Guest Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Howardroark said: No we don’t, we may in a few days though. Although to be precise Whites Ventures will own it (well 70% of it) and simply allow BWFC to play there, as tenants. Do we own the land? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Just now, boltondiver said: Do we own the land? Yes and no. Some was sold in ‘99 and some is Orbit’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Casino Posted March 11, 2019 Moderators Share Posted March 11, 2019 So, I've been busy today and there's been a lot going on Did somebody say basran has to pay moonshift and then buy the club And his worry being that Anderson then wouldn't sell Or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Mounts Kipper said: If you want to buy a football club with a premier league infrastructure including, hotel, car parks, office space, exhibition rooms, a number of lounges and suites and exec boxes, a top quality training centre, what do you think the going rate would be? I’d guess north of 30 million and there’s not many available. Possibly, probably, I don't know but what happens once you've bought it? It takes money to run the club and at the moment it looks as though that will cost an additional few million just to get to the end of the season. Next season if we stay up we might breakeven on running costs but if we get relegated we lose the premium of around £7 million or so being in the Championship compared to being in the third tier - so probably a further few million in costs. If the plan is to go for the Premier League then that's going to involve major investment in transfer and wages (so additional costs) with no end guarantee of being successful in getting promotion to there within the FFP timeframe. If you go for developing youth, then I guess the pressure is not on to get promoted back to the level above - nor for significant player wages - so perhaps we become modelled like Crewe has been, rooted in the lower league selling off all your youth players that have developed into first team players, just to stay solvent. Obviously if you've bought the stadium, offices, car parks, training ground etc, free from debt, then you could always sell them off (the ACV on the stadium only delays things, it doesn't stop it happening if that is the intent) but selling off the family silver doesn't help much long term. There must be a plan to get a return on the money invested both to buy the club and keep it ticking over, otherwise why bother, you may as well keep your money in the bank as at least you still keep in whilst having some return on it in terms of interest. I just constantly fail to see what the financial plan is, as there must be one? As whoever buys us are certainly not doing it just out of goodness from their heart are they? Edited March 11, 2019 by Sluffy spelling errors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Casino said: So, I've been busy today and there's been a lot going on Did somebody say basran has to pay moonshift and then buy the club And his worry being that Anderson then wouldn't sell Or something like that? Moonshift have to discharge the lien on the shares before Ken can sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, Howardroark said: Yes and no. Some was sold in ‘99 and some is Orbit’s. Wonder when the council sold up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 18 minutes ago, Howardroark said: No we don’t, we may in a few days though. Although to be precise Whites Ventures will own it (well 70% of it) and simply allow BWFC to play there, as tenants. Can you elaborate please? Wouldn't Whites Ventures own the club too or are you implying they will be buying the land and property and some other minor investor will separately own the football club in return for the other 30% of funding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjhb Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 53 minutes ago, whiteboy said: Will Dagny Taggart be coming in to sort the matchday trains out? We should get Hank Rearden in for some steel in the midfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sluffy said: Possibly, probably, I don't know but what happens once you've bought it? It takes money to run the club and at the moment it looks as though that will cost an additional few million just to get to the end of the season. Next season if we stay up we might breakeven on running costs but if we get relegated we lose the premium of around £7 million or so being in the Championship compared to being in the third tier - so probably a further few million in costs. If the plan is to go for the Premier League then that's going to involve major investment in transfer and wages (so additional costs) with no end guarantee of being successful in getting promotion to there within the FFP timeframe. If you go for developing youth, then I guess the pressure is not on to get promoted back to the level above - nor for significant player wages - so perhaps we become modelled like Crewe has been, rooted in the lower league selling off all your youth players that have developed into first team players, just to stay solvent. Obviously if you've bought the stadium, offices, car parks, training ground etc, free from debt, then you could always sell them off (the ACV on the stadium only delays things, it doesn't stop it happening if that is the intent) but long term selling off the family silver doesn't help much long term. There must be a plan to get a return on the money invested both to buy the club and keep it ticking over, otherwise why bother, you may as well keep your money in the bank as at least you still keep in whilst having some return on it in terms of interest. I just constantly fail to see what the financial plan is, as there must be one? As whoever buys us are certainly not doing it just out of goodness from their heart are they? They must think that the resale value of the assets in 3-5-10 years is within an acceptable range of what they intend to spend over that time period. If the Prem occurs in the time then kerching, if not, sell up or sell the assets individually. Also worth noting the tax breaks of an investment of this nature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Sluffy said: Can you elaborate please? Wouldn't Whites Ventures own the club too or are you implying they will be buying the land and property and some other minor investor will separately own the football club in return for the other 30% of funding? The shares of Burnden Leisure/BWAFC will be owned by Whites Ventures. The club and the owner are therefore separate legal entities with separate accounting and reporting requirements. Whites Ventures own everything but the actual club remains a separate legal entity and as such is a tenant of Whites Ventures. The 70% relates simply to parts of the stadium that haven’t been sold (North Stand Offices) South Stand etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 59 minutes ago, whiteboy said: Will Dagny Taggart be coming in to sort the matchday trains out? I won’t have the name ‘Taggart’ taken in vain, not in this house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, boltondiver said: Wonder when the council sold up? Council didn’t own it. Was part EU Grant part private investment. Council are the reason for the hotel; Burnden sale should’ve paid for the stadium to be built but they changed the rules around ‘out of town shopping centres’ meaning the hotel had to be added to draw in funds from outside investors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Howardroark said: The shares of Burnden Leisure/BWAFC will be owned by Whites Ventures. The club and the owner are therefore separate legal entities with separate accounting and reporting requirements. Whites Ventures own everything but the actual club remains a separate legal entity and as such is a tenant of Whites Ventures. The 70% relates simply to parts of the stadium that haven’t been sold (North Stand Offices) South Stand etc. Ah sorry I misunderstood your original post. I am aware of the need for separation, and that is why at present Burnden Leisure is a separate entity to Bolton Wanderers Football and Athletics Club. Thank you for clarification though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, Howardroark said: Council didn’t own it. Was part EU Grant part private investment. Council are the reason for the hotel; Burnden sale should’ve paid for the stadium to be built but they changed the rules around ‘out of town shopping centres’ meaning the hotel had to be added to draw in funds from outside investors. Strange I mean it’s a while ago, but when I was asked to value the stadium, I’m sure the land upon which it was built was owned by the council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howardroark Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, boltondiver said: Strange I mean it’s a while ago, but when I was asked to value the stadium, I’m sure the land upon which it was built was owned by the council. Sorry I was referring to the stadium/surrounding land as is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwfcfan5 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Howard was saying the deal was off a few hours ago. Not long before that saying that Basran didn’t have even the money necesssry for the initial deal. Now saying they will own the lot and have a 3/5/10 year plan....make your mind up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluffy Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, bwfcfan5 said: Howard was saying the deal was off a few hours ago. Not long before that saying that Basran didn’t have even the money necesssry for the initial deal. Now saying they will own the lot and have a 3/5/10 year plan....make your mind up.... To be pedantic he hasn't. He was simply answering my question as to why anyone would want to buy the club, not that it is specifically Basran buying the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyldesley_white Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Boo said: Weston Street, used to park there meself of. me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royal white Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, tyldesley_white said: me too Oooooooo Crown Paints parking friends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggyStardust Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, royal white said: Oooooooo Crown Paints parking friends Used to park in the streets behind Sunar Gaw. was always 50/50 if you had the correct number of windows when you returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Ratwhite Posted March 12, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Sluffy said: How would the consortium intend to recoup their investment and over what timescale? The Premier League riches seem beyond our reach unless substantial inward investment in to the club is made and even then promotion is by no means guaranteed. Investment in youth players for potential future sell-ons will take a number of years to come to fruition, and again not guaranteed to unearth a constant flow of Premier standard players for sale. Selling land or building won't help the club long term to develop and grow. I'm perplexed at why anyone would want to buy a club in so much debt like ours, so close to major established Premier clubs, but clearly people do, so what is the selling point in buying Bolton, which clearly I am missing? In one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckhurstwhite Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 On 02/02/2019 at 01:04, deane koontz said: gary megson is part of this consortium. Plus Owen Coyle dream team. Seriously WTF is going on my head hurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalfordOriginal Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 This thread has given me one thing.. I certainly will be avoiding Ayn Rand novels on the beach this summer! Interesting subplot is that all the posts by John Galt have been deleted by the user once the breach in NDA was called out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadRunnerFan Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, SalfordOriginal said: This thread has given me one thing.. I certainly will be avoiding Ayn Rand novels on the beach this summer! Interesting subplot is that all the posts by John Galt have been deleted by the user once the breach in NDA was called out The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Supporter Spider Posted March 12, 2019 Site Supporter Share Posted March 12, 2019 HANG THE FUCK ON JUST A MOMENT did Howard say that some EU money has been spent on BWFC?? thats going to upset a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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