Meanwhile in Ukraine

[SatanGreavsie]

17 minutes ago, kent_white said:

I expect that's the idea though! In reality - it doesn't really matter whether it's an ICBM or a different type of missile if one lands on your house. It's just a nod towards the threat of nuclear isn't it? 

Yeh but just choreographed. The Yanks knew from under the counter communications otherwise it would have risked setting of all sorts of nuc alerts falsely. Hence all the kerfuffles at embassies over the last couple of days, for show. "Let him have his tantrum and claim whatever he wants to claim by showing off a toy" will have been doctrine here.

[kent_white]

2 minutes ago, SatanGreavsie said:

Yeh but just choreographed. The Yanks knew from under the counter communications otherwise it would have risked setting of all sorts of nuc alerts falsely. Hence all the kerfuffles at embassies over the last couple of days, for show. "Let him have his tantrum and claim whatever he wants to claim by showing off a toy" will have been doctrine here.

I think you're probably right. Can you imagine the plumes of an ICBM being launched triggering early warning satellites in the US? 

I just can't see Putin taking that kind of risk without some type of alert being given in advance. 

[Ani]

I am hoping this is just both sides have one last Willy waving before realising there is no real winner so time to sit down and discuss settlement. 

[kent_white]

45 minutes ago, Ani said:

I am hoping this is just both sides have one last Willy waving before realising there is no real winner so time to sit down and discuss settlement. 

Quite possibly. The idea might be to let it look like we're at the brink and then people on both sides will be happy with any sort of deal. Even if it's unpalatable. And we can all day we've averted WW3 and call it a draw. 

Unless you're Ukrainian. 

[kent_white]

US now seem to be saying it was a ballistic missile but not an ICBM. 

I'm half way through digging my bloody fallout shelter here too! 

[Spider]

It’s all pointing to a big win for The Don in February.

[kent_white]

4 minutes ago, Spider said:

It’s all pointing to a big win for The Don in February.

Maybe he'll get his Nobel Peace Prize after all! 

[Spider]

19 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Maybe he'll get his Nobel Peace Prize after all! 

Nailed on.

Day one he’s sorting it but I think we can give him a month and be reasonable.

[PatrickBateman]

59 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Maybe he'll get his Nobel Peace Prize after all! 

They gave Obama one....

[Bertie]

52 minutes ago, PatrickBateman said:

They gave Obama one....

And Jimmy Carter.
 

Trump, Obama, Carter. 3 peas in a pod eh?  Oh, wait……

[Tonge moor green jacket]

3 hours ago, kent_white said:

US now seem to be saying it was a ballistic missile but not an ICBM. 

I'm half way through digging my bloody fallout shelter here too! 

Whatever distance their missile can cover is a bit moot really. 

Why use one over a shorter range job, that also has a big payload?

Only thing I can think of is if they wanted to launch it from a site out of range of ATACMS or storm shadow.

The shorter range ones are often launched from planes too, which presumably "extends" their range but makes it a bit more difficult to detect.

Anyway, there is now video purporting to show the storm shadows hitting their target.

Shows accuracy and effectiveness: might get a few more orders now. Was about to ask how MBDA shares had performed, but a quick look says they went up 1.95% in a day.

Edited November 21, 2024 by Tonge moor green jacket

[kent_white]

22 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Whatever distance their missile can cover is a bit moot really. 

Why use one over a shorter range job, that also has a big payload?

Only thing I can think of is if they wanted to launch it from a site out of range of ATACMS or storm shadow.

The shorter range ones are often launched from planes too, which presumably "extends" their range but makes it a bit more difficult to detect.

Anyway, there is now video purporting to show the storm shadows hitting their target.

Shows accuracy and effectiveness: might get a few more orders now. Was about to ask how MBDA shares had performed, but a quick look says they went up 1.95% in a day.

Putin is saying it's a new ballistic missile but not an ICBM.

[Tonge moor green jacket]

26 minutes ago, kent_white said:

Putin is saying it's a new ballistic missile but not an ICBM.

Given the US comments, it probably is.

Presumably an upgraded one.

Some of the photos we've seen in both Israel and Ukraine of downed missiles, we can see the sheer huge size of them.

These aren't intercontinental ones neither.

On the face of it, it wouldn't make much sense to use one, but this is Putin of course.

 

[Dimron]

2 hours ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Whatever distance their missile can cover is a bit moot really. 

Why use one over a shorter range job, that also has a big payload?

Only thing I can think of is if they wanted to launch it from a site out of range of ATACMS or storm shadow.

The shorter range ones are often launched from planes too, which presumably "extends" their range but makes it a bit more difficult to detect.

Anyway, there is now video purporting to show the storm shadows hitting their target.

Shows accuracy and effectiveness: might get a few more orders now. Was about to ask how MBDA shares had performed, but a quick look says they went up 1.95% in a day.

If it was an "Oreshnik", interception would be extremely difficult if not impossible as it travels at ten times the speed of sound. Not an ICBM as these are launched from silos and should such a launch be detected by western satellites we'll all now be under the table with paper bags over our heads

[Dimron]

In my humble opinion, this guy always gives a balanced view

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/21/ukraine-war-west-missiles-russia-putin

[Tonge moor green jacket]

1 hour ago, Dimron said:

If it was an "Oreshnik", interception would be extremely difficult if not impossible as it travels at ten times the speed of sound. Not an ICBM as these are launched from silos and should such a launch be detected by western satellites we'll all now be under the table with paper bags over our heads

If you're referring to the hypersonic glide vehicle carried by one of their ballistic missiles, then yes it would be very hard to intercept. (Indeed any hypersonic weapon is difficult to intercept)

The initial launch of a large ground launched vehicle should be detectable relatively easily, with all the available technology.

How that itself is dealt with depends upon availability of suitable defensive anti aircraft missiles. Wouldn't imagine Ukraine has much.

Becomes a very complex situation. 

Fwiw, whatever was used, you would imagine that they don't have a lot of them, and/or didn't want to give away too much detail to the west about what they actually have in their arsenal.

[Lt. Aldo Raine]

The Kremlin are well aware many in the West are terrified of a nuclear confrontation and are playing on those fears in the hope it pressures Western governments into withdrawing support for long-range strikes into Russian territory

Thankfully, Western governments are paying them no heed

[Traf]

On 18/11/2024 at 18:46, Gonk said:

I reckon Traf will be able to get you a package to Odessa now if you ask him nicely

I sent 2 weeks in Ukraine the year before COVID struck, split between Kyiv and Odessa, loved both of them but neither will ever be the same again sadly.

[Zico]

8 hours ago, Traf said:

I sent 2 weeks in Ukraine the year before COVID struck, split between Kyiv and Odessa, loved both of them but neither will ever be the same again sadly.

At least Pripyat should look the same

[tomski]

14 minutes ago, Zico said:

At least Pripyat should look the same

Not even sure @gonzo’s dad would book that trip

Edited November 22, 2024 by tomski

[Zico]

28 minutes ago, tomski said:

Not even sure @gonzo’s dad would book that trip

I'd love to have gone for a bit of dark tourism, and do the Chernobyl experience 

[Tonge moor green jacket]

11 hours ago, Lt. Aldo Raine said:

The Kremlin are well aware many in the West are terrified of a nuclear confrontation and are playing on those fears in the hope it pressures Western governments into withdrawing support for long-range strikes into Russian territory

Thankfully, Western governments are paying them no heed

We know Russian people are fed a "version" of events, but they can still see the numbers of their own dieing, will be getting some information from elsewhere, and maybe themselves also scared of nuclear conflict.

Can someone send Putin on holiday to Laos?

[Guest]

Just now, Tonge moor green jacket said:

We know Russian people are fed a "version" of events, but they can still see the numbers of their own dieing, will be getting some information from elsewhere, and maybe themselves also scared of nuclear conflict.

Can someone send Putin on holiday to Laos?

I would say now more than ever we can see quite clearly that people will believe what they want to. Not sure there is much place for evidence, fact or ‘truth’ in Russia or elsewhere. That era has gone now. Temporarily .

[Traf]

1 hour ago, Zico said:

I'd love to have gone for a bit of dark tourism, and do the Chernobyl experience 

I did all that too. 

I've actually spent a good while doing some dark tourism research and plan to launch a new offshoot to the regular travel business in 2025.

[Zico]

3 hours ago, Traf said:

I did all that too. 

I've actually spent a good while doing some dark tourism research and plan to launch a new offshoot to the regular travel business in 2025.

love a bit of it, off top of head done:

Chu Chi Tunnels
Hiroshima
Auschwitz
Oradone Sur Glane
Ground Zero
Westerplatte, Gdansk
New Orleans - did this guided walk where you found out about a lot of bad shit that went down over the years in the old town.  also did a segway that took us through some neighbourhoods that got ruined by Hurricane Katrina