Meanwhile in Israel

[London Wanderer]

35 minutes ago, Casino said:

Works for Israel

Nobody else

Open their borders & Palestinians have no hope of forming a state on their own land. I’ve honestly no idea why it’s so hard for people to grasp why their neighbours won’t let them in. Even if they did, many would refuse to go.

 Open the gates and you hand Israel the land

Edited February 13, 2025 by London Wanderer

[royal white]

14 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Two quite different situations & conflicts. No harm in comparing though.

If Europe or the UK taking refugees from Ukraine meant that their homeland was handed to Putin, then we’d resist & do otherwise. 

There are a number of reasons why Palestine’s neighbours won’t accept millions more. I’ve openly accepted on here that one of those reasons will be more militants in their country.

But they’re really is no denying that another reason is because Israel won’t allow them back & will claim the land for itself. It happened the last time Jordan & Lebanon took them in.

 An honest question here,  are you genuinely suggesting  that Israel’s policy not to let Palestinians return & illegally occupy land isn’t one of the reasons at play here? 

Yes it was you who brought up the comparison and isn’t it exactly what’s being planned in Ukraine right now?

Many refugees from many other countries will never return to their homeland, countries know this when accepting them.
 

Is it a reason? It’s a piss poor one if so as there’s kids literally dying on their doorstep. As Gonzo said….Bullshit .

Edited February 13, 2025 by royal white

[bolty58]

5 hours ago, Dimron said:

Heard it was all back on again... Hamas are releasing hostages as scheduled including this Saturday.

Would they have offered this without the threat of a twatting?

Anyway, we'll wait and see

They won't fuck with The Don.

If Doddery McSlumberland was still at the US helm Hamas wouldn't be releasing one.

[London Wanderer]

5 minutes ago, royal white said:

Yes it was you who brought up the comparison and isn’t it exactly what’s being planned in Ukraine right now?

Many refugees from many other countries will never return to their homeland, countries know this when accepting them. Is it a reason? It’s a piss poor one if so as there’s kids literally dying on their doorstep. As Gonzo said….Bullshit .

Well Gonzo said it’s bullshit, that’s that then 😉. He’s right on a lot of things, but not this one. 
 

It isn’t exactly what’s happening in Ukraine. It’s two very different places with different histories. And my point to TMJ wasn’t about the issue we’re discussing. 

Open all the borders and Israel is given the land and their extremist government is handed victory. Palestinians are prevented from creating their own state. Which is what the vast majority of them want. 
 

I’ve no idea why that’s seen as a piss poor reason. It’s clearly a huge factor here. 
 

Millions of Palestinians don’t want to leave. The conditions in the permanent shelter camps in Lebanon & Jordan are hardly brilliant.

Yes some will want to escape. But open the borders & many will still stay. They are determined to rebuild & have their own state in their homeland.

Why shouldn’t they be allowed that? 

 

 

[royal white]

2 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

Well Gonzo said it’s bullshit, that’s that then 😉. He’s right on a lot of things, but not this one. 
 

It isn’t exactly what’s happening in Ukraine. It’s two very different places with different histories. And my point to TMJ wasn’t about the issue we’re discussing. 

Open all the borders and Israel is given the land and their extremist government is handed victory. Palestinians are prevented from creating their own state. Which is what the vast majority of them want. 
 

I’ve no idea why that’s seen as a piss poor reason. It’s clearly a huge factor here. 
 

Millions of Palestinians don’t want to leave. The conditions in the permanent shelter camps in Lebanon & Jordan are hardly brilliant.

Yes some will want to escape. But open the borders & many will still stay. They are determined to rebuild & have their own state in their homeland.

Why shouldn’t they be allowed that? 

 

 

like many victims of war around  the world. 
 

Back to what I posted earlier. Is it ever looking like that’s going to happen? It doesn’t does it. So the reality is you’re going to end up with a lot more dead bodies. That’s just the harsh reality. 

[royal white]

A couple of good points here.

 

 

[London Wanderer]

2 minutes ago, royal white said:

like many victims of war around  the world. 
 

Back to what I posted earlier. Is it ever looking like that’s going to happen? It doesn’t does it. So the reality is you’re going to end up with a lot more dead bodies. That’s just the harsh reality. 

Of course

 The two state solution is possible with the right negotiation, even if it feels further away than before.

It’s Palestinian land. Even if they are forced to leave then they have every right to fight back to reclaim it. They’re fiercely determined to stay & millions want to.

Forcibly removing them creates far more problems for the neighbouring countries and risks many more dead bodies down the line. It could cause widespread escalation. 

 The idea that you open all the borders & people then live happily in peace is a pipe dream.

The closest we’ve ever come to peace in this conflict is when a two state solution was on the cards. 
 

Why shouldn’t Palestine be allowed to exist? You’ve not really given a valid reason here…

[royal white]

1 minute ago, London Wanderer said:

Of course

 The two state solution is possible with the right negotiation, even if it feels further away than before.

It’s Palestinian land. Even if they are forced to leave then they have every right to fight back to reclaim it. They’re fiercely determined to stay & millions want to.

Forcibly removing them creates far more problems for the neighbouring countries and risks many more dead bodies down the line. It could cause widespread escalation. 

 The idea that you open all the borders & people then live happily in peace is a pipe dream.

The closest we’ve ever come to peace in this conflict is when a two state solution was on the cards. 
 

Why shouldn’t Palestine be allowed to exist? You’ve not really given a valid reason here…

I’ve not once said they shouldn’t be allowed to exist, as you said it needs negotiation. We’ve been hearing this for years and nothing has changed, regardless of who is sat in the White House. 
 

Round and round they go, more dead bodies, more bombs, etc etc. As a dad I’d be pleading for other countries to take my missus and kids, (mind you I say that living in Walkden). I get the being proud of their land and wanting to make a home but I’m a realist and I wouldn’t want my family living like that. 

[London Wanderer]

6 minutes ago, royal white said:

I’ve not once said they shouldn’t be allowed to exist, as you said it needs negotiation. We’ve been hearing this for years and nothing has changed, regardless of who is sat in the White House. 
 

Round and round they go, more dead bodies, more bombs, etc etc. As a dad I’d be pleading for other countries to take my missus and kids, (mind you I say that living in Walkden). I get the being proud of their land and wanting to make a home but I’m a realist and I wouldn’t want my family living like that. 

😄
 

It sounds like you do get it then mate 👍
 

Millions of them are fiercely determined to live on their land & make a home of it. Even more so after the carnage & destruction. They don’t want to & shouldn’t be made to leave.

If you force them to leave against their will then you’re telling them they have no right to exist on their land. Everyone in Gaza has lost a loved one, yet that determination to exist remains. 
 

 

[royal white]

2 minutes ago, London Wanderer said:

😄
 

It sounds like you do get it then mate 👍
 

Millions of them are fiercely determined to live on their land & make a home of it. Even more so after the carnage & destruction. They don’t want to & shouldn’t be made to leave.

If you force them to leave against their will then you’re telling them they have no right to exist on their land. Everyone in Gaza has lost a loved one, yet that determination to exist remains. 
 

 

If I thought there was a chance it would happen there would be no argument. 
 

If….and it’s a big if, when the hostage deal is finalised who’s going to be in charge in Gaza? Is there a plan to get rid of Hamas? 

[London Wanderer]

9 hours ago, royal white said:

If I thought there was a chance it would happen there would be no argument. 
 

If….and it’s a big if, when the hostage deal is finalised who’s going to be in charge in Gaza? Is there a plan to get rid of Hamas? 

The important thing in all of this is that Hamas will go nowhere if Israel & the US refuse to acknowledge a two state solution. You deny a country of its right to exist & they are bound to resist & fight back. 

The gulf states have huge influence in the region. And Palestinians have a lot of support across the globe. The funds are there for them to rebuild without the US taking control.

Yes Hamas need to be removed. Things need to change at the top of Israel’s government too .

A two state solution gives you a better chance of removing Hamas.

It’s a solution that has huge support across many nations. Of course it’s possible. 

[Duck Egg]

22 hours ago, royal white said:

A couple of good points here.

 

 

Had his arse handed to him later though;

 

 

[royal white]

4 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

Had his arse handed to him later though;

 

 

Really? 

[Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Duck Egg said:

Had his arse handed to him later though;

 

 

Trump would've rolled over for Hitler in 1939, and so would his fans.

[Casino]

Monbiot is always good value

As an aside, why are the lefty BBC platforming GBeebies nationalists (im being generous)

[bolty58]

48 minutes ago, royal white said:

Really? 

No. Matt Goodwin was the only one talking sense.

Monbiot of the type who has guided the world to the mess we now see.

A vegan extremist of the 'far left'. 

Ignore.

[BobyBrno]

1 hour ago, Casino said:

Monbiot is always good value

As an aside, why are the lefty BBC platforming GBeebies nationalists (im being generous)

Yep. Seems to talk sense with a left leaning slant. I liked this though commenting on the expenses episode. 

 “it’s a distraction from the pretty catastrophic situation in which which we find ourselves,” he replied. “We have a chancellor and indeed a prime minister who have no vision at all apart from this thing called ‘growth’, GDP growth.”

Running out of friends it seems. 

[BobyBrno]

Hope the doctor who treats him is Jewish. 

[Spider]

Are they all friends again?

[London Wanderer]

6 hours ago, BobyBrno said:

Hope the doctor who treats him is Jewish. 

Getting treatment in hospital for being a massive racist

 Now there’s a new one

[London Wanderer]

12 hours ago, Cheese said:

Trump would've rolled over for Hitler in 1939, and so would his fans.

you can spot the Oswald Mosley Hitler appeasers on here a mile off as well

[London Wanderer]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/16/egypt-gaza-reconstruction-plan-hamas

Not perfect by any means

But already a much  better plan. With the support of the World Bank. 

Edited February 16, 2025 by London Wanderer

[Zico]

Iran is close enough to Israel

this can also be "meanwhile in the middle east" thread

 

[Zico]

British couple Craig and Lindsay Foreman charged with espionage after being detained in Iran

A British couple detained in Iran while on a round-the-world motorcycle trip have been charged with espionage.

Craig and Lindsay Foreman, both in their early fifties, were arrested last month and are being held in custody in Kerman, central Iran.

The pair were trying to reach Australia for a psychology research project asking people what constitutes a “good life”.

Iranian authorities alleged they had been “collecting information in different locations in the country”.

They crossed into Iran from Armenia on about December 30 and planned to reach Pakistan by 4 January.

Ms Foreman acknowledged on social media she was about to tackle the most “challenging — and, let’s be honest, slightly scary — sections of our journey: Iran and Pakistan”.

“Despite the advice of friends, family and the [Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office] we’ve chosen to keep moving forward,” she said on Instagram.

 

[Casino]

2 hours ago, Zico said:

 

“Despite the advice of the [Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office] we’ve chosen to keep moving forward,” she said on Instagram.

 

i find it difficult to give a fuck