London Wanderer Posted January 15 Posted January 15 8 hours ago, royal white said: Yep you can also get banned from United and Liverpool for singing “the sun was right” people are being banned for Naughty songs, I’m sure you’ve heard plenty over the years. The complexities are there’s likely to be violence, if that’s because muzzies in brum don’t like Jews or wiganers and Boltoners don’t like each other then so be it but it will happen, it’s up to the police to do their job and police it. How do you think the police go on when Rangers play Celtic 4 times a year? Exactly. What I said all along. And the reasons for that are fears over local extremists, some Maccabi fans looking for trouble & the added dimension of pro Palestine protesters looking to disrupt. Those complexities for a one off game really don’t compare in any way to a Bolton Wigan or United Liverpool match . And the answer is no. We haven’t seen a entire English club fan base banned in Europe for widespread racism 👍 Johnny from Salford getting a banning order isn’t the same. Quote
gonzo Posted January 15 Posted January 15 https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/brother-driver-killed-bolton-crash-33237122 Fair play to the kid Quote
royal white Posted January 15 Author Posted January 15 6 hours ago, London Wanderer said: Exactly. What I said all along. And the reasons for that are fears over local extremists, some Maccabi fans looking for trouble & the added dimension of pro Palestine protesters looking to disrupt. Those complexities for a one off game really don’t compare in any way to a Bolton Wigan or United Liverpool match . And the answer is no. We haven’t seen a entire English club fan base banned in Europe for widespread racism 👍 Johnny from Salford getting a banning order isn’t the same. And in reality that’s the reason the police cancelled it not the lies that they came up with and you fell for. It’s also violence, some games will always attract more, it’s bonkers that you think a “one off” game cant allow fans but games that continually turn out violence/arrests are allowed to do so year in year out. As for entire fan bases being banned for racism, MTA fans haven’t been banned yet and this was after the Villa game. Only one police force have prevented their fans attending in European competition. It’s not hard to work out why. Quote
kent_white Posted January 15 Posted January 15 3 minutes ago, royal white said: And in reality that’s the reason the police cancelled it not the lies that they came up with and you fell for. That's a bit harsh on those of us that took the authorities at their word. And I don't recall you saying this at the time (unless I've missed it). I just remember you saying it was anti Semitic. Which I still haven't seen any evidence of. So far what we've got is the head of the local police force - relying on AI to make a decision, and bullshitting about some intelligence he'd received from Dutch Police. Most probably because he wanted to avoid a massive kick off with his officers having to keep the peace. It's quite a jump from there to 'this was anti semitic' - which is what we were arguing about. Well I was anyway. I can't remember what everyone else was arguing about. Basically - at this stage what we have evidence of is probable incompetence. The fact the results of that incompetence was felt mainly by people from Israel doesn't make it anti-semetic. Apologies if I'm misrepresenting you here. But I thought that was the main thrust of your original argument? Quote
royal white Posted January 15 Author Posted January 15 1 minute ago, kent_white said: That's a bit harsh on those of us that took the authorities at their word. And I don't recall you saying this at the time (unless I've missed it). I just remember you saying it was anti Semitic. Which I still haven't seen any evidence of. So far what we've got is the head of the local police force - relying on AI to make a decision, and bullshitting about some intelligence he'd received from Dutch Police. Most probably because he wanted to avoid a massive kick off with his officers having to keep the peace. It's quite a jump from there to 'this was anti semitic' - which is what we were arguing about. Well I was anyway. I can't remember what everyone else was arguing about. Basically - at this stage what we have evidence of is probable incompetence. The fact the results of that incompetence was felt mainly by people from Israel doesn't make it anti-semetic. Apologies if I'm misrepresenting you here. But I thought that was the main thrust of your original argument? I’ve continually said that the match isn’t much different then other high profile games, the reason this one is different is because the away fans are from Israel/jewish. I 💯 stand by that. I also said its pathetic that in 2025 fans can’t attend a game because of where they’re from. I also a stand by that. I didn’t guess that the police were bull shitting, what really happened in Amsterdam was out there in the public domain a few of us on here obviously read up on that. The fact the PM hasn’t made a u turn on his claim that is was antisemitic tells you all you need to know 😉 Quote
deeane Koontz Posted January 15 Posted January 15 1 hour ago, gonzo said: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/brother-driver-killed-bolton-crash-33237122 Fair play to the kid Regarding dickhead dangerous drivers, I recall reading a case about one cunt who was also pissed up speeding down the wrong side of the road and ended up killing someone who was a passenger in a car in the opposite direction and seriously injuring another. He got just 4 years in prison and a 2 year driving ban. Even Ignoring the joke sentence, A 2 year ban? You should be banned from driving for life. Quote
kent_white Posted January 15 Posted January 15 20 minutes ago, royal white said: I’ve continually said that the match isn’t much different then other high profile games, the reason this one is different is because the away fans are from Israel/jewish. I 💯 stand by that. I also said its pathetic that in 2025 fans can’t attend a game because of where they’re from. I also a stand by that. I didn’t guess that the police were bull shitting, what really happened in Amsterdam was out there in the public domain a few of us on here obviously read up on that. The fact the PM hasn’t made a u turn on his claim that is was antisemitic tells you all you need to know 😉 Well the inquiry found there was no evidence of anti-Semitism. Starmer isn't daft. He's playing politics. The inquiry said the force made misleading statements through confirmation bias and carelessness rather than any deliberate distortion, and not through antisemitism. Nor was it due to bowing to political pressure from those in Birmingham angered by Israel's alleged genocide in Gaza Make of that what you will. PS - I'm pretty sure I know what you'll make of it! 😁 Quote
royal white Posted January 15 Author Posted January 15 9 minutes ago, kent_white said: Well the inquiry found there was no evidence of anti-Semitism. Starmer isn't daft. He's playing politics. The inquiry said the force made misleading statements through confirmation bias and carelessness rather than any deliberate distortion, and not through antisemitism. Nor was it due to bowing to political pressure from those in Birmingham angered by Israel's alleged genocide in Gaza Make of that what you will. PS - I'm pretty sure I know what you'll make of it! 😁 If WMP banned fans because they’re violent a large percentage of villas games would have no away fans. They were banned because of where they’re from and that’s shameful in 2025 Britain. Quote
royal white Posted January 15 Author Posted January 15 59 minutes ago, deeane Koontz said: Regarding dickhead dangerous drivers, I recall reading a case about one cunt who was also pissed up speeding down the wrong side of the road and ended up killing someone who was a passenger in a car in the opposite direction and seriously injuring another. He got just 4 years in prison and a 2 year driving ban. Even Ignoring the joke sentence, A 2 year ban? You should be banned from driving for life. Should be life bans for anyone caught drunk/drug driving. Also eye tests should be brought in every few years Quote
Sweep Posted January 15 Posted January 15 4 minutes ago, royal white said: Should be life bans for anyone caught drunk/drug driving. Also eye tests should be brought in every few years 100% agree The eye tests, certainly for old cunts especially. Mrs Sweep's Dad is in his 70s and blind as a bat, but still drives. He should have his licence taken off him. I refuse point blank to get it in the car with him. He's also been done for drink driving twice over the last 40 years or so apparently, the silly old codger. Surely once you reach that sort of age, every few years you should be made to do some sort of test, even if it was almost a reaction based "simulation" type test Quote
royal white Posted January 15 Author Posted January 15 18 minutes ago, Sweep said: 100% agree The eye tests, certainly for old cunts especially. Mrs Sweep's Dad is in his 70s and blind as a bat, but still drives. He should have his licence taken off him. I refuse point blank to get it in the car with him. He's also been done for drink driving twice over the last 40 years or so apparently, the silly old codger. Surely once you reach that sort of age, every few years you should be made to do some sort of test, even if it was almost a reaction based "simulation" type test An eye test should be done before you even have a lesson and then every few years. There must be 10s of thousands on the road with poor vision Quote
RONNIE PHILLIPS Posted January 15 Posted January 15 1 hour ago, royal white said: If WMP banned fans because they’re violent a large percentage of villas games would have no away fans. They were banned because of where they’re from and that’s shameful in 2025 Britain. They weren't banned because of where they are from, they were banned because certain members of the local population made it pretty clear what would happen if they weren't banned......that where the anti semitism comes into play. The authorities weren't displaying anti semitism, just bowing to those who do. Quote
London Wanderer Posted January 15 Posted January 15 If they didn’t have a reputation for having a significant number of racist hooligans in their midst they also wouldn’t have been banned. The latest Uefa ban is just further evidence of that. They were always going to bring some looking for a confrontation as well. It’s odd folk are only giving one reason where there is clearly more than one Quote
royal white Posted January 15 Author Posted January 15 6 minutes ago, London Wanderer said: If they didn’t have a reputation for having a significant number of racist hooligans in their midst they also wouldn’t have been banned. The latest Uefa ban is just further evidence of that. They were always going to bring some looking for a confrontation as well. It’s odd folk are only giving one reason where there is clearly more than one The latest UEFA ban is suspended. There’s more fans banned for tragedy chanting. I’m yet to see those clubs face UEFA bans Quote
deeane Koontz Posted January 15 Posted January 15 1 hour ago, royal white said: Should be life bans for anyone caught drunk/drug driving. Also eye tests should be brought in every few years Absolutely. Quote
RONNIE PHILLIPS Posted January 15 Posted January 15 41 minutes ago, London Wanderer said: If they didn’t have a reputation for having a significant number of racist hooligans in their midst they also wouldn’t have been banned. The latest Uefa ban is just further evidence of that. They were always going to bring some looking for a confrontation as well. It’s odd folk are only giving one reason where there is clearly more than one That first sentence is utter bollocks and you know it.....if they had brought a following of 100 Rabbis there still would have been trouble. They were banned and the local extremists still caused trouble outside the ground Quote
RONNIE PHILLIPS Posted January 15 Posted January 15 44 minutes ago, London Wanderer said: If they didn’t have a reputation for having a significant number of racist hooligans in their midst they also wouldn’t have been banned. The latest Uefa ban is just further evidence of that. They were always going to bring some looking for a confrontation as well. It’s odd folk are only giving one reason where there is clearly more than one And I for one am not saying it was the only reason.....what is odd though is that it seems to be the only reason you seemed to be uncomfortable with. Quote
London Wanderer Posted January 15 Posted January 15 8 minutes ago, RONNIE PHILLIPS said: That first sentence is utter bollocks and you know it.....if they had brought a following of 100 Rabbis there still would have been trouble. They were banned and the local extremists still caused trouble outside the ground 4 minutes ago, RONNIE PHILLIPS said: And I for one am not saying it was the only reason.....what is odd though is that it seems to be the only reason you seemed to be uncomfortable with. I’m not sure why you’ve started putting words in my mouth. Did the same last night. I’ve openly criticised people & institutions in the past for tiptoeing around serious issues in certain Muslim communities. Whether it be extremism, homophobia, sexism etc. It needs calling out & dealing with like it is in other sections of society. It doesn’t make me uncomfortable. WMP should have said we’re worried because radical Islamists will look to cause trouble. As we agree on though, it wasn’t the only reason. Huge problems of racism & anti Arabic rhetoric in Israeli football- which uefa are looking to investigate. This isn’t just a small number of fans. Some fanbases pride themselves on it , it’s part of their identity. Maccabi were the worst offenders last season & I stand by my comment that if they didn’t have so many racist hooligans in their midst, they wouldn’t have been banned. As WMP wouldn’t have had a leg to stand on. Quote
royal white Posted January 15 Author Posted January 15 14 minutes ago, London Wanderer said: I’m not sure why you’ve started putting words in my mouth. Did the same last night. I’ve openly criticised people & institutions in the past for tiptoeing around serious issues in certain Muslim communities. Whether it be extremism, homophobia, sexism etc. It needs calling out & dealing with like it is in other sections of society. It doesn’t make me uncomfortable. WMP should have said we’re worried because radical Islamists will look to cause trouble. As we agree on though, it wasn’t the only reason. Huge problems of racism & anti Arabic rhetoric in Israeli football- which uefa are looking to investigate. This isn’t just a small number of fans. Some fanbases pride themselves on it , it’s part of their identity. Maccabi were the worst offenders last season & I stand by my comment that if they didn’t have so many racist hooligans in their midst, they wouldn’t have been banned. As WMP wouldn’t have had a leg to stand on. Are racist hooligans worse than normal hooligans? Quote
Sweep Posted January 15 Posted January 15 14 minutes ago, royal white said: Are racist hooligans worse than normal hooligans? ChatGPT says they are 😉 It depends on what you mean by “worse,” but in most meaningful senses yes—racist hooligans are worse than “ordinary” hooligans. Here’s why: 1. Harm goes beyond violence or disorder Normal hooliganism (e.g., drunken fighting, vandalism) is harmful but usually situational and limited. Racist hooliganism adds ideological harm: it targets people for who they are, not what they did. That spreads fear to entire communities, not just the immediate victims. 2. Intent matters A non-racist hooligan may act out of anger, alcohol, or crowd mentality. A racist hooligan acts with deliberate hostility toward a group, often aiming to intimidate or exclude. That makes the behavior more morally serious and socially dangerous. 3. Wider social impact Racist actions reinforce discrimination, normalize hate, and can inspire copycat behavior. They undermine social cohesion and equality in ways ordinary hooliganism usually doesn’t. 4. Risk of escalation Racist hooliganism is more likely to connect with extremist movements and escalate into organized hate crimes or political violence. Important nuance This doesn’t mean “normal” hooliganism is harmless—it can still cause serious injury or death. In a specific incident, a non-racist hooligan could cause more immediate physical harm than a racist one. But as a category, racist hooliganism is more dangerous because of its broader and longer-lasting effects. In short: All hooliganism is bad, but racist hooliganism is worse because it combines violence or disorder with hate, intimidation, and societal damage. Quote
royal white Posted January 15 Author Posted January 15 1 minute ago, Sweep said: ChatGPT says they are 😉 It depends on what you mean by “worse,” but in most meaningful senses yes—racist hooligans are worse than “ordinary” hooligans. Here’s why: 1. Harm goes beyond violence or disorder Normal hooliganism (e.g., drunken fighting, vandalism) is harmful but usually situational and limited. Racist hooliganism adds ideological harm: it targets people for who they are, not what they did. That spreads fear to entire communities, not just the immediate victims. 2. Intent matters A non-racist hooligan may act out of anger, alcohol, or crowd mentality. A racist hooligan acts with deliberate hostility toward a group, often aiming to intimidate or exclude. That makes the behavior more morally serious and socially dangerous. 3. Wider social impact Racist actions reinforce discrimination, normalize hate, and can inspire copycat behavior. They undermine social cohesion and equality in ways ordinary hooliganism usually doesn’t. 4. Risk of escalation Racist hooliganism is more likely to connect with extremist movements and escalate into organized hate crimes or political violence. Important nuance This doesn’t mean “normal” hooliganism is harmless—it can still cause serious injury or death. In a specific incident, a non-racist hooligan could cause more immediate physical harm than a racist one. But as a category, racist hooliganism is more dangerous because of its broader and longer-lasting effects. In short: All hooliganism is bad, but racist hooliganism is worse because it combines violence or disorder with hate, intimidation, and societal damage. So a guy singing a song is worse than a fan attacking a player on the pitch. 😂😂 shove your AI Quote
kent_white Posted January 15 Posted January 15 3 hours ago, royal white said: If WMP banned fans because they’re violent a large percentage of villas games would have no away fans. They were banned because of where they’re from and that’s shameful in 2025 Britain. They were banned because an incompetent copper didn't want to have to deal with the likely consequences and lied about the intelligence he'd received. Repeatedly. Either way it's a shit show. I agree - if there was no credible intelligence about a specific threat - they should have been allowed to travel. Whether that's because he's anti-Semitic or just incompetent is another matter. There's just no evidence to say it's the former as things stand. Anyway - justice has prevailed. There is now nothing for us to be concerned about in the middle east! 😁 Quote
Tonge moor green jacket Posted January 15 Posted January 15 (edited) Right, so the PCC for the West Midlands is/was a former member of Momentum, and a Corbynite. Now reportedly found to have made antisemitic comments previously. Antisemitism nothing to do with the decision of course! Now then, despite her assertion that she can't sack the PCC, the home secretary does have the power to change the rules such that she does have the power to sack the chief constable- after all, it was a previous government that took it away. She (the government) have already announced that PCCs will be scrapped at the end of this elected term (2028), so she has already flexed her muscles with regard to this. Moreover, I'd refer everyone to have a look at this: https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06104/SN06104.pdf In November, this paper was published with regards to PCCs. Look at section 3.3, on page 33. It clearly states that the home secretary does have the power to direct the PCC to do something where applicable. If she has now lost confidence in the Chief Constable, then why not direct the PCC to sack him? Why not initiate proceedings to remove the PCC given the revelations about him (assuming they're true of course)? Fwiw, I have a small degree of sympathy for the chief constable as no doubt he's the victim of intense politics, but he should have grown a pair, and said "no" if he was being forced down a route he didn't want to go. Nevertheless he's been weak, evasive and, together with colleagues may have lied. He, and the PCC should go. No doubt about it. Edited January 15 by Tonge moor green jacket Quote
London Wanderer Posted January 15 Posted January 15 1 hour ago, Winchester White said: Fuck's sake LW! I’m sorry mate 😄 Quote
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