Exeter City (H)

[batton carrier]

8 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Watching Liverpool today. Fast pinged balls from defence to attack, running and driving at defenders, 3 on 3 every attack.

We spend that long fucking about we are so high up the pitch but face a back 11 having to thread through the eye of a needle.

We just don't do stuff quick enough.

Spot on

We spend to much time fucking thinking.

 

[Mounts Kipper]

15 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Watching Liverpool today. Fast pinged balls from defence to attack, running and driving at defenders, 3 on 3 every attack.

We spend that long fucking about we are so high up the pitch but face a back 11 having to thread through the eye of a needle.

We just don't do stuff quick enough.

We’d be better using Liverpool style  tactics rather than Man City. Think they’d work miles better at this level. League one defenders prefer the ball shunted side to side in front of them rather than dealing with balls played in quickly, wingers whipping in crosses and having to play against long balls while being turned and trying to defend second ball runners. 

[Eddie]

17 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Watching Liverpool today. Fast pinged balls from defence to attack, running and driving at defenders, 3 on 3 every attack.

We spend that long fucking about we are so high up the pitch but face a back 11 having to thread through the eye of a needle.

We just don't do stuff quick enough.

Intensity.

A rare beast in our team, usually seen for 15-20 minute periods every 4th or 5th game. Our whole setup is based around slow, controlled, keep the ball (so they can’t score, ha), methodical. I’m a broken record but it makes it so hard to switch it on when needed, drains the life out of a fanbase and feeds the opposition when they knick it / a pass goes astray.

Evatt’s philosophy at the start was around fitness, players wouldn’t play until they got up to the fitness required for this team, you ran and ran and ran, even when the half time whistle went you ran off the pitch. We were supposed to run teams ragged, we’d outlast them due to the possession but also the constant movement. Now, we keep the ball but at a snails pace, the opposition don’t need to move and so they are never warn down - it’s a completely different possession stat compared to what we used to have.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Watching Liverpool today. Fast pinged balls from defence to attack, running and driving at defenders, 3 on 3 every attack.

We spend that long fucking about we are so high up the pitch but face a back 11 having to thread through the eye of a needle.

We just don't do stuff quick enough.

Thought the same.  But then Liverpool press very high to win the ball and also have bags on pace on the counter.

Teams press us and we can’t play through it and our pressing doesn’t win the ball very often. 

[SalCity Biggie]

Liverpool also played 4231 today and they looked really good too

[Wanderlust]

There's some madness on here.

4212 - doesn't work for me as  we tend to do better with 10 outfield players

"Sheehan can drop back and pick it up" - by which time the opposition defence have dug trenches, set up machine gun emplacements and mined the 18 yard line.

We've bought attacking players and have borrowed a midfield ball winner. We should use them - apart from Schon who doesn't look like he could beat an egg, let alone the opposition defender. George, Matete and Demps can compete for midfield control and then mix and match up top

Baxter

3 CBs

JDC  Matete George Tutu

Demps  + Collins or McAtee if he gets his finger out

Dion or Vic or McAtee or Collins up front - whoever is willing to occupy two defenders and stay in the general area of their goal.

Way I see it we've recruited to be an attacking team but we have to be solid in the middle so we can afford to go with WBs, relieve folk from their duty covering for Sheehan and "take the shackles off" - even if they're JDC or Williams standard and we have to wean ourselves off trying to play like City. Power and pace please.

 

 

[Rizlar]

Most team now play 4-2-3-1 but we can discuss the finer points of formations and tactics but doesn’t make a jot of difference IE will not change his thinking don’t forget he said he was tweaking his system so what did he do lose a midfielder and replace with a striker and it’s made it worse , as a politician once famously said this lady is not for turning and IE is doing the same ! 

[Mounts Kipper]

37 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

There's some madness on here.

4212 - doesn't work for me as  we tend to do better with 10 outfield players

"Sheehan can drop back and pick it up" - by which time the opposition defence have dug trenches, set up machine gun emplacements and mined the 18 yard line.

We've bought attacking players and have borrowed a midfield ball winner. We should use them - apart from Schon who doesn't look like he could beat an egg, let alone the opposition defender. George, Matete and Demps can compete for midfield control and then mix and match up top

Baxter

3 CBs

JDC  Matete George Tutu

Demps  + Collins or McAtee if he gets his finger out

Dion or Vic or McAtee or Collins up front - whoever is willing to occupy two defenders and stay in the general area of their goal.

Way I see it we've recruited to be an attacking team but we have to be solid in the middle so we can afford to go with WBs, relieve folk from their duty covering for Sheehan and "take the shackles off" - even if they're JDC or Williams standard and we have to wean ourselves off trying to play like City. Power and pace please.

 

 

I agree… we need to sacrifice Sheehan. And for me Vic has to start as CF… alongside Dion. I’d play 3 in the middle, 2 up top…. In a 3-5-2. Sadly this means Collins and Mcatee are benched. 

Edited September 1, 2024 by Mounts Kipper

[ianofcleveleys]

There are top sides that play with a three up front, the difference between them and us is that the middle one is a focal point with some physical stature and aerial threat, while the wide men want to face the goal and run at people. We have none of that.

Those sides also use their aggressive press as a means of creating scoring opportunities, we just keep hold of it and knock it around ponderously 

[JimmyRiddle]

22 minutes ago, ianofcleveleys said:

There are top sides that play with a three up front, the difference between them and us is that the middle one is a focal point with some physical stature and aerial threat, while the wide men want to face the goal and run at people. We have none of that.

Those sides also use their aggressive press as a means of creating scoring opportunities, we just keep hold of it and knock it around ponderously 

Sounds remarkably like having Davies upfront and Diouf and Stelios either side!! 

4-5-1 Defending 4-3-3 Attacking. Rocket science it's not.

 

[Ryan]

1 hour ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I agree… we need to sacrifice Sheehan. And for me Vic has to start as CF… alongside Dion. I’d play 3 in the middle, 2 up top…. In a 3-5-2. Sadly this means Collins and Mcatee are benched. 

I don't necessarily disagree, but this means we have spent almost £2m on a couple of players who don't get in our best 11.

[Wanderlust]

It's the midfield triangle that both drives and protects attacking teams like Liverpool - the three always have 2 CMs and one slightly in front in a 10 role with 2 holding behind but they are free to take advantage of space so if one pushes on to support the WBs and the strikers, the other two drop in to cover. But to play that system you have to have 3 athletes that can both attack and defend as necessary. Out of possession the WBs drop back to protect the wings and we have at least two of the three protecting the centre before they even get anywhere near the back 3 or 4 - works for any system.

Matete, George and Demps can do that for us - with Demps predominantly at the point of the triangle, but dropping in if e.g. Matete surges forward as he does when there's space.

Get those three working in tandem and we'll be very competitive.

[frank_spencer]

Collins has to start along side Dion.

McAtee or Dempsey behind.

Go back to the system that had us top of the shop

[Zog1]

Again the issue isn't really the formation or even who's being picked necessarily, although that doesn't help. The issue is the actual structure of the play, the nature of the indiviual roles, the movement and interactions between players, it's all broken. IE wants to ape Pepe but he's only really getting the surface level stuff, there's so much in those interactions between players, things that look effortless and might only happen once, could have been worked on for months by the coaching team. IE just doesn't have the skill to translate that and him trying to ape a manager with many times his ability is hurting us massively. He needs to go, for his and our sake.

Edited September 2, 2024 by Zog1
-

[ianofcleveleys]

8 hours ago, Ryan said:

I don't necessarily disagree, but this means we have spent almost £2m on a couple of players who don't get in our best 11.

That's a question the board might well be asking Evatt if the 3-4-3 experiment is binned, having indulged him financially as they've done. I can see us going back to 2 up front and a week to week chop and change from Vic and Dion to Vic and Aaron, to Aaron and Dion etc etc. 

Could certainly see why Collins was brought in, no problem with it and he did well enough last season once he settled in. He looks confused and lost in the current set up though. McAtee I don't get the premise behind, at least up to now. 

[Lancaster18]

10 hours ago, Wanderlust said:

There's some madness on here.

4212 - doesn't work for me as  we tend to do better with 10 outfield players

"Sheehan can drop back and pick it up" - by which time the opposition defence have dug trenches, set up machine gun emplacements and mined the 18 yard line.

We've bought attacking players and have borrowed a midfield ball winner. We should use them - apart from Schon who doesn't look like he could beat an egg, let alone the opposition defender. George, Matete and Demps can compete for midfield control and then mix and match up top

Baxter

3 CBs

JDC  Matete George Tutu

Demps  + Collins or McAtee if he gets his finger out

Dion or Vic or McAtee or Collins up front - whoever is willing to occupy two defenders and stay in the general area of their goal.

Way I see it we've recruited to be an attacking team but we have to be solid in the middle so we can afford to go with WBs, relieve folk from their duty covering for Sheehan and "take the shackles off" - even if they're JDC or Williams standard and we have to wean ourselves off trying to play like City. Power and pace please.

 

 

No width and team presses up and marks the midfield leaving the cb’s with the ball as they know it’s slow with no where to pass it too. Then it’s 10 behind the ball.

we can’t move the ball out quickly with 5 at the back… wingbacks we’ve got don’t push on enough for the system to work.

[onefinfrandsen]

10 hours ago, Mounts Kipper said:

I agree… we need to sacrifice Sheehan. And for me Vic has to start as CF… alongside Dion. I’d play 3 in the middle, 2 up top…. In a 3-5-2. Sadly this means Collins and Mcatee are benched. 

I’d agree with benching McAtee and Collins, no coincidence our best performance so far was Shrewsbury when they were subs. Like to see tutu and cogley bombing forward as wingbacks, get back to the IE blueprint.

[Wanderlust]

If the whole team can be more competitive by e.g. solidifying the midfield 3 what does it matter if McAtee, Collins or anyone for that matter are benched? Evatt will use anyway subs and players will get injuries but more importantly than anything it will bring back some genuine competition for places and eliminate the apparent complacency that comes about when players are picked week in week out.

We've signed players but that shouldn't give them the right to be guaranteed a starting spot - that right has to be won by performances otherwise it's not a "squad" - it's a team with reserves.

I'd "bench" Santos after his recent performances for example. It would give someone else a chance to prove themselves and give Santos a chance to wobble his head and come back more focused and determined.

[Ryan]

45 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

If the whole team can be more competitive by e.g. solidifying the midfield 3 what does it matter if McAtee, Collins or anyone for that matter are benched? Evatt will use anyway subs and players will get injuries but more importantly than anything it will bring back some genuine competition for places and eliminate the apparent complacency that comes about when players are picked week in week out.

We've signed players but that shouldn't give them the right to be guaranteed a starting spot - that right has to be won by performances otherwise it's not a "squad" - it's a team with reserves.

I'd "bench" Santos after his recent performances for example. It would give someone else a chance to prove themselves and give Santos a chance to wobble his head and come back more focused and determined.

I agree that a big fee alone shouldn't guarantee anybody games and that they have to earn it. My issue is if the players he has brought in are not part of our best 11 in terms of ability, then it's not a great look.

£2m is a lot of money for any team in League One (apart from Brum) to spend on squad players. I think as an investor I would be questioning why that money couldn't have been spent on players that clearly improve the starting 11. If he gets results it obviously matters a lot less, but even then it would make me a bit more reluctant to back him heavily again in future windows. Just my two cents, I'm probably talking absolute bollocks.

[Johnnyrotten]

We are struggling at the moment, it seems unbelievable to go with one hand tied behind our back by playing without Collins.  Last season we were scored in every home game he played in, we didn't lose any and anyone attending could surely agree that the main two consistent attacking influences were Collins and Maghoma post-Christmas.

We've lost one of those two through nobody's fault, god help us if we choose to lose the other from the starting line up.  That went well on Saturday (not suggesting dropping our best attacker was the only factor BTW).

As for the performance at Shrewsbury, as stated at the time by many, they were beyond bad, we could have put any 11 out to beat them, and that's not ignoring that fantastic performance by Tomo.  We'll have to listen to the same nonsense when we beat Barrow - let's stick with that team/formation etc - then reality dawns when we play a real L1 team.

[Wanderlust]

38 minutes ago, Ryan said:

I agree that a big fee alone shouldn't guarantee anybody games and that they have to earn it. My issue is if the players he has brought in are not part of our best 11 in terms of ability, then it's not a great look.

£2m is a lot of money for any team in League One (apart from Brum) to spend on squad players. I think as an investor I would be questioning why that money couldn't have been spent on players that clearly improve the starting 11. If he gets results it obviously matters a lot less, but even then it would make me a bit more reluctant to back him heavily again in future windows. Just my two cents, I'm probably talking absolute bollocks.

Nah - you make a fair point, however I don't think the permanent signings lack ability and I do think there's every chance of them coming good - in fact I'd argue that Tutu already has shown what he can do along with the loanee Matete.

I just think that Forino, McAtee and Schon are not quite up to speed/have not gelled with their teammates yet so we should start with the best we currently have and make them fight their way into the picture coming off the bench for now - with Santos and Sheehan also being given some reset time.

[Mantra]

.                         Baxter;

.   JDC,       Toal,       Johnston,      Schon

.               Matete Thomason

.  Tutu.               McAtee                Collins

.                         Charles

Drop Santos and Sheehan till they find their heads again.

 

[Underpants]

19 hours ago, gonzo said:

Watching Liverpool today. Fast pinged balls from defence to attack, running and driving at defenders, 3 on 3 every attack.

We spend that long fucking about we are so high up the pitch but face a back 11 having to thread through the eye of a needle.

We just don't do stuff quick enough.

Do we have personal to play the "Liverpool way"? I'm thinking not. But yes, the system we do employ is predictable and frustratingly pedestrian.

[Mounts Kipper]

1 hour ago, Underpants said:

Do we have personal to play the "Liverpool way"? I'm thinking not. But yes, the system we do employ is predictable and frustratingly pedestrian.

We ain’t got the personnel to play Pep way…. Poor imitation of Pep style helps our opponents, think that’s now conclusively proven. He has to shake it up… or he’s toast. 

[gonzo]

Its a curse on football. Watching Southampton commit suicide in every game so far this season confirms it.

Pep not only has created the best team in world football playing his style but he's managed to fuck a shit load of other clubs over that try and copy him.

It's like magic. There's only him can cast the spell. The rest just commit football suicide under the pep curse.