Politics

[Sweep]

19 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Who said I’m happy to see folk lose their job? I’m saying there could be government help for older warehouse staff to retrain supported by government, better wages, less need for foreign workers, more folk in better paid jobs is surely the way forward, the economy is rebalancing and things are changing.  I welcome that and I welcome better opportunities and pay and government support to make it happen. This is exactly one of the reasons why I voted to leave the EU. 

In all honesty, do you think that'll happen in the near future?

Like you, and I'd imagine everybody else, we'd all welcome better wages and more opportunities and a rebalancing of the economy, I just don't see it happening anytime soon (and by that I mean the next 10-15 years)

I hope you're right and we do invest in manufacturing, to an extent where it makes a difference to our GDP, and we don't remain so reliant on services, I'm just wondering how and when this might start to happen

With regards to the getting rid of the warehouse jobs, that's already happening anyway, as more and more are becoming automated. We're working with a robotics company here in the UK, who are currently designing a huge automated system for super warehouses (for the the likes of FEC and Amazon etc) - the idea is that these places can remove up to 70% of their "picking and packing" staff within the next 18-24 months. It's real leading edge stuff, and is fully reliant on the UK pulling it's finger out and implementing the 5G roll out properly though, that's pretty much all that's holding it back at the minute. It's actually very interesting what they're planning on doing   -  the other part of their business, which is quite scary is for remote surgery......so you could be operated on by a surgeon bases in the US, whilst you're on a table in Bolton General.....proper scary stuff, I've seen a demo of it working, and it's proper amazing - again, all reliant on our 5G network (and that's why we don't want to be letting the Chinese have any involvement with the infrastructure)

[Not in Crawley]

42 minutes ago, Sweep said:

I've hard this mentioned by a few people, such as Farage, and obviously we'd love to have a decent manufacturing base here in the UK - but surely, as we're talking about doing a deal with these CPTPP countries, with some that are well known for their low cost manufacturing bases (Vietnam, Mexico & Malaysia), then that's going to be come more and more difficult. Obviously none of us know the details, but if we do go tariff free with these, I'd reckon that might not really help our manufacturing a great deal

I know some think we might be about to enter a golden age of manufacturing for the UK, and this will all be funded by our "savings" from not being in the EU any longer - but I'm a bit more skeptical

You hav every right to be. We're not moving from a service economy any time soon.

[Not in Crawley]

38 minutes ago, DazBob said:

Has there ever been anything stopping 'local' folk going to college and learning a skill/trade?

EU breaucracy! Honestly, did you not get the memo? It was on the side of a bus or something.

[Mounts Kipper]

10 minutes ago, Not in Crawley said:

EU breaucracy! Honestly, did you not get the memo? It was on the side of a bus or something.

Was easier and cheaper to let in foreign skilled workers under EU freedom of movement it’s now time we reversed that and trained our own. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Mounts Kipper

[Mounts Kipper]

13 minutes ago, Sweep said:

In all honesty, do you think that'll happen in the near future?

Like you, and I'd imagine everybody else, we'd all welcome better wages and more opportunities and a rebalancing of the economy, I just don't see it happening anytime soon (and by that I mean the next 10-15 years)

I hope you're right and we do invest in manufacturing, to an extent where it makes a difference to our GDP, and we don't remain so reliant on services, I'm just wondering how and when this might start to happen

With regards to the getting rid of the warehouse jobs, that's already happening anyway, as more and more are becoming automated. We're working with a robotics company here in the UK, who are currently designing a huge automated system for super warehouses (for the the likes of FEC and Amazon etc) - the idea is that these places can remove up to 70% of their "picking and packing" staff within the next 18-24 months. It's real leading edge stuff, and is fully reliant on the UK pulling it's finger out and implementing the 5G roll out properly though, that's pretty much all that's holding it back at the minute. It's actually very interesting what they're planning on doing   -  the other part of their business, which is quite scary is for remote surgery......so you could be operated on by a surgeon bases in the US, whilst you're on a table in Bolton General.....proper scary stuff, I've seen a demo of it working, and it's proper amazing - again, all reliant on our 5G network (and that's why we don't want to be letting the Chinese have any involvement with the infrastructure)

Even more reason to retrain. Interesting stuff though.

[Winchester White]

19 minutes ago, Sweep said:

In all honesty, do you think that'll happen in the near future?

Like you, and I'd imagine everybody else, we'd all welcome better wages and more opportunities and a rebalancing of the economy, I just don't see it happening anytime soon (and by that I mean the next 10-15 years)

I hope you're right and we do invest in manufacturing, to an extent where it makes a difference to our GDP, and we don't remain so reliant on services, I'm just wondering how and when this might start to happen

With regards to the getting rid of the warehouse jobs, that's already happening anyway, as more and more are becoming automated. We're working with a robotics company here in the UK, who are currently designing a huge automated system for super warehouses (for the the likes of FEC and Amazon etc) - the idea is that these places can remove up to 70% of their "picking and packing" staff within the next 18-24 months. It's real leading edge stuff, and is fully reliant on the UK pulling it's finger out and implementing the 5G roll out properly though, that's pretty much all that's holding it back at the minute. It's actually very interesting what they're planning on doing   -  the other part of their business, which is quite scary is for remote surgery......so you could be operated on by a surgeon bases in the US, whilst you're on a table in Bolton General.....proper scary stuff, I've seen a demo of it working, and it's proper amazing - again, all reliant on our 5G network (and that's why we don't want to be letting the Chinese have any involvement with the infrastructure)

We have already installed 5G in a fair few warehouses.

Many are waiting for standalone 5G though which doesn't need a 4G anchor and has much less latency. That is only just starting to come online though because the specs haven't been agreed for very long by 3GPP. 

[Sweep]

9 minutes ago, Winchester White said:

We have already installed 5G in a fair few warehouses.

Many are waiting for standalone 5G though which doesn't need a 4G anchor and has much less latency. That is only just starting to come online though because the specs haven't been agreed for very long by 3GPP. 

I don't know much about it, as we have a very highly paid Comms bloke who sorts all that shit - he did mention something about "standalone" though I think when he was boring us all in the last update., and it was something to do with lag/latency, which makes sense, if you've got a surgeon in California operating on your brain, you don't want a slight lag I suppose

Anyway, as dull as he is, this company in question has, last week, signed a deal worth almost £1M for some 5G IoT board thing that we'll be supplying for roll out later this year, which is pretty positive.

We'll hopefully soon be at a stage where very little "unskilled" workers are required - let's get everything automated as soon as we can I say

[Sweep]

14 hours ago, Youri McAnespie said:

 

They do, or did, those Walsh jobbies, and everyone slated them.

 

The shittest pumps ever, I bought a pair once......I think on the recommendation of @Casino they were so flat and uncomfortable, I wore them once and then chucked them in the charity bin

[Not in Crawley]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Was easier and cheaper to let in foreign skilled workers under EU freedom of movement it’s now time we reversed that and trained our own. 

You really believe this don't you? I thought you were on a 4 year wheeze.

[Spider]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Even more reason to retrain. Interesting stuff though.

You keep conveniently glossing over who organises and pays for all this training, and pays people’s rent and food bills in the meantime.

My company will not be paying for it, I assume yours won’t.

who pays and how quickly? Bear in mind jobs are being lost today/ this week. How soon will this all turn around and will we have a generation of people living on the street?

[Nowack]

I’m a bit confused. Are we saying that people who have been on minimum wage jobs have been waiting for us to leave the EU, get the sack then retrain to become well paid skilled tradesman?

[Not in Crawley]

1 minute ago, Spider said:

You keep conveniently glossing over who organises and pays for all this training, and pays people’s rent and food bills in the meantime.

My company will not be paying for it, I assume yours won’t.

who pays and how quickly? Bear in mind jobs are being lost today/ this week. How soon will this all turn around and will we have a generation of people living on the street?

Indeed, even before Brexit my old employer spent lots on getting a visa for Turkish workers who had skills they wanted, not spending on training those who don't yet have them. Best digital media buyer I ever worked with was Turkish, he ran the account for Historic Royal Palaces. Same with Australians - overrun with the buggers in PR and Promotional Activation. My Spanish mate has just done his citizens test. We're having a welcome (back) to the UK party after lockdown, along with his Argentinian boyfriend, and he was the only one of my lot who escaped the redudancy cull last summer as he held all the music festival accounts. Funnily enough all of the above have degrees or further degrees, and for an international company have the added benefit of being bi or tri lingual unlike us brits.

 

 

[Not in Crawley]

3 minutes ago, Nowack said:

I’m a bit confused. Are we saying that people who have been on minimum wage jobs have been waiting for us to leave the EU, get the sack then retrain to become well paid skilled tradesman?

Yep. Its the Poles who have been holding them back.

[Not in Crawley]

Oh and the lack of training money as its been spent on French farmers or some such.

[Sweep]

2 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

Was easier and cheaper to let in foreign skilled workers under EU freedom of movement 

Was a lot of this not driven by the consumer wanting to pay less though? - if everybody had said "fuck off you skilled foreigner, I want a skilled British tradesman doing the job" then we'd never have had a problem with Eastern Europeans undercutting prices (if that was really much of a thing, I honestly don't know)  -  until we change the mindset of vast swathes of the UK population, then they'll always be looking to pay the lowest price, no matter where it comes from or the overall quality of it

 

[Spider]

The trade deal with the far eastern cartel is - one assumes - so we have free trade access to their bountiful sweatshops and dirt-cheap imports?

How does opening loads of manufacturing plants here, with it's £20 an hour re-trained baristas balance out with that?

I work in manufacturing, and speak to other manufacturers frequently (in fact, Brexit has brought us all closer together than anything). Not a single one of them has any appetite for long-winded and expensive large-scale apprenticeship schemes. A not-so-coincidental drop in material availability plus massive price increases from Turkey (where all the radiators are made) means that training etc is down the bottom of the list and about as likely to happen as us moving the entire factory 30 feet to the left so the view improves.

It's all so wishy-washy, this idea of WE need to upscale training/use British lads.

The world changed a long time ago.

[Not in Crawley]

7 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Was a lot of this not driven by the consumer wanting to pay less though? - if everybody had said "fuck off you skilled foreigner, I want a skilled British tradesman doing the job" then we'd never have had a problem with Eastern Europeans undercutting prices (if that was really much of a thing, I honestly don't know)  -  until we change the mindset of vast swathes of the UK population, then they'll always be looking to pay the lowest price, no matter where it comes from or the overall quality of it

 

Its called market forces and all the Buy British car stickers in the world aren't going to change that. Cheapest for the best quality.

Anyway, I've had a work boost today, the company I set up in September has just won its first proper contract, and its not reliant on theatre restarting - nice 2 year one as well. Another couple of these and I might be able to actually makae a go of this.

Its a British company in case anyone cares...

Off for a bottle of something fizzy.

 

 

 

[Sweep]

Good Stuff NiC - treat yourself to a new pair of winklepickers and a natty cravat to celebrate 🙂

[Not in Crawley]

27 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Good Stuff NiC - treat yourself to a new pair of winklepickers and a natty cravat to celebrate 🙂

Taking the cat out for a night on the town.

[Sweep]

1 minute ago, Not in Crawley said:

Taking the cat out for a night on the town.

Cat in a Cravat

 Could be a new Dr Seuss book, and/or a West End Show

[Not in Crawley]

3 minutes ago, Sweep said:

Cat in a Cravat

 Could be a new Dr Seuss book, and/or a West End Show

There's been worse...

My personal favourite was a musical starring Darren Day of all people that was called Bumblescratch about a rat in the great fire of London. Honest to god, the shit some people will write about.

We're almost ready to go out.....

[Mounts Kipper]

1 hour ago, Spider said:

The trade deal with the far eastern cartel is - one assumes - so we have free trade access to their bountiful sweatshops and dirt-cheap imports?

How does opening loads of manufacturing plants here, with it's £20 an hour re-trained baristas balance out with that?

I work in manufacturing, and speak to other manufacturers frequently (in fact, Brexit has brought us all closer together than anything). Not a single one of them has any appetite for long-winded and expensive large-scale apprenticeship schemes. A not-so-coincidental drop in material availability plus massive price increases from Turkey (where all the radiators are made) means that training etc is down the bottom of the list and about as likely to happen as us moving the entire factory 30 feet to the left so the view improves.

It's all so wishy-washy, this idea of WE need to upscale training/use British lads.

The world changed a long time ago.

You talk some shite, what’s changed that we can’t spend government money to train folk who want to improve their lot. 

[Spider]

1 minute ago, Mounts Kipper said:

You talk some shite, what’s changed that we can’t spend government money to train folk who want to improve their lot. 

When does it start?

They’ve had - as you like to tell me - many many months and years to prepare for this. Leaving isn’t a surprise to anyone.

We shouldn’t be sitting on our hands at this point.

[Boby Brno]

It’s National Apprenticeship Week. I’m glad that apprenticeships are back in favour. As someone who went down this route after leaving school, it’s been sad to see the decline over the years.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

4 hours ago, Sweep said:

Was a lot of this not driven by the consumer wanting to pay less though? - if everybody had said "fuck off you skilled foreigner, I want a skilled British tradesman doing the job" then we'd never have had a problem with Eastern Europeans undercutting prices (if that was really much of a thing, I honestly don't know)  -  until we change the mindset of vast swathes of the UK population, then they'll always be looking to pay the lowest price, no matter where it comes from or the overall quality of it

 

Chicken and egg. As you know, companies will always look for a competitive edge. Reducing costs and maximising profits. 

Of course people look to pay less, but in part that is driven by earnings.

There was a concern when minimum wage was introduced that jobs might be lost etc but it didn't really materialise.

If the pandemic has taught us anything, it is that relying on imports for so much manufacturing can cause problems. 

I don't agree that its a case of retraining warehouse staff etc- these people will still be needed, however a shift is needed in the availability of young people to be willing to enter stem subjects, both academically and vocationally.