Ani Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Moon boy said: The current shambles is due to the Brexit negotiations being run by a Remain PM, Remain majority in Parliament and a Remain Civil Service, this is not a democratic representation of the people who voted in the Referendum, you may be happy with that. What would be your solution to the current situation? The referendum has no place in our democratic process, by which I mean it has no jurisdiction over parliament any more than a phone in vote on X factor selects the 'best' singer. (This is a fact and not disputed by either side). MPs are however being driven by the 'will of the people' as highlighted by the referendum. I voted Remain as thought leaving would be an absolute shit storm and disaster The shambles is because we had a multiple choice question with only Yes/No options. All this is about the democratic process and the will if the majority is total and utter bullshit, we are being driven by the needs and beliefs of a staggeringly small number of self interested individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: You never seen yes minister? For avoidance of doubt, you predicted all of this right, and its going exactly how you predicted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickbrown Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: You never seen yes minister? Ah that well known documentary. Up there with the classic WWII documentaries, It Ain’t Half Hot Mum and Dad’s Army Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: For avoidance of doubt, you predicted all of this right, and its going exactly how you predicted? I predicted the end result not the journey. And I see I’m still on course to be proven correct, despite the remainers, politicians, civil service and the EU fraternizing with anyone in the UK to stop it. Edited January 10, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrelli Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, mickbrown said: Ah that well known documentary. Up there with the classic WWII documentaries, It Ain’t Half Hot Mum and Dad’s Army That's unfair. Mounts also gets his British history information from the four series of Blackadder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, mickbrown said: Ah that well known documentary. Up there with the classic WWII documentaries, It Ain’t Half Hot Mum and Dad’s Army When you have a remain PM and a remain head civil servant in Olly Robins in charge of the job, it’s no suprise we’ve not yet finalized a suitable Withdrawl agreement. The sceptic in me thinks they are trying for a bad deal to get to no deal facilitating a second referendum with the hope of remaining. Edited January 10, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules_darby Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 32 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: You never seen yes minister? Ha ha fucking hell Mounts Thats my favourite post of 2019 so far Looking forward to learning how football clubs run tonight so I can work out the Ken situation by watching a re-run of Dream Team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, jules_darby said: Ha ha fucking hell Mounts Thats my favourite post of 2019 so far Looking forward to learning how football clubs run tonight so I can work out the Ken situation by watching a re-run of Dream Team That’s one in the net. Shame it’s not mental Mickey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules_darby Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: That’s one in the net. Shame it’s not mental Mickey. If you’re claiming that as fishing as it was ridiculous you’re gonna have to do the same for 75% of your other posts on this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, jules_darby said: If you’re claiming that as fishing as it was ridiculous you’re gonna have to do the same for 75% of your other posts on this thread It’s a big fish I’ve caught. Made my day it has. Must’ve been wrong bait for Mickey. Edited January 10, 2019 by Mounts Kipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrelli Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Bullshit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, Farrelli said: Bullshit Is that another nibble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrelli Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Yep. Congrats. Did you start right after the referendum with this "I think I'll take on the persona of Jacob Rees Mogg for a laugh" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, Farrelli said: Yep. Congrats. Did you start right after the referendum with this "I think I'll take on the persona of Jacob Rees Mogg for a laugh" ? Not a little nibble them. In the net. You’re in good company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules_darby Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 18 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: It’s a big fish I’ve caught. Made my day it has. Must’ve been wrong bait for Mickey. Tries to reverse engineer a fishing claim and then thinks he’s Yoda Funny one Mounts is. Entertains me it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mounts Kipper Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, jules_darby said: Tries to reverse engineer a fishing claim and then thinks he’s Yoda Funny one Mounts is. Entertains me it does. Good I’m pleased. We’re all happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 10, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted January 10, 2019 14 hours ago, Jol_BWFC said: I agree to an extent, although I think the majority (not all) of the MPs accept the result of the referendum. Most just want a Brexit that works (as well as it can do) for the UK, rather than having a “no deal” Brexit or a “bad deal” Brexit. I think we need to remember that the vote was not for any particular form of Brexit (hard, soft, a March 2019 departure etc.) nor how the issues raised by Brexit (Northern Ireland, single market, movement of people) would be dealt with. That was not on the ballot paper. It was simply a vote to leave the EU. The MPs in Parliament are looking to have greater control on how it is implemented, rather than leaving it to just the Prime Minister (well, her “Plan B”, given that “Plan A” is likely to fail). I think that’s fair enough, isn’t it? Let the publicly elected House of Commons be involved in the Brexit process if the Prime Minister can’t get the right deal for this country. Nice to have reasoned response, cheers. Some more ardent leavers have said, that as the vote offered no deals as an option then it was for a clean break-no deal effectively. I can see where they're coming from, but I disagree with that. It indeed becomes incumbent upon the government at the time to undertake the work necessary to leave in the best possible way. Therein is the problem; apparently they didn't take up labour's offer to work with them on it (don't know if true, or why) and have gone it alone. I've said previously, that I think TM misjudged it with her approach, and has lost the backing of a number of leavers within her party. Had they been kept onboard she may well have got the numbers. However, maybe in trying to placate remain voting MPs, it's now backfired. It seems to have emboldened them to utilise the situation of her deal being unlikely to get through, to ultimately get brexit off the agenda. This isn't parliament working together to get the best brexit deal. And that's what's so disappointing- I agree with you that this would have been the best way forward So many splinters, that I can't see how this would be achieved. Sooner or later, they have to compromise to achieve this and they're not doing. Ultimately then, it's back to the government to get it done. The deal on the table may not be perfect, however I'm not sure it's a "bad deal" - it's just a label that folk who want something different throw at it. Some will say a Canada type deal is bad, other want no deal etc. What I would say is that I think those involved with negotiations have had a ridiculously difficult job, to do something never done before and mistakes were inevitable. Unfortunately, parliament seems too keen to keep kicking out and pulling itself apart in myriad ways rather than agreeing that they have to compromise around something. Hugely frustrating, unedifying and unhealthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon boy Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Ani said: The referendum has no place in our democratic process, by which I mean it has no jurisdiction over parliament any more than a phone in vote on X factor selects the 'best' singer. (This is a fact and not disputed by either side). MPs are however being driven by the 'will of the people' as highlighted by the referendum. I voted Remain as thought leaving would be an absolute shit storm and disaster The shambles is because we had a multiple choice question with only Yes/No options. All this is about the democratic process and the will if the majority is total and utter bullshit, we are being driven by the needs and beliefs of a staggeringly small number of self interested individuals. “We are being driven by the needs and beliefs of a staggeringly small number of self interested individuals” who do you mean? The Remain Elite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter MickyD Posted January 10, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said: It’s a big fish I’ve caught. Made my day it has. Must’ve been wrong bait for Mickey. I'm not hungry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 29 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Nice to have reasoned response, cheers. Some more ardent leavers have said, that as the vote offered no deals as an option then it was for a clean break-no deal effectively. I can see where they're coming from, but I disagree with that. It indeed becomes incumbent upon the government at the time to undertake the work necessary to leave in the best possible way. Therein is the problem; apparently they didn't take up labour's offer to work with them on it (don't know if true, or why) and have gone it alone. I've said previously, that I think TM misjudged it with her approach, and has lost the backing of a number of leavers within her party. Had they been kept onboard she may well have got the numbers. However, maybe in trying to placate remain voting MPs, it's now backfired. It seems to have emboldened them to utilise the situation of her deal being unlikely to get through, to ultimately get brexit off the agenda. This isn't parliament working together to get the best brexit deal. And that's what's so disappointing- I agree with you that this would have been the best way forward So many splinters, that I can't see how this would be achieved. Sooner or later, they have to compromise to achieve this and they're not doing. Ultimately then, it's back to the government to get it done. The deal on the table may not be perfect, however I'm not sure it's a "bad deal" - it's just a label that folk who want something different throw at it. Some will say a Canada type deal is bad, other want no deal etc. What I would say is that I think those involved with negotiations have had a ridiculously difficult job, to do something never done before and mistakes were inevitable. Unfortunately, parliament seems too keen to keep kicking out and pulling itself apart in myriad ways rather than agreeing that they have to compromise around something. Hugely frustrating, unedifying and unhealthy. The problem is quite simple... If you'e a brexiteer there is no good deal. If you're a remainer there is no good deal. Instead of May picking a side she's tried to just annoy everyone as much as possible. I see now they are trying to work with backbench Labour MPs on an alternative to the plan or even revising the plan to suit them...if May and her government had an ounce of worth they'd have done that immediately following her disastrous snap election. But no. The bottom line here is that no deal possible comes close to the deal we have now. And no deal possible comes close to the "lets just tell the EU to fuck themselves" that Brexiteers want. Smart people who understood the EU knew this and said so pre-referendum. But were just labelled "remain elite, project fear". The lunatics are now running the asylum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon boy Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: The problem is quite simple... If you'e a brexiteer there is no good deal. If you're a remainer there is no good deal. Instead of May picking a side she's tried to just annoy everyone as much as possible. I see now they are trying to work with backbench Labour MPs on an alternative to the plan or even revising the plan to suit them...if May and her government had an ounce of worth they'd have done that immediately following her disastrous snap election. But no. The bottom line here is that no deal possible comes close to the deal we have now. And no deal possible comes close to the "lets just tell the EU to fuck themselves" that Brexiteers want. Smart people who understood the EU knew this and said so pre-referendum. But were just labelled "remain elite, project fear". The lunatics are now running the asylum. I’m a brexiteer and a good deal for me would be a Canada+++ WTO arrangement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Moon boy said: I’m a brexiteer and a good deal for me would be a Canada+++ WTO arrangement Fine. But then you have to manage the NI border. And as much as you might want to pretend you don't, you'd have to in order to a) pass any bill through parliament and b) actually secure said deal with the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon boy Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The NI problem is a red herring, it doesn’t exist and never has, and till the threat is removed by the EU, March 29th will arrive with both sides in a ‘no deal’ situation, and both sides don’t want that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyldesley_white Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Moon boy said: The NI problem is a red herring, it doesn’t exist and never has, and till the threat is removed by the EU, March 29th will arrive with both sides in a ‘no deal’ situation, and both sides don’t want that So the Good Friday Agreement is also a red herring is it ? Edited January 10, 2019 by tyldesley_white Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Moon boy said: The NI problem is a red herring, it doesn’t exist and never has, and till the threat is removed by the EU, March 29th will arrive with both sides in a ‘no deal’ situation, and both sides don’t want that But that isn't true. We are bound by the Good Friday Agreement. And Ireland being one of the 26 EU members are as well. Just because something doesn't suit you, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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