(That long since we've had any, couldn't find the thread)

Alan Nixon: "Top Liverpool starlet Cameron Branagan will Ben allowed out on loan in Jan.

Bolton lead the race for the 20 year old midfielder"

Edited December 11, 20169 yr by Ratwhite

4 minutes ago, Whitesince63 said:

Shouldn’t we just be signing players for specific positions instead of Jacks of all trades? We need two proper full backs what’s so difficult about that? I’m sure players themselves would prefer to play a settled position rather than being swopped and changed all the time. Let’s just keep it simple.

Money will be a factor.

I suspect versatility also comes into play.

I suspect if Stephenson is signed he will be pencilled in for right back, but if Schumacher changes to wing backs he seems to be equal comfortable playing that role too. If Toal is injured or suspended he can play it seems centre back or in a 3 at the back, the right side of the three.

We have to cut our cloth accordingly, players who are comfortable to play in several positions are cheaper buying a specialist right back and also a specialist right wing back - two for the price of one, sort of thing.

I don't see why people are seeing his signing as a risk as such (yes all signings are a risk, I know that) but at 22 years old he's already had around 100 games under his belt and played 60 of them in the same division as Dalby and Kenny who we all feel will be ok in the Championship.

You could throw back at me that Richard Taylor also had around 60 games in the SP but I am on record after seeing his highlight reel that I couldn't see anything special about him for a season with us in the third tier, so unlike Wanderlust who rated Taylor more than Dalby (who ended up our Player of the Season) I got that one right and I reckon (again from just his highlight reel) that he will be just fine for us if we sign him.

We haven't even signed him yet anyway!

9 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

Money will be a factor.

I suspect versatility also comes into play.

I suspect if Stephenson is signed he will be pencilled in for right back, but if Schumacher changes to wing backs he seems to be equal comfortable playing that role too. If Toal is injured or suspended he can play it seems centre back or in a 3 at the back, the right side of the three.

We have to cut our cloth accordingly, players who are comfortable to play in several positions are cheaper buying a specialist right back and also a specialist right wing back - two for the price of one, sort of thing.

I don't see why people are seeing his signing as a risk as such (yes all signings are a risk, I know that) but at 22 years old he's already had around 100 games under his belt and played 60 of them in the same division as Dalby and Kenny who we all feel will be ok in the Championship.

You could throw back at me that Richard Taylor also had around 60 games in the SP but I am on record after seeing his highlight reel that I couldn't see anything special about him for a season with us in the third tier, so unlike Wanderlust who rated Taylor more than Dalby (who ended up our Player of the Season) I got that one right and I reckon (again from just his highlight reel) that he will be just fine for us if we sign him.

We haven't even signed him yet anyway!

Nobody has said it is a risk. I have my views on how many players i think will step up and be ok in the Championship and it is on one hand

The Jury is out on at least ten players and those include the two we have signed and Stephenson. We have no choice but take risks some will work some wont as you say it is about cutting our own cloth this season and seasons to come

20 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

Nobody has said it is a risk. I have my views on how many players i think will step up and be ok in the Championship and it is on one hand

The Jury is out on at least ten players and those include the two we have signed and Stephenson. We have no choice but take risks some will work some wont as you say it is about cutting our own cloth this season and seasons to come

Yes they have...

1 hour ago, meanderson93 said:

I agree, think its a smart signing in a business sense but a risky one in a footballing sense, I'd like to see us add another right back, someone like Christie but without the lead weights for legs ideally.

And you even agreed it was!

1 hour ago, masi 51 said:

This!!!

AND you've even said we have to take risks in the post I'm replying to of yours!

24 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

We have no choice but take risks some will work some wont as you say it is about cutting our own cloth this season and seasons to come

And then you repeat back to me what I've already posted namely that not all signings work out and we have to cut our cloth according to our needs.

So to summarise I haven't a clue what the point of your post to me was, other than to say you only think we have 5 players at most who you reckon can make it in the Championship and that they don't include the two we just signed and Stephenson if he comes.

Ok that's your opinion.

I believe you are wrong - that's my opinion.

I don't believe we will get relegated, so by definition the ones we have now (plus Stephenson) and the ones to come will be 'adequate' Championship players at the very least.

Maybe not the best but good enough to stay up - hence why our transfer dealing this season (and no doubt the next as well) won't be signing of the quality of players you might desire (maybe a few will to be fair) but that we've needed to cut our cloth to meet our needs (and within our financial abilities) meaning the likes of Watson, Davies, Stephenson, etc.

FV aim for this season is to 'compete' at this level and to me that is simply code meaning to avoid relegation.

And that is I believe exactly what we will do.

Henrik Pedersen started out as a forward. It'll be fine.

Sluffy you are one of those in life that is educated yet as thick as fog. When i and others said these young players with no Championship experience are a risk it is because until they play there we do not know if they can step up. That also applies to 90% of our established players. What me and meanderson93 are saying is Stephenson may be a risk in that he is not ready to play 40 odd games next season at right back, but over the length of his contract he will improve year on year and we may sell him on in a year or two at a tidy profit.

What are the players i desire???? I am more than happy to leave that up to SS/Fergal and yes i would take 4th bottom if offered it right now and it will be a decent season if we survive. A better keeper, two experienced full backs, a leader to push both Forino and Toal and a Established number nine are a must in my opinion, but that is all it is my opinion. That still leaves enough room to bring in your Watsons and Stephenson and hopefully ship out another three, four from the squad already here.

10 hours ago, desperado said:

I think Stephenson sees his future as a right back.

Stephenson grew up playing in midfield but has since found success at right-back or in a more advanced wing-back role.

When asked where he sees his future in terms of positions, the youngster replied: “It is right-back, or right wing-back. I’ve played under a few different managers now and they’ve always seemed to like me there.”

Scott Green, Joey O'Brien, Tutu etc. It happens a lot. Or we sign a genuine RB (Gethin Jones) and decide to play him at CB 😄

12 hours ago, meanderson93 said:

I believe Luca Stephenson might be done, I'd heard initially that Schumacher wasn't too keen but sounds like he must have changed his mind or been convinced by Fergal that its a smart move.

i'm not overly keen on the manager not having the final say on players. Convinced by fergal or just told it is happening by him?

2 minutes ago, burnden said:

i'm not overly keen on the manager not having the final say on players. Convinced by fergal or just told it is happening by him?

I don't know, all I've heard is that initially Schumacher wasn't sure that he was the way to go, but now it sounds like it's done so something must have changed in the meantime.

That's assuming the bit about Schumacher not being sure is true, I still don't really know who/where this info comes from, it's just always pretty nailed on.

15 minutes ago, burnden said:

i'm not overly keen on the manager not having the final say on players. Convinced by fergal or just told it is happening by him?

They (recruitment team, SS, Fergal) all have to agree on it for the transfer to go ahead.

13 minutes ago, meanderson93 said:

I don't know, all I've heard is that initially Schumacher wasn't sure that he was the way to go, but now it sounds like it's done so something must have changed in the meantime.

That's assuming the bit about Schumacher not being sure is true, I still don't really know who/where this info comes from, it's just always pretty nailed on.

Well let’s hope if it is true that Luca doesn’t find out because that would be a real confidence shaker if your manager isn’t 100% on you? I understood that no player would come in if either Fergal or Schuey had any doubts so hopefully that is the case and only players both agree on are signed.

14 minutes ago, jmjhb said:

They (recruitment team, SS, Fergal) all have to agree on it for the transfer to go ahead.

You would hope so but someone has to have the final say

1 minute ago, burnden said:

You would hope so but someone has to have the final say

Fergal does.

13 hours ago, Johnnyrotten said:

You're probably right we would have still fallen short with IE, but its just my opinion that Stockton and especially Nombe would have been a step up on Jerome, Vic, Etete, Dan - I'm not disputing Collins and Charles were good value.

Stockton may have had one purple patch, but what a patch it was, 23 L1 goals for a struggling team. Backed up by being a consistent scorer since 2020 (over 70 league goals - agreed he's now past his best clearly, at 32). Vic had half a good season at Burton and has scored around 30 in that period. Stockton also a better all round footballer, he leads the line with physicality rather than regularly coughing up possession and failing to control a pass.

Nombe would've been our top scorer this season and last season playing in sides worse than ours. In 22/23 he'd have been second behind Dion (15 goals vs 17) but our next best scorer had 5 so he'd still have been useful.

We'll never know but given we failed by two games then one game, it's certainly plausible we'd have gone up already if we'd signed him instead of Vic.

1 hour ago, jmjhb said:

Fergal does.

Presumably that would be in the affirmative.

I would imagine that if the manager isn't so sure, then that is a no.

1 hour ago, burnden said:

You would hope so but someone has to have the final say

1 hour ago, jmjhb said:

Fergal does.

there was an article about a year or so ago

no player signs unless SS, FH and someone who I can't remember all agree

that's not to say they all have to be initially convinced, but I guess it shows plenty thought and perspectives go into it

read in the past about various directors going off buying a player based on a manager just saying I need a left back, then bringing in totally the wrong player

6 minutes ago, Zico said:

there was an article about a year or so ago

no player signs unless SS, FH and someone who I can't remember all agree

that's not to say they all have to be initially convinced, but I guess it shows plenty thought and perspectives go into it

read in the past about various directors going off buying a player based on a manager just saying I need a left back, then bringing in totally the wrong player

Sluffy is the third person and if he’s not available it’s @little whitt

3 hours ago, masi 51 said:

Sluffy you are one of those in life that is educated yet as thick as fog. When i and others said these young players with no Championship experience are a risk it is because until they play there we do not know if they can step up. That also applies to 90% of our established players. What me and meanderson93 are saying is Stephenson may be a risk in that he is not ready to play 40 odd games next season at right back, but over the length of his contract he will improve year on year and we may sell him on in a year or two at a tidy profit.

What are the players i desire???? I am more than happy to leave that up to SS/Fergal and yes i would take 4th bottom if offered it right now and it will be a decent season if we survive. A better keeper, two experienced full backs, a leader to push both Forino and Toal and a Established number nine are a must in my opinion, but that is all it is my opinion. That still leaves enough room to bring in your Watsons and Stephenson and hopefully ship out another three, four from the squad already here.

A fair reply.

I still believe your logic is off though in that you are critiquing the future squad based entirely on YOUR opinion of players,

Unless your knowledge of the players will eventually sign, matches or surpasses that of Harkin, Schumacher and the clubs football analytical people, then your view of how they will fare is not superior than mine or anyone else's on here - even though you clearly post as though you think it is.

Christ you only need to recall how many on here viewed Dalby as worse than a donkey - and that's after seeing him play here with their own eyes - the man who ended up our Player of the Season!

You say you are "happy to leave recruitment to SS/Fergal' in one breath, then in the next state that none of their signings so far (including Stephenson if signed) is 'Championship' standard and 'we' are taking a big risk signing them - ok that's YOUR opinion based on what exactly?

Harkin and Schumacher are basing their opinions on hard facts, research, and no doubt speaking to those on their football grapevines who have trained them, managed them and played alongside them.

Harkin, Schumacher and Dickinson (Head of Recruitment) clearly believe they are Championship ready - hence why they've sign them (not much point signing them if they only find their feet in the second half of the season, as we will be relegation bound by then).

Ok even then recruitment doesn't always work our (Richard Taylor for instance) but I suggest the 'risk' is considerably less and that most players that are signed are at least of a minimum standard required for the league we find ourselves in.

To put it simply for you, I trust Harkin, Schumacher and Dickinson judgement over yours everytime.

If you believe you know better than Harkin, Schumacher and Dickinson, (and your opinion of their signings so far suggest you are) then you need to contact the club and offer your superior service to them.

13 minutes ago, Sluffy said:

A fair reply.

I still believe your logic is off though in that you are critiquing the future squad based entirely on YOUR opinion of players,

Unless your knowledge of the players will eventually sign, matches or surpasses that of Harkin, Schumacher and the clubs football analytical people, then your view of how they will fare is not superior than mine or anyone else's on here - even though you clearly post as though you think it is.

Christ you only need to recall how many on here viewed Dalby as worse than a donkey - and that's after seeing him play here with their own eyes - the man who ended up our Player of the Season!

You say you are "happy to leave recruitment to SS/Fergal' in one breath, then in the next state that none of their signings so far (including Stephenson if signed) is 'Championship' standard and 'we' are taking a big risk signing them - ok that's YOUR opinion based on what exactly?

Harkin and Schumacher are basing their opinions on hard facts, research, and no doubt speaking to those on their football grapevines who have trained them, managed them and played alongside them.

Harkin, Schumacher and Dickinson (Head of Recruitment) clearly believe they are Championship ready - hence why they've sign them (not much point signing them if they only find their feet in the second half of the season, as we will be relegation bound by then).

Ok even then recruitment doesn't always work our (Richard Taylor for instance) but I suggest the 'risk' is considerably less and that most players that are signed are at least of a minimum standard required for the league we find ourselves in.

To put it simply for you, I trust Harkin, Schumacher and Dickinson judgement over yours everytime.

If you believe you know better than Harkin, Schumacher and Dickinson, (and your opinion of their signings so far suggest you are) then you need to contact the club and offer your superior service to them.

Your getting confused; Masi is Harkin

Off you go and typically spin and put your own narrative to what i and others say on here. Are we not allowed a opinion??

Seems not according to you

I deal with facts and the facts are Bonham Reserve, Nominal fee sold Christie Released, Simons Loaned then sold, Burstow Loaned, Forss loaned

Apter Loaned ,Blackett Taylor loaned. ACD returned to club then loaned a division below [us] Rodrigues sold

Those are the players with Championship Experience not a one held a first team Championship spot down......You can add Davies who struggled to get a game in the championship with Oxford a season after playing most games for a Birmingham team that ripped league one up.

The rest of our players have never played higher than league one........So as i say we wont know until the season starts if many can make the leap up.

PS

I heard the same bullshit when i Questioned Evatt/Markham signings after the Oxford shit show.

For what its worth SS/Harkins signings are streets ahead of Evatt/Markham.......Some will work some wont, just like some players will take to the championship while others will struggle

Never one sentence when 400 are available.

3 minutes ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

Never one sentence when 400 are available.

Wouldn't like him to do a sperm count.

13 hours ago, Sluffy said:

You could throw back at me that Richard Taylor also had around 60 games in the SP but I am on record after seeing his highlight reel that I couldn't see anything special about him for a season with us in the third tier, so unlike Wanderlust who rated Taylor more than Dalby (who ended up our Player of the Season) I got that one right and I reckon (again from just his highlight reel) that he will be just fine for us if we sign him.

8 minutes ago, masi 51 said:

Off you go and typically spin and put your own narrative to what i and others say on here. Are we not allowed a opinion??

Seems not according to you

I deal with facts and the facts are Bonham Reserve, Nominal fee sold Christie Released, Simons Loaned then sold, Burstow Loaned, Forss loaned

Apter Loaned ,Blackett Taylor loaned. ACD returned to club then loaned a division below [us] Rodrigues sold

Those are the players with Championship Experience not a one held a first team Championship spot down......You can add Davies who struggled to get a game in the championship with Oxford a season after playing most games for a Birmingham team that ripped league one up.

The rest of our players have never played higher than league one........So as i say we wont know until the season starts if many can make the leap up.

PS

I heard the same bullshit when i Questioned Evatt/Markham signings after the Oxford shit show.

For what its worth SS/Harkins signings are streets ahead of Evatt/Markham.......Some will work some wont, just like some players will take to the championship while others will struggle

We've moved on from Evatt and Markham - you HAVE NOT.

Anyone can have an opinion you don't seem to like it when YOURS is challenged though.

The players you talk about above were recruited for League 1 (and we got promoted with them) it is completely irrelevant as to who Harkin. Schumacher and Dickenson are now recruiting for the Championship.

You are correct in saying "we wont know until the season starts if many can make the leap up" - 'as in you and I' but Harkin, Schumacher and Dickenson are paid handsomely to make as certain as possible that their recruitment DOES ensure the squad they put together WILL 'make the leap'.

Let me put it simply, we are just a bunch blokes chatting shit on a forum, it's Harkin/Schuy/Dickinson well paid jobs to know what they are doing, committing millions of FV money to meet the targets they are set.

Yes there is an element of risk but their job is to minimise it, you on the other hand acts as though you know better than those who are vastly more informed than yourself.

The truth is you don't - its only your opinion based what exactly, tea leaves perhaps?

Does anybody not have fluffy on ignore ? I am sure he mainly goes on wi himsel on here.

Odds on if hes ever kissed a girl ?

3 hours ago, burnden said:

i'm not overly keen on the manager not having the final say on players. Convinced by fergal or just told it is happening by him?

Just to remind you that Schumacher is the head coach; not the manager. Jimmy Dickinson is the head of recruitment, while Fergal Harkin is the Sporting Director.

All three work together and need to agree. Ultimately, though, Fergal has the final say.

This system is fairly common across football. The days of everything sitting on a single manager are long gone. I rather suspect this is what got to Evatt, in the end.