Tonge moor green jacket Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 21 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: No matter how crap the deal was, there was a deal on the table to leave the EU and Johnson voted with Corbyn, twice, to reject it! He played the game just as lots of others did so they are all to blame for this mess. I believe there is not a majority in the electorate for No Deal so quite rightly parliamentarians are doing what they believe is in the best interests of the country. You may not agree with that so the next GE will be the country's opportunity to give their verdict on that A simple question: do you believe Johnson wants to get an improved deal? Personally, I do. He ruled out deals with Nigel Garage to that effect. Should today's events succeed, it achieves nothing, other than more delays. Yes plenty of MPs voted against the deal first time round, but many did in the end in the interests of just getting it done. That's gone now, the government has tried dealing with other parties, and to no avail. Time now to let the pm do what he can. That is in the best interests of everyone. If he doesn't succeed then fine, criticise him then. Ken Anderson dug his heels in because he knew certain folk would back down to save our club. The EU can adopt a similar approach as long as they know parliament are tying his hands. Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 11 minutes ago, frank_spencer said: One thing I never see mentioned is if MPs have looked at the evidence of a No Deal and think it will be a terrible idea surely if they went along with it they'd be negligent in their duties to do what's best for their electorate? If the leavers want to get the numbers behind their ideas produce evidence to support their cause and present it to the MPs. If all the evidence showed how great a No Deal would be then there wouldn't be this brouhaha. I'm still of the opinion that Brexit is a terrible idea and is getting worse as the weeks/months/years go by. But as things stand it's the wish of the electorate and the leavers have had 3yrs to come up with a viable plan and have failed time and time again. It's the government's job to come up with a plan. The remain supporting leadership ignored the wish and offers from leave MPs for input. The rest is history. We now have a leave based set up and they have had discussions, and got an interesting response from Merkel. A viable plan may well materialise, if they are allowed to go for it. Quote
Farrelli Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 39 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: No matter how crap the deal was, there was a deal on the table to leave the EU and Johnson voted with Corbyn, twice, to reject it! Correct. The hypocritical twat. He is now proposing deselecting loyal Tory MPs who have backed the party more often than he has. Quote
Salford Trotter Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 13 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: A simple question: do you believe Johnson wants to get an improved deal? Personally, I do. He ruled out deals with Nigel Garage to that effect. Should today's events succeed, it achieves nothing, other than more delays. Yes plenty of MPs voted against the deal first time round, but many did in the end in the interests of just getting it done. That's gone now, the government has tried dealing with other parties, and to no avail. Time now to let the pm do what he can. That is in the best interests of everyone. If he doesn't succeed then fine, criticise him then. Ken Anderson dug his heels in because he knew certain folk would back down to save our club. The EU can adopt a similar approach as long as they know parliament are tying his hands. I think he is playing a game quite honestly. He speaks about making progress with the EU yet they have had no contact re the backstop so more lies from Johnson. The ERG are supporting him because they want him to just leave without a deal and he knows TBP party will tear the Torys apart at the next election if we don't leave by 31st October. I want this over like the rest of us but you can't pick n choose what part of parliamentary sovereignty you protect or ignore. Quote
Farrelli Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: I think he is playing a game quite honestly. He speaks about making progress with the EU yet they have had no contact re the backstop so more lies from Johnson. The ERG are supporting him because they want him to just leave without a deal and he knows TBP party will tear the Torys apart at the next election if we don't leave by 31st October. I want this over like the rest of us but you can't pick n choose what part of parliamentary sovereignty you protect or ignore. Totally agree. Quote
Salford Trotter Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 21 minutes ago, boltondiver said: But he continues to ask for one..... I saw an interview with Tony Lloyd on Canadian TV last night and he made it quite clear, prevent No Deal and then have an election after 31st October. Johnson needs 435 MPs to agree to one and the maths are not there at the moment as Johnson will just delay an election until after we've left. He should've known this was coming. Quote
Spider Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 Nigel Garage is my new favourite thing Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 54 minutes ago, Salford Trotter said: I think he is playing a game quite honestly. He speaks about making progress with the EU yet they have had no contact re the backstop so more lies from Johnson. The ERG are supporting him because they want him to just leave without a deal and he knows TBP party will tear the Torys apart at the next election if we don't leave by 31st October. I want this over like the rest of us but you can't pick n choose what part of parliamentary sovereignty you protect or ignore. Parliamentarians have wrecked their position, this talk of sovereignty is bollocks. Standing on one fundamental position then acting against it has undone the respect of people. When the leader of the lib Dems says she wouldn't recognize another leave vote then they deserve all they get, underhand tactics galore. So if you want to talk about respecting all of parliamentary sovereignty, then let's start with ardent remainers abusing their position. Tell them to resign as an MP, stand under their own beliefs. Then we can have a go at Boris et al. Not that he'll have to adopt such an approach, nor would be have even been in post. Quote
jmjhb Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 Philip Lee crosses the floor to the Lib Dems, there goes Boris's majority Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 1 minute ago, jmjhb said: Philip Lee crosses the floor to the Lib Dems, there goes Boris's majority Makes no difference who he sits with. If he wasn't voting with his government before... Quote
Salford Trotter Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Parliamentarians have wrecked their position, this talk of sovereignty is bollocks. Standing on one fundamental position then acting against it has undone the respect of people. When the leader of the lib Dems says she wouldn't recognize another leave vote then they deserve all they get, underhand tactics galore. So if you want to talk about respecting all of parliamentary sovereignty, then let's start with ardent remainers abusing their position. Tell them to resign as an MP, stand under their own beliefs. Then we can have a go at Boris et al. Not that he'll have to adopt such an approach, nor would be have even been in post. It's not bollocks, it's fundamental to the way our democracy works and Leavers campaigned for it to be sacrosanct so let's respect it. To ignore or protect it when it suits is playing a very dangerous game. To run MPs out of the party in the same way Labour are doing just because they have a different perspective to the leader is bordering on a dictatorship. That's the sort of stuff you'd expect in Russia or China not in a modern Western democracy Edited September 3, 2019 by Salford Trotter Quote
Casino Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: Time now to let the pm do what he can. That is in the best interests of everyone. a lot of us disagree Quote
Moon boy Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Farrelli said: Correct. The hypocritical twat. He is now proposing deselecting loyal Tory MPs who have backed the party more often than he has. ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’ Quote
Ani Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) If we leave with no deal what happens with 1 Irish border 2 UK citizens rights in other EU countries 3 testing of pharmaceuticals Edited September 3, 2019 by Ani Quote
Casino Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ani said: If we leave with no deal what happens with 1 Irish border technology, you nob Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 1. Boris just addressed the first one. Essentially use of technology. 2. Dunno. Heard previously that they would intend coming to agreement separately on such things. 3. Why wouldn't things carry on as now wrt testing Quote
Moon boy Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ani said: If we leave with no deal what happens with 1 Irish border 2 UK citizens rights in other EU countries 3 testing of pharmaceuticals Answers 1- Nothing 2-Reciprocal Agreement 3- Reciprocal Agreement Quote
Casino Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said: 1. Boris just addressed the first one. Essentially use of technology. aye, whatever why hasnt he been over to the eu and made his case Quote
Salford Trotter Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Moon boy said: Answers 1- Nothing 2-Reciprocal Agreement 3- Reciprocal Agreement so when Johnson said he was making progress with the EU what did he mean, as the EU know nothing about it? It's one lie after another! We truly have Trump jnr running the country Edited September 3, 2019 by Salford Trotter Quote
Mounts Kipper Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 37 minutes ago, Casino said: a lot of us disagree About 48% 😂 Quote
Guest Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 24 minutes ago, Casino said: aye, whatever why hasnt he been over to the eu and made his case Why should he? Quote
Ani Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 26 minutes ago, Moon boy said: Answers 1- Nothing 2-Reciprocal Agreement 3- Reciprocal Agreement 2 and 3 so you are saying we need a deal. Quote
Sweep Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 4 hours ago, Moon boy said: Don’t vote Tory then out of interest, are you still 100% confident that we're leaving on 31st October? Quote
Salford Trotter Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, boltondiver said: Why should he? He had no intention of going back with a new proposal, just another one of his whopping lies Quote
Moon boy Posted September 3, 2019 Posted September 3, 2019 12 minutes ago, Sweep said: out of interest, are you still 100% confident that we're leaving on 31st October? Out of interest do you still believe in Democracy? Quote
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