the game.  There were some boos at H-T understandably, and I was expecting a toxic 2nd half if we were still losing.  But we played crap and it was still supportive for the vast majority, from what I heard.  The venom only really came out at the end.  Credit to the fans yesterday.

And the song that referenced us going to Spurs while they go to York was inspired, and made better by the fact that its guaranteed to never be sung at any Bolton game again, ever.  A true one off for yesterday's game (probably at Rotherham too but I wasn't there).

Like the new Dalby song too.

[Ani]

2 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

After the previous 2 games of dropped points, I was half expecting the atmosphere to be flat and unenthusiastic yesterday.

Fair play to the fans, it was nothing of the sort.  It was positive and supportive from about 15 minutes before KO to virtually the end of the game.  There were some boos at H-T understandably, and I was expecting a toxic 2nd half if we were still losing.  But we played crap and it was still supportive for the vast majority, from what I heard.  The venom only really came out at the end.  Credit to the fans yesterday.

And the song that referenced us going to Spurs while they go to York was inspired, and made better by the fact that its guaranteed to never be sung at any Bolton game again, ever.  A true one off for yesterday's game (probably at Rotherham too but I wasn't there).

Like the new Dalby song too.

Like the link it was copied 

 

[onefinfrandsen]

33 minutes ago, jeep said:

Good post 👍

The international break has fallen at the right time for us, 2 free weeks on the training ground for ss and his back room staff to reset, focus the minds and get the squad firing again. The fact we play teams who are in and around us in the league should help to do this.

[Stig]

10 hours ago, bwfc4ife said:

It’s a horses for courses job. Last time we had that shit run, SS started experimenting with different setups and we went to three at the back. We got a couple of draws and the winner Wigan but the football was turgid. 
 

I thought at the time yesterday we’d have benefited from three midfielders but every time in possession we just pinged it hopelessly forward and we have not got the players for that. You’ve got to get around the target man and win second balls. Erhahon and Simon’s way too deep so the ball is cleared and easy to deal with. 
 

I think we still could’ve played in and around their final third and then tossed it in the box. We seemed hopelessly lacking in ideas and it was like watching a game in the last 5 mins when you’re losing from the get go. 
 

I like Schuey and want him to do well. Sometimes his decisions baffle me, sometimes they win us a game. He’s a gambler and more often than not it comes off. Just got it wrong yesterday. That’s all. The seasons not over and I’m sure we’ll surprise a few with some results. This season has been a difficult watch for most.

Your last paragraph is absolutely spot on, especially the bit about the season being generally a hard watch: not scoring in the first half, often having to come back from behind, no definable style of play etc.

There have been some real exhilarating moments but just a solid full match performance with a professional win has been so few and far between. 

[Stig]

8 hours ago, barrycowdrill said:

And that’s exactly how it’s felt recently and definitely yesterday. Kenny has done well running the right channels as a support to Dalby. That doesn’t make him the right sided man as part of a front 3 completely isolated. And whilst I understand the principle of going to a back 4 and having an extra man in midfield as we’ve looked overrun in there the last couple of games, just play your fucking LB at LB instead of one of your CBs whose distribution is woeful. He is actually a better LB than CB but that doesn’t mean he’s decent at either.. 

the issue for me though was it was apparent they had made the decision that no football could be played on that pitch which was absolute nonsense. Not one person put their foot on it all day it was like Sunday league football where it’s one bounce and hack. Alls I felt the players were hearing was “get rid” whenever it came near them 

if that’s the case the players then need to accept it will be a battle, you have to win and pick up 2nd balls etc, but non of them did that as it’s the dirty side of the game non of them want to do 

The full back situation is the one area where I have no idea what SS is doing. Conway has been one of the major positives of the season and almost every other team in this league would take him as their left back but he's picking a centre back there because Conway is pushing up, as the instruction will be, and we're losing the ball and he's not there.

How's he supposed to be if he's supporting the attack? The emphasis should be on other players not losing the ball, and if they do the left sided CB needs to get across, which Johnston isn't capable of doing as he has no pace. 

Then on the right we're persisting with Tutu, despite him being pretty awful defensively. Maybe we have no other option with Christie looking past it but we did have Cogley as an option in the first half of the season.

Just seems like both positions are being badly managed.

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

A fit Duberry, Taylor, and Rodriguez would significantly help our cause…. I’d also be going 3 centre backs and 2 wing backs when the play offs arrive. 

Definitely, getting players fit can only help.  I don't have an opinion on the formation as we've failed with both, and succeeded with both (but I can't see us not playing with wingers if ACD is fit).  Our fortunes greatly depend on if its a game that the likes of Gale, Conway, ACD, Burstow are 7 or 8 out of 10, or 4 out of 10.  Nobody knows when these will occur, including SS.

But injuries, formations, selections and tactics aren't the remit of the players, all the players can do is play as well as they can, and I think they do that anyway, rather than needing a wake up call.

[desperado]

23 minutes ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Our fortunes greatly depend on if its a game that the likes of Gale, Conway, ACD, Burstow are 7 or 8 out of 10, or 4 out of 10.  Nobody knows when these will occur, including SS.

This is it for me.

And the one thing that is so frustrating. 

No amount of formation changing and tactical preparedness can mitigate these inconsistent occurrences from our players.

 

[Tombwfc]

3 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Not to excuse our performance, but to give PV a bit of credit, since 21st Feb they've won home games v Sunderland, Bristol City and Bolton and drawn v Huddersfield, Luton and Reading.  And lost to Bradford.

I'd argue its harder to go to Vale than Bolton currently, on current form they'd be unlucky to go down.

 

Before yesterday they'd taken 13 points at home. Next fewest is Northampton's 22. Last 10 league games, including yesterday's win, they're 20th. So much like us, if this is their purple patch it still isn't very good.

The cup results are genuinely miraculous. Maybe they excel against teams who make a load of random changes and turn up looking like strangers.

[Johnnyrotten]

51 minutes ago, Tombwfc said:

 

Before yesterday they'd taken 13 points at home. Next fewest is Northampton's 22. Last 10 league games, including yesterday's win, they're 20th. So much like us, if this is their purple patch it still isn't very good.

The cup results are genuinely miraculous. Maybe they excel against teams who make a load of random changes and turn up looking like strangers.

Of course they deserve to go down based on the whole season.  But since January, when they got rid of Darren Moore and brought in Jon Brady, they've played 19 games.  Won 8, drawn 5 and lost 7.  Not title winning form but not relegation form either.  Of course a few of those were in the cup and yes 2 of their wins were against us so don't count 😀.  But this isn't the worst team in L1 since the turn of the year.

As fans (and maybe the team?) we 100% underestimated them and thought they'd be worse than they were.

Credit to Jon Brady, they were better than us. 

[Eagle85]

10 hours ago, barrycowdrill said:

Amazing as one of the things players talk about in their interviews when joining is the size of the club, its expectations and the fan base. At this level we’re probably the pinnacle of where they would expect to reach an you would hope they do not take that for granted and really use it as a platform to show what they can do. Feels like it makes them shrink and go the other way 

I think we underestimate how much pressure there is playing for a club as big as ours in the current level, with such a demand on expectations. I think it makes it much harder for players and managers to achieve with those demands.

Look at this season so far - Our players know that too many sideways/backwards passes or small mistakes, particular against poor teams with low blocks, will invite pressure from the fans. This might explain our first half performances. I also think we are so good at late comebacks because when behind with a few minutes left you can't overthink things and have to go for it. It then becomes an automatic response rather than a thought process so thoughts of the bigger picture briefly go out the window.

If this is part of the problem I know the obvious answer is to have staff and players that can handle it, but then how much do you compromise quality, and how easy is it to spot who will be able to cope and who won't.

Edited Sunday at 21:02 by Eagle85

[Eagle85]

Also the rest of league one this year.

Huddersfield and Luton with similar expectations finding it tough. Plymouth a disaster all year and now on a great run once it seemed like any chance of promotion was off the table so pressure was gone. The current top 2 include a team nobody expected and the other, whilst a big(ish) club, still get poor crowds for an established championship team that's been top for most of the season.

Big clubs with similar expectations promoted from league 1 last few years - Sunderland needed playoffs, Sheff Weds needed playoffs, Derby needed multiple ugly/nervy 1-0 wins to scrape 2nd. Birmingham last year the obvious exception.

[Stig]

6 hours ago, Farnywhite said:

On the manager that on is interview the tactic was  to leave only one player back and it being tutu because he is our quickest  falls apart if they have a quicker player which they did 

Wouldn't it be great to leave our fastest player up front when we're defending corners to give the opposition this problem! 

[Leyther_Matt]

3 hours ago, Stig said:

The full back situation is the one area where I have no idea what SS is doing. Conway has been one of the major positives of the season and almost every other team in this league would take him as their left back but he's picking a centre back there because Conway is pushing up, as the instruction will be, and we're losing the ball and he's not there.

How's he supposed to be if he's supporting the attack? The emphasis should be on other players not losing the ball, and if they do the left sided CB needs to get across, which Johnston isn't capable of doing as he has no pace. 

Then on the right we're persisting with Tutu, despite him being pretty awful defensively. Maybe we have no other option with Christie looking past it but we did have Cogley as an option in the first half of the season.

Just seems like both positions are being badly managed.

We’ve got three centre backs who all look uncomfortable in a two. Conway and Tutu both look much more suited to playing as wing backs. Would surely make so much sense to play three at the back and play with wing backs, but it feels like SS is picking the system before the players, rather than finding a formation that suits the selection. 

[Farnywhite]

22 minutes ago, Stig said:

Wouldn't it be great to leave our fastest player up front when we're defending corners to give the opposition this problem! 

When do you see teams leaving themselves  exposed one on one at the back ?

Doing that you might as well say let’s  just have a foot race which is what happened it’s naive poor tactics snd defending to leave yourself that exposed but if I have to explain it to you 🙄

Edited Sunday at 21:59 by Farnywhite

[marple whites]

Ss banging on about that pitch all week for me got in the players head.  Yet we played on a near perfect pitch against Doncaster and still played crap.

we kept launching it long yesterday and their centre halves thought Xmas had come early.

I watched Bradford play there a couple of weeks ago c25 shots, 13 on target, bossed the game and won at a canter 2-0

lose to Plymouth and I genuinely fear we could miss out 

[Stig]

38 minutes ago, Farnywhite said:

When do you see teams leaving themselves  exposed one on one at the back ?

Doing that you might as well say let’s  just have a foot race which is what happened it’s naive poor tactics snd defending to leave yourself that exposed but if I have to explain it to you 🙄

You don't have to explain it to me - I've been grumbling about this for 2 years.

"Why don't we leave anyone up front when we're defending corners" has been a bugbear of mine because they would have to leave 2 back and free us to clear the corner better.... But we're obviously not used to a team leaving a man up from a corner and left him 1v1 which is madness

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, Stig said:

Wouldn't it be great to leave our fastest player up front when we're defending corners to give the opposition this problem! 

Then we'd have 2 less players to mark when defending a corner, and a chance of a breakaway.

So other than being less likely to concede and more likely to create a chance, what's in it for us?

[Zog1]

People talking about the centre backs not being fast enough blows me away, were Mark Beevers
and David Wheater fast? no, but they got us promoted first time. Atleast one of them went up for every corner too.

Our centre backs are good enough to get promoted from league 1, we have the 3rd best defence in the league without a proper right back and left back in a back 4. 

The problem is in the quality of our chance creation. Blasting in goals like ACD/Gale/Apter (wants to) from 30 yards looks great but how many real goal scoring opportunites were sniffed out long before they could begin to facilitate that. How many through balls, crosses and overlaps were ignored so that someone could cut inside to blast it at the first man. 

We have almost double the amounts of shots than 6th place Stevenage. This is the problem. 

 

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 23:01 by Zog1