No Henderson in the provisional squad 

34 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Can't agree with the last bit, at the time perhaps Croatia has too much experience, and getting to the semi wasn't too bad.

Thing is though- the football then was superior to this. Despite good players, we've gone backwards. 

At risk of going over old (fuck me how is it 6 years) ground. He clearly did well to get to the SF of a World Cup and that can’t be taken away from him. But even then his midfield selection was catastrophic - he started a midfield 3 of Henderson, Alli and Lingard, in a 532 with 2 forwards ahead of them, against a Croatian midfield including Modric in his prime and Rakitic. Alli and Lingard have never played CM in their life and he thought he knew best in a World Cup semi final. 

We’ll still win the group but play like the first 2 games and we’ll be out in the knockouts as soon as we face anyone even slightly decent.

Bit of a conundrum for Southgate now.

He has to change something, it’s glaringly obvious things aren’t working.

But how much does he change it? And what are those changes? Too many permutations of what he could do. Some people would rather see Wharton or Mainoo instead of Trent. Others would rather Bellingham drop deeper and Foden play as a 10… Others might want to drop Foden and play Gordon 

The players and the manager have both said they’re not instructed to sit off after we go 1-0 up. If that’s the case then that’s even more concerning.

17 minutes ago, Dr. Feelgood said:

Well, the BBC studio team have changed their tune. "Foden as 10, Kane must stop coming back so much, drop TAA & play Bellingham as a 6".

Yes. Quite.

TAA should be nowhere near any England squad, he's fucking shit, unless he's playing as a wingback (and we don't, and won't play with wingbacks). He's no midfielder that's for sure, and even as a RB in a flatback 4 he's dogshit. Hopefully he'll get heavily injured in training this week, so we don't have to see him again this tournament.

I'd honestly rather have Henderson in the team, in that position, than him

38 minutes ago, Zico said:

BUT WE'RE TOP OF THE GROUP 

Or something 

I liked that he changed the ineffective forwards but not that he left Palmer and Gordon on the bench 

The TAA experiment has to stop but Gallagher can't be starting

Fuck knows what to expect from the line up from the next game 

I'm sure we'll limp our way to victory and top the group though

Madison sat at home watching Gallagher and TAA ahead of him, its just odd.

1 minute ago, Johnnyrotten said:

Madison sat at home watching Gallagher and TAA ahead of him, its just odd.

A big wide open left side with nobody in it and Grealish sat in Ibiza drinking cocktails.

There's nobody who wants to retain the ball.

14 minutes ago, gonzo said:

It's like it's a big shock to the world that Kane is actually a number 10 and has been playing like this for Spurs and Bayern for the past 4 seasons.

Why the manager has all of sudden decided to ignore this and play with nobody around him or on the overlap is a total fucking mystery.

We are starting the game with a bank of 6 defenders, 3 no 10s and a winger.

Kane summed it up. They haven't got the foggiest idea what it is they are meant to be doing. 

If Kane is coming deep and playing as a 10 there's simply no room for 2 other No 10s. 

Get Bellingham back in with Rice and run the show like Gerrard or Bryan Robson. Get some fucker up with Kane to run in behind, even if it's Watkins.

And get a fucking rocket up their arses.

We just play so risk averse too.

it seems we’re totally content to just say “ok if you have the ball, you can play in our half and we will sit deep. Until you make a mistake”

while if we have the ball we say “ok we will pass the ball in your half as safely as possible until you make a mistake”

 

we’re neither countering teams nor dominating the ball. We’ve just shoehorned as many of our best players into the team as possible and hoped it works, which it doesn’t. 
 

As you say - Kane plays more like a CAM as striker, Foden plays more like a CAM from the left. Bellingham has no space so is dropping deeper anyway. Trent therefore has no space or players to pass the ball to. 

Edited June 20, 20242 yr by Mantra

13 minutes ago, gonzo said:

It's like it's a big shock to the world that Kane is actually a number 10 and has been playing like this for Spurs and Bayern for the past 4 seasons.

Why the manager has all of sudden decided to ignore this and play with nobody around him or on the overlap is a total fucking mystery.

We are starting the game with a bank of 6 defenders, 3 no 10s and a winger.

Kane summed it up. They haven't got the foggiest idea what it is they are meant to be doing. 

If Kane is coming deep and playing as a 10 there's simply no room for 2 other No 10s. 

Get Bellingham back in with Rice and run the show like Gerrard or Bryan Robson. Get some fucker up with Kane to run in behind, even if it's Watkins.

And get a fucking rocket up their arses.

Aye.

The lack of support is pathetic. 

I reckon most agree that Bellingham and rice a fine, and don't need a babysitter. 

Southgate saying he's looking at a replacement for Phillips- fuck me, even if it was necessary, he's had loads of time to get it sorted.

Isn't necessary though.

Shite.

2 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Aye.

The lack of support is pathetic. 

I reckon most agree that Bellingham and rice a fine, and don't need a babysitter. 

Southgate saying he's looking at a replacement for Phillips- fuck me, even if it was necessary, he's had loads of time to get it sorted.

Isn't necessary though.

Shite.

And even if you did, which you could argue you’d want against the better teams (not Serbia and Denmark FFS), you’ve got one in Mainoo who’s playing week in week out for United in that position. Granted he’s young and inexperienced but he’s played more Prem matches in CM than TAA has.

5 minutes ago, Mantra said:

Trent therefore has no space or players to pass the ball to. 

He was awful first half, walked around for 45 mins while Rice had to be preoccupied holding his hand when we were out of possession. Ironically, when he was hooked he'd just shown a bit more energy with a decent run and played a good ball to Saka. 

If he's going to be on the field it needs to be when the runners like Watkins and Bowen are on, to give him areas to aim his Hollywood balls into. He's a liability though if we lose the ball and Denmark targeted him on the press 

1 hour ago, Cheese said:

We won against Serbia.

Fortuitously.

 

 

1 hour ago, bolty58 said:

Correct. For Gods sake man go. Get a proper footballing man in instead of a virtue signalling automaton.

I am seeing nothing different from when we butchered the Euro final using the same tactics.

Turgid dross. Exactly as predicted to my nephews who were at the game. Even predicted the score correctly but like an idiot didn't get on at 3.40 the draw.

Southgate out.

This should be no surprise to anyone. They are set up not to lose. They play in a rigid system, but also with fear and without expression. I agree he should have gone after Italy. Playing the West Ham lad whilst talent sitting on the bench and Grealish in Ibiza sums it all up for me.

10 minutes ago, Eddie said:

And even if you did, which you could argue you’d want against the better teams (not Serbia and Denmark FFS), you’ve got one in Mainoo who’s playing week in week out for United in that position. Granted he’s young and inexperienced but he’s played more Prem matches in CM than TAA has.

Yep.

It's simply soul destroying, seeing decent players listless, clueless and at times gutless.

One thing I did take from the comments afterwards was the one about building a togetherness- and one of them said go out for a beer together, or some such.

A laugh, followed by a "well..yes".

I wonder if the pundits are getting some info from the camp that they're (correctly) sitting on.

The players just look totally brassed off. I looked at their faces walking out and not one of them looked happy more like they were heading to the firing squad. On the field it was like watching us just pass pass pass at the back and little or no attempt to move forward, no cohesion and actually no confidence. The pace is just so slow with no build up in tempo. Like others I fear the knock outs because if we don’t improve big style we’ll be out first match.

Scary how much better the Spaniards and Italians are than us with the ball

It’s unbalanced. Nothing progressive/attacking on the left. 

Needed Gordon or Grealish from Ibiza.

Why have we not got another left footed left back in the squad rather than the injured Shaw? It’s not like it’s League 1 making do. There’s 70 million English people to choose from.

There’s that Palace left back isn’t there?

In fact we should just have taken all Palaces English players, they might have gelled better than that lot today

 

33 minutes ago, Tonge moor green jacket said:

Southgate saying he's looking at a replacement for Phillips - fuck me, even if it was necessary, he's had loads of time to get it sorted.

I did a double-take when he said that. He's left better options at home.

Same with thinking Gallagher is your great creative hope having left Maddison & Grealish on a beach somewhere.

Kalvin. Phillips.

No danger of not topping the group but on what we’ve seen i can’t see past QF

Gallagher is England's George Thomason, sent on to 'give us energy' blunders into a few tackles and gets a yellow card after five minutes

The issue of replacing Phillips I can see to a point, if Southgate is wedded to having the double pivot that, to be fair, worked well for us previously. Rice is restricted and unhappy at minute, having to hold TAA's hand instead of having someone he can trust to cover him effectively if he had a venture forward. 

Clutching at straws but in last euros we struggled to beat Croatia first game then drew with Scotland 0-0 then ended up in final.

 

5 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Clutching at straws but in last euros we struggled to beat Croatia first game then drew with Scotland 0-0 then ended up in final.

 

We didn't look this clueless and lifeless in either of those 😑

Assuming he goes in a few week, its another 2 years before we play a game that even matters.  The time to get a proper manager in was this season, culminating in tournament football.  The money the FA gives to a bloke to get Premiership standard players to be good enough to beat the Swedens, Norways, Andorras etc to qualify for tournaments is a joke.  And when we get there we have qualification for the 2nd phase handed to us on a plate with easy draws (have we ever had the inconvenience of being in a group of death?).  

14 minutes ago, ianofcleveleys said:

Gallagher is England's George Thomason, sent on to 'give us energy' blunders into a few tackles and gets a yellow card after five minute

Listened to the Totally Football podcast other day describing Gallagher coming on v Serbia as a programmed substitution like he was coming on around that time regardless of the game position.

Fuck me that was even more apparent tonight, was basically an auto sub!

2 hours ago, radcliffe white said:

Get palmer on ffs 

this one would do a better job than that lot tonight