Transfer Gossip

[Cheese]

Just now, Rizlar said:

I thought it was a club statement as I had seen it somewhere but it now seems it was IE who mentioned it in another statement he made.

Probably worth looking up the source before saying you "can't get over it" then?

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

22 minutes ago, Rizlar said:

Thanks for the explanation but my it looks like a gamble knowing if we don’t go up ( which I feel atm a distinct possibility) we would end up losing players who atm have some resale value as per money ball the club keep banging on about . 

The club hasn't ever actually mentioned Moneyball once, it's mostly people just putting two and two together

Of those out of contract, the ones likely to attract anything like a significant fee - Baxter, Santos, Sheehan - likely won't want to sign a contract with us now because they probably feel they'd possibly attract a contract offer from the Championship

[Wanderlust]

6 hours ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

Really ?

Not that I want him to exit, he had a vg season with us for a guy bought as back up.

It is surprising if Portsmouth couldn't rustle-up £½m if they wanted a player. One who, in current circumstances should be seen as worth more than that.

Also read something that they'd already got a strong player in that position, so it wasn't a priority area to strengthen. Suspect the rumour started with someone saying "if he's cheap we'll take him". Nixon?

[Rizlar]

4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Probably worth looking up the source before saying you "can't get over it" then?

🥱

[desperado]

39 minutes ago, thebells said:

Few things to consider / understand on the contracts;

1. There hasn't been a club 'statement'. There was an interview by Iles, with Evatt, where he said they weren't currently negotiating or handing out contracts. 

2. The reality is that most of those players, should we 'fail' again next season, won't be getting Championship offers. 

3. The bigger issue in all this should be clear. Our club is propped up financially by external investors. They won't keep doing that. At some point, you have to cut your losses. Evatt has money to spend this summer. If we do not go up this season, you can expect a hugely different club in 2025/26. Those players will either be released or offered new contracts on reduced terms (some will accept). 'Assets' such as Collins will be sold. We'll be back to cutting our cloth, and likely with a new manager. As such, tying Santos, Baxter et al down to 3 year contracts on higher terms will be financial suicide for the club now.

In other words, we have a lot of eggs in this seasons promotion basket. 

We will be in the top 3/4 this coming season, I'm sure of that. Whether we can take the final step remains to be seen!

 

35 minutes ago, thebells said:

There's over a month until the season starts! Give them time. 

I struggle a bit with the Plan B. In Evatt's defence, he has never said there would be a Plan B this season (didn't he call it Plan 2.0 or something?). There were games last season where we did revert to Plan B (Barnsley play offs away was tactically very different). The Plan B seems a stick to beat him with when we lose, but if we win using a different plan he doesn't get credit!

2 very good posts. 👏

”Should” help those who jump to conclusions and like to create a bit of doom-mongering drama understand where we are as a club at the moment.

As you say it’s whether we can make that next step. 

[gonzo]

38 minutes ago, thebells said:

There's over a month until the season starts! Give them time. 

I struggle a bit with the Plan B. In Evatt's defence, he has never said there would be a Plan B this season (didn't he call it Plan 2.0 or something?). There were games last season where we did revert to Plan B (Barnsley play offs away was tactically very different). The Plan B seems a stick to beat him with when we lose, but if we win using a different plan he doesn't get credit!

We went direct loads last season. There was a few games we hoofed it up all game.

It just ends up being food and drink for defenders.

We just didn't do it on the biggest of biggest occasions. 

 

[thebells]

8 minutes ago, gonzo said:

We went direct loads last season. There was a few games we hoofed it up all game.

It just ends up being food and drink for defenders.

We just didn't do it on the biggest of biggest occasions. 

 

Fair points. I think it comes down to interpretation of Plan B. For most, Plan B is going direct as opposed to the way we try to play. In reality, it's more nuanced than that. I'd argue we have Plan B, C, D and more, but a lot of those are too subtle for us to 'get'. 

No doubt that Wembley didn't work! The reasons why are probably only known by Evatt and the players! Personal feeling is the 5-0 created a sense of expectation over reality (for fans as well as players) and, by the time they realised what was happening, it was too late!

[TrickyTrotter]

21 minutes ago, Zico said:

I hadn't even heard of this PSR thing until a week or so ago

I don't get it though

"here you are Chelsea, do us a favour and buy this lad off us for £19M, he's not worth that, but you know, PSR"

likewise Forest (who got done for spending beyond their means) doing Newcastle a favour by buying Elliot Anderson off them for £40M?

i don't get it

Not an expert, but basically my understanding is  any “profit” on player sales can be offset against your PSR spend/loss cap.
 

So Villa who were struggling to stay within the limit, can offset the  profit £19m - £800 k against it = £18.2m
 

New purchases don’t quite work the same as you amortise the costs over the life of the contract, so if Villa buy someone for £19m at the same time but spread the cost over the length of the contract, so say £19m divided by 5 years, it only shows as a spend of £3.8m for that year.

 

[Zico]

40 minutes ago, TrickyTrotter said:

Not an expert, but basically my understanding is  any “profit” on player sales can be offset against your PSR spend/loss cap.
 

So Villa who were struggling to stay within the limit, can offset the  profit £19m - £800 k against it = £18.2m
 

New purchases don’t quite work the same as you amortise the costs over the life of the contract, so if Villa buy someone for £19m at the same time but spread the cost over the length of the contract, so say £19m divided by 5 years, it only shows as a spend of £3.8m for that year.

 

it all just sounds like a load of bollocks to me, and something that clubs are going to get caught out with trying to bend the rules, get done for breaking them, then carry on as they were

[Steejay]

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/24430356.bolton-wanderers-wait-contracts-10-first-team-stars/
 

@Cheese - I think this is what folks are on about.

[Wanderlust]

32 minutes ago, Steejay said:

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/24430356.bolton-wanderers-wait-contracts-10-first-team-stars/
 

@Cheese - I think this is what folks are on about.

Also read an article - maybe FLW? - which named 5 Bolton players who need to piss or get off the pot this season and they made some fair points.

Williams - just not had the impact recently

Rico - form slipped second half of the season and he started floundering a bit

Geth - can't remember what they said about him but it wasn't great

Morley - unless he has a great preseason he's likely to be moved on according to them

Victor - decent all round performances but not enough goals.

My thoughts are:

Williams - agree with them and we probably need some serious competition at LWB

Rico - Also agree - his form went down, but I'm not worried as there's more competition at the back now, although Evatt is likely to stick with him unless Forino steps up big time

Geth - needs to up his game now Johnstone is back and Toal could shuffle across, plus JDC likely to hold on to RWB so he has competition.

AM - already looks superfluous to requirements and I'm struggling to see how he'll fit in now

Victor - I like his workrate but they're right - needs to add a lot more goals

[Dr. Feelgood]

5 hours ago, TrickyTrotter said:

All just a bit of joint creative accounting by Villa and Chelsea to keep within the Profit & Sustainability Rules by the 30 June deadline.

 
Nowt to do with the worth of the players. 

AKA 'fraud'.

[Dr. Feelgood]

1 hour ago, Wanderlust said:

Also read an article - maybe FLW? - which named 5 Bolton players who need to piss or get off the pot this season and they made some fair points.

Williams - just not had the impact recently

Rico - form slipped second half of the season and he started floundering a bit

Geth - can't remember what they said about him but it wasn't great

Morley AM - already looks superfluous to requirements and I'm struggling to see how he'll fit in now

Did Aaron Morley not recently leave on loan ?

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

14 minutes ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

Did Aaron Morley not recently leave on loan ?

No

[Wanderlust]

2 hours ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

Did Aaron Morley not recently leave on loan ?

We know that the club is determined not to get shafted financially and seems to be asking top dollar for the players they want to move on or loan out, but the reality is we didn't get promoted so the task of clearing out and attracting new players is all the more difficult - perhaps even more difficult than last summer when we were viewed differently.

Frustrating as a fan wanting to see more transfer action but I'm sure the club is working flat out to get it sorted before the season starts.

[Zog1]

8 hours ago, thebells said:

There's over a month until the season starts! Give them time. 

I struggle a bit with the Plan B. In Evatt's defence, he has never said there would be a Plan B this season (didn't he call it Plan 2.0 or something?). There were games last season where we did revert to Plan B (Barnsley play offs away was tactically very different). The Plan B seems a stick to beat him with when we lose, but if we win using a different plan he doesn't get credit!

Reread what i said, i wasn't even referring to Plan B in terms of tactics. I was referring to his comments made about having a set of players to sign if we had gone up vs a different set if we had stayed in League One. Ultimately we did stay in League One but as is said we don't appear to have any sort of rational plan.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

We've signed a few already. Is that irrational?

I'm sure the management team will have other targets in mind, but understandably won't go public about them.

Don't understand how it can be said there is no planning, when we're only part way through the summer, and we aren't party to the thinking within the club.

Additionally, even if we have identified targets, that doesn't mean we are guaranteed to get them.

[gonzo]

6 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

We've signed a few already. Is that irrational?

I'm sure the management team will have other targets in mind, but understandably won't go public about them.

Don't understand how it can be said there is no planning, when we're only part way through the summer, and we aren't party to the thinking within the club.

Additionally, even if we have identified targets, that doesn't mean we are guaranteed to get them.

Only been back in a week

[Johnnyrotten]

1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

We've signed a few already. Is that irrational?

I'm sure the management team will have other targets in mind, but understandably won't go public about them.

Don't understand how it can be said there is no planning, when we're only part way through the summer, and we aren't party to the thinking within the club.

Additionally, even if we have identified targets, that doesn't mean we are guaranteed to get them.

There's 8 weeks to go to sign (or sell) players, and if the season started tomorrow we'd have a team and squad more than capable of getting results in the 4 games before the international break.  There would still be bone fide first teamers that wouldn't even get on the bench.

Most of the chat on here can only be down to boredom, put the tennis on when its a day off from the Euros 😀.

[Zog1]

We've signed a backup goalkeeper, backup centre back and an attacking midfielder who's highest level was coming off the bench a few times in 2020/21 League One season.

That's it...

There's 8 weeks left and whoever signs has to learn IE's style which according to most on here takes a full preseason... we're already into that preseason.

What's irrational is doing the same thing 3 seasons in a row and expecting different results.

I dont really blame IE, he's doing the best he can. I blame SB and FV for not having the courage to get rid of him, as far as i can see it's just prolonging the pain and potential that the backers of FV get bored and were back to administation again.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

2 hours ago, gonzo said:

Only been back in a week

Others have already bought loads though. PANIC!

[Eddie]

33 minutes ago, Zog1 said:

We've signed a backup goalkeeper, backup centre back and an attacking midfielder who's highest level was coming off the bench a few times in 2020/21 League One season.

That's it...

There's 8 weeks left and whoever signs has to learn IE's style which according to most on here takes a full preseason... we're already into that preseason.

What's irrational is doing the same thing 3 seasons in a row and expecting different results.

I dont really blame IE, he's doing the best he can. I blame SB and FV for not having the courage to get rid of him, as far as i can see it's just prolonging the pain and potential that the backers of FV get bored and were back to administation again.

Some leap from only 3 signings so far to pending administration.

I’m very much in the camp of what will be will be. Last season was too fucking stressful to be worrying about it in the off season - I couldn’t tell you the name of 1 of the 3 chaps we’ve signed so far and I’m quite happy with that. I’ll switch back onto the painful world of Bolton wanderers in a few weeks time and buckle up for another rollercoaster. 

[desperado]

59 minutes ago, Zog1 said:

and were back to administation again.

Jesus Christ is life really that dull that you want to depress yourself with the worst possible scenario?

Wimbledon, Euros, a new prime minister, Th’Olympics start soon, there must be something else to take your interest away from your predictions of doom on here? 

[TroySwoosh]

don't think Forino is a back-up, but can you stop quoting zog, put him on ignore not long after he started posting his negative drivel (probably post number 2, had to give him a chance 🤪)

[thebells]

1 hour ago, Zog1 said:

We've signed a backup goalkeeper, backup centre back and an attacking midfielder who's highest level was coming off the bench a few times in 2020/21 League One season.

That's it...

There's 8 weeks left and whoever signs has to learn IE's style which according to most on here takes a full preseason... we're already into that preseason.

What's irrational is doing the same thing 3 seasons in a row and expecting different results.

I dont really blame IE, he's doing the best he can. I blame SB and FV for not having the courage to get rid of him, as far as i can see it's just prolonging the pain and potential that the backers of FV get bored and were back to administation again.

There’s a lot to unpack here

Firstly, I can assure you that the back up centre back is most definitely not here to be a back up. I think you’re assuming that to be the case because he’s on a free. He will at times play instead of Santos, and he will at times play either side of Santos. Check in with me at the end of the season but he’ll have played 30+ games

Goalkeeper - let’s see, but he’s an upgrade on Coleman. As for Lolos, I expect he’ll be an impact player off the bench. None of them are ‘back up’. 
 

Regarding the rational plan, unless you’re privy to the meetings at the club, how can you know what the plan is? Similarly, how many league one teams, in your opinion, have now done all their business and are ready to go?
 

I think you need to accept now that the ‘plan’ won’t be complete until August 31st. 
 

I can assure you there won’t be many (I doubt any) clubs in league one that have a plan as detailed as us, or a football department as well organised as us! Be patient, and enjoy the ride. It’s kinda fun when you just sit back and see what happens. 
 

… And as for administration, I’d be surprised. Sharon and FV might well leave the club at some point, but the way it is now structured makes administration very unlikely. Happy to explain why if you’d like me too. 
 

Don’t worry, be happy!